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Thread: My activities, character distorted on CaliforniaCCW.org forum.

  1. #1
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Admin

    (1)Yes we had someone here who was in that confrontational group, and in fact would try to wear shirts with a strongly contrasting color so no one could fail to notice that he was open carrying and not in a uniform. And that was in California, in a rural part. Does not do anything good for gun owners, in my opinion.

    Here in CA, it is only culturally acceptable for people in uniform (LEOs, guards, etc) to open carry, or people who are obviously engaged in some activity like hunting or on their own land in a remote area.

    ***

    And it's not exactly a hornet's nest, I just think people here got a bit upset (2)the last time it came up because the person bringing it up was very strongly in the "it's a right so I'll do it" camp, to the extent that he tried to get his sheriff to issue an open carry permit to him. He was denied; those permits are never issued in California. It is something which can be discussed intelligently, but not with someone like that.

    ***

    Yes indeed, there is an OC permit available in counties with pop < 200k. I think it may be an endorsement on an regular CCW perhaps. Or maybe it's a different form. Anyway I think with this OC permit you can open-carry loaded anywhere in the county of issuance. But as the Squirrel says, it is also my understanding that these are never ever issued. (3) If you read the open carry forums, there is a guy in Shasta County who has been open carrying, trying to be conspicuous about it, and asking his sheriff for such a permit. His sheriff has declined repeatedly. I personally am not into "I have the right to" style activism, at least not in this context, but to each his own.
    I dont come to this forum very often, and when I do, I seldom sign in because it has been made abundantly clear my presence here is not welcome or desired.

    Yes, I am the poster from Shasta County who has open carried in unincorporated territory.

    I'm posting here to set the record straight tonight as the Administrator is misrepresenting me and my activities.

    (1) I believe that neither what I have endevoured nor what I have posted about my experiences has been confrontational. And to my recollection, it was about 4 or 5 posters from this forum that badgered me, called me 'stupid, deserving to be shot on sight, and derided me in various and sundry ways. If advocating being openly armed is confrontational, then advocating concealing your arms must mean you're duplicitous.

    (2) I have not yet tried to obtain a license to carry 'loaded and exposed'. The only thing that I have tried to get from the Sheriff's Office was the application for an amendment of a CCW license. I have requested this piece of paper twice, and was declined. It was explained to me that that application does not leave the Sheriff's Office and must be filled out at the time of the amendment.

    This "it's a right so I'll do it" camp you refer to is populated by fellas like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and other pro-gun patriots. It's not a bad group once you have gotten over your fear of what you think your government will do to you.

    (3) I have not requested a license to carry 'loaded and exposed' from the Sheriff yet. And having not yet asked, I have also not been 'denied repeatedly'.

    Please, Admin- Do not further discredit yourself by misrepresenting me or my efforts. I would do you no such dishonor.

    This thread and the content of my post for convenience and redundancy are linked at the 'California' forum on OpenCarry.org
    http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/45/3384.page#58836

    For informational purposes only. Please- do not respond on the CaliforniaCCW.org site.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I responded anyway to bring up the legal issues involving open carry. I did not bring up any political issues. I'm rather dry in my delivery, and push out facts. That's it.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I don't really get the Anti OC crowd. Not saying everyone should OC but the one's that are so vehement against OC'er's. I guess they are really part of the PC crowd but happen to be gun owners.

    Don't let the bastards get you down. You are doing a great thing out there.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    We are not Anti OC in Californiaccw.org

    It is a concealed carry forum, and thats where our focus is.

    Since the area's of california where you can legally open carry are so limited, it's a fight that the majority of the population are unaffected by.

    There are almost no uncorporated areas of LA and Orange County, and those two areas alone account for 1/3 of the population of the state.

    Condition Three...I realize that you may feel like you weren't welcome, and I appologize for that. But the reality is we also end up getting our discussions on AW's shut down as well. Admin never pointed to you...you made that connection yourself. In fact, if people were to follow the thread, they would find that most people support the idea of OC, but are concerned about the attitudes and the issues that result from it.

    http://www.californiaccw.org/posts/list/3384.page


    After going throughsome of the threads, the majority of the people who started pushing your buttons are long gone... Billy Jack, Glock22Fan...


    Thanks



  5. #5
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    This thread is titled "My activities, character distorted on CaliforniaCCW.org forum", it was not titled "Open carry banned on CaliforniaCCW.org".

    I try to be communicate as clearly as Im able, expecially when writing on the various forums I frequent, but it seems I'm not transmitting a clear signal.

    The forum administrator of CaliforniaCCW.org paraded me out as "confrontational", suggested that I was undermining TRKBA, and implied that reasonable people couldnt have an intelligent discussion with meon the topic. He's now admitted that he 'glossed over' some details and that what we were both saying could be construed to mean the same thing.

    I disagree.

    From my perspective this is a 180 degree change from October last year. Im of the feeling that some or all of thiscontraversy is contrived.From PM's exchanged last year;

    From: Admin
    To: ConditionThree
    Date: 21/10/2006 20:01:26
    Subject: Re:Re:Re:Legality of Open Carry in the State of California

    I'll never say this on the forum, but open carry is probably viable in the rural areas, just like it is in rural Nevada, Arizona, etc. I'm glad you're doing it, because if people could get used to seeing other people carry guns openly, that would help "normalize" them. That said, please don't post about your open carry experiences here because it will stir up a big big reaction. I don't fully understand why it's such an emotional topic but it is.

    I'll say again, I'm glad you're open carrying and having a good experience with it. I just won't say that on the forum!
    So the Admin tells me he's glad I'm having a good experience but admonishes me not to post my experiences on the board-- which I agree to,he thenhotlinks my experiences from OCDOon his forum...



    From:Admin
    To:ConditionThree
    Date:21/10/2006 23:42:33
    Subject:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legality of Open Carry in the State of California


    ConditionThree wrote:
    Admin wrote:I just posted a link to your posts over on OpenCarry.org. I hope that's ok. Maybe people here should see that open carry happens, even in California. The Shasta sheriff is very very pro-gun, I have heard. Good luck in getting an open carry permit. It would probably be the only one in California. If you get it let us know.
    Its fine, though it's a little confusing. First you warn me not to post my experiences, then you change your mind and post the direct link to my OC experiences.
    No, I just don't want to discuss the philosphical aspects of open carry on this site. This site is very focused on concealed carry. If people want to read about and talk about open carry it really should be on the open carry forum. Perhaps it will be a catalyst for the nay-sayers. It may be. It's just too hot of a topic for this forum. I had hoped to have a matter-of-fact legal discussion, and then people who want to talk more could hop over to your threads on opencarry.
    There is only one version of the truth, and frankly I cannot lend my support to leadership with motivations that arent 100% above board. I also will not tolerate someone feigning approval to my face, while demonstrating distain or disgust for the benefit ofa seperate audience.

    That is all I have to say on the subject. I consider the matter closed.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    There are several members from this site over there having a very good, and enlightening conversation as we speak.

    Yeah, some feel that it draws undue attention to themselves, and could be risky (nothing like a big banner saying "Shoot me first" when bad guys are around).

    Crap, even the idea of people CCW scares BG's bad enough that they are shooting people first, THEN stealing their stuff!

    Personally, I won't do it, but I won't fault the guy who does.


    =====Edit to add=====

    Actually, there are times I would. If I am out in the desert, or in the forests, I definitely would.

    Now, if it were Nevada style, I might. I think what MY point is that If I can carry concealed, why would I want to carry openly? If you have a good practical answer, then I'd like to hear it.



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    Looks like the Admin locked it up....



    Matt

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    No biggie, we want to steal the smart guys from that forum to come over here

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    Oh, ok...I'll leave then

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    IAmASensFan wrote:
    Yeah, some feel that it draws undue attention to themselves, and could be risky (nothing like a big banner saying "Shoot me first" when bad guys are around).
    Here we go again. Could you please post a link to a story where a non-LEO open carrier was attacked because of their weapon. I realize it's not common to see OC in CA but just find one in the whole country. I would be interested to read that. Just because some people FEEL it MAY draw undue attention from BGs doesn't make it true. If you (just saying you, but anyone generally) feel uncomfortable with it, then don't do it, but don't bash us (I know you're not, again this is people generally) for choosing to exercise our right to BEAR arms.

    I know I'm ranting but around these parts when someone makes a statement that is not an opinion, we like to have backup for it. Again, I'm not saying you're here to bash us or anything, I'm not even saying that you said any of this, just putting it out there because of the "nothing says shoot me first" comment.

    Bad monkey...bad....
    (I'll go back in my cage now.)

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    IAmASensFan wrote:
    Oh, ok...I'll leave then
    Mike was kidding.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    badmonkey wrote:
    IAmASensFan wrote:
    Yeah, some feel that it draws undue attention to themselves, and could be risky (nothing like a big banner saying "Shoot me first" when bad guys are around).
    Here we go again. Could you please post a link to a story where a non-LEO open carrier was attacked because of their weapon. I realize it's not common to see OC in CA but just find one in the whole country. I would be interested to read that. Just because some people FEEL it MAY draw undue attention from BGs doesn't make it true. If you (just saying you, but anyone generally) feel uncomfortable with it, then don't do it, but don't bash us (I know you're not, again this is people generally) for choosing to exercise our right to BEAR arms.

    I know I'm ranting but around these parts when someone makes a statement that is not an opinion, we like to have backup for it. Again, I'm not saying you're here to bash us or anything, I'm not even saying that you said any of this, just putting it out there because of the "nothing says shoot me first" comment.

    Bad monkey...bad....
    (I'll go back in my cage now.)


    You're preaching to the choir! You are right, *I* didn't say it...the problem is that people have the same ignorance about CCW as they do Open Carry.

    Different name, but we are fighting for the same clump of manure!

    I need to explain the edit. I didn't read your entire post, my appologies.



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    ConditionThree wrote:
    IAmASensFan wrote:
    Oh, ok...I'll leave then
    Mike was kidding.
    I know

    I was playing on his comment about hoping to draw INTELLIGENT folks over to here...

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    A couple of things I have noticed about that board.

    IMO, many, if not most of the posters there do not believe average citizens have any right to keep and bear arms, or at least the bear part. They seem quite happy with some government agency granting a privilege to a few. They do want the few expanded to include themselves.

    There is a big cop groupie thing going on. I think it leads to less questioning of LE policies and practices in general. The thinking would appear to be the anything LE does is OK, but we want to changethe policies/practicesto include us as CClicensees.

    Political correctness abounds. No one can be allowed to be offended. Especially truefor public officials. The feeling seems to be that playing nice will get them something from said public officials. IMO, the chance of that happening by playing nice is close to nil.

    I think it is a side effect of living in an extremely liberal state.

    They have made some progress in at least making information available to more people, and trying tohelp more people to actually apply. I doubt it will make much difference in the most restrictive counties, but they may have had a positive effect in the less restrictive ones.

    They live in the state. Maybe that is the way to do it there. In any case, the guy that owns the forum gets to set the rules.

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    Well...the board is still young. I stand by my assertion that adopting a standpoint that alienates the moderate left is not proactive. Nothing has advanced in the arena of CCW in California, by foot stamping and whining. It's time to change up tactics.

    Time will tell if we have a bit more influence. I had a friend who was a recovering alcoholic. He used to say that it "took 20 years for him to teach his wife how to react to him as a drunk, it'll take 20 years to teach her how to react to him as a recovering drunk."

    No one on CACCW has ever said that this fight will be quick and easy. Many of the members on the site are liberal in politics, yet they are the biggest contributors to the CCW cause. Self defence is not a left versus right issue. Self defence is a God given, not Constitution given, right.

    Quarter up the political spectrum...you have the quarters on the extreme left and the extreme right, but you have a whole shitload of people in the middle. It's easier to talk to them, than the ends of the spectrum, and they constitute the largest mallable portion.

    You are limiting your fight by staying only on the far right. You are still a minority. You have to work with people you may not WANT to work with to get what you want.

    You will never realize your potential until you accept that, and if you won't accept it, you are ultimately harming your cause.

    Look at me...I've dealt with the most unappealing members of the extreme right, and I don't have a lot of respect for them (these were the ones with opinions, but no brains). I amright of center, but I am here listening to you. It would not take a whole lot to lose someone like me from your fight, though.

    If I don't fully adopt your reasoning for open carry, it doesn't mean my vote doesn't count, though. Folks sometimes have to bite their toungue and take what they can get. If ALL someone wants is a venue to argue, then they're better off not wasting the time and efforts of the people who fight for the cause, because they turn off more people than they attract.

    Does that mean I'm succumbing to the PC attitudes that permeate todays society? Yes, it does, but I'll get better responses than the guy who cry's,stamps his feet and whines about how he's not getting his own way.

    It's called Tact

    American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source



    tact (tākt) Pronunciation Key
    n.
    1. Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending.
    I don't WANT to offend people, I want to ATTRACT them.



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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    IAmASensFan wrote:
    SNIP

    I stand by my assertion that adopting a standpoint that alienates the moderate left is not proactive.*
    *
    SNIP

    Many of the members on the site are liberal in politics, yet they are the biggest contributors to the CCW cause.** Self defence is not a left versus right issue.** Self defence is a God given, not Constitution given, right.

    Quarter up the political spectrum...you have the quarters on the extreme left and the extreme right, but you have a whole @#$%load of people in the middle.** It's easier to talk to them, than the ends of the spectrum, and they constitute the largest mallable portion.

    You are limiting your fight by staying only on the far right.**
    This hackneyed analysis of the political views of Americans serves no purpose other than to reinforce the concept of the (imaginary) "spectrum" of American political thought. In effect, the "spectral view" promulgates the idea that American political thought necessarily lies somewhere along a continuous track from "left" to "right."

    The author admits that self-defense is a non-partisan issue, and then proceeds to assign every American to one of his own fantastical groupings (quarters?).

    The truth is, as the self-defense (or should I say, 2nd Amendment) issue underlines, there are NO partisan issues -- only partisan politics, to which the author clearly subscribes.

    Even the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" have been misused and abused to the point of total confusion, that they no longer have any valuable meaning. They serve merely to distract from the issues, encouraging division across imaginary borders rather than rational discourse about the real issues that face us.

    Look at any "group" on the "spectrum" of American politics and you will find no unanimous agreement on any issue.

    The sooner Americans recognize that our views are not cohesive enough to allow the placing of us into one of two (or four) camps, the sooner we can wade out of this quagmire.

    I submit that the attitude exhibited by this author has done more to harm the RKBA than has any pseudo-"Liberal" "gun-grabber."

    Edited for clarity.

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