UPDATE: Cops indicted for murder of 92 year old women

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SFC Retired and Dr. Fresh just cannot bring themselves to admit the obvious: there are no "good" cops. If there were, the so-called "good" cops would put a stop to the criminal behavior of the "bad" cops. Regardless, the very concept of "law enforcement officers" is foreign to our once-great, constitutional form of government.

Dr. Fresh takes it to another level when he makes it clear he just cannot stand on principle, since that would involve repudiating the chosen "profession" of family members. Now that's a strange concept. Kinship excuses wrongdoing.

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TFred wrote:

I wonder if Ms. Johnston's shot had hit and killed one of the officers breaking down her door, and she had somehow managed to survive, if she would be sharing a similar fate to that of Ryan Frederick?

The circumstances of these two cases are remarkably similar, except for the person who was killed, and the person who ended up in jail.

TFred

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That was my thought, precisely, when I highlighted 'through the door'.

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Wonder if they're gonna meet that 6'5" tall 400 pound fella named "Bubba" in prison
edited for typo

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Not usually as I understand it. ex-LEO are granted protective custody.

Perhaps there is a solution to the inequality problem. If cops knew that they would join their former clients in the general population then they might be accorded the respect of fellow citizens and human beings.

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

For the life of me, I just cannot comprehend how ANYone, after reading this story, can still say with a straight face " I am not anti-LEO." For those of you, I have but one question: what ELSE will it take to change your mind? Does it have to happen to YOU or YOURS before it hits home?

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I'm not, but then I don't see any point to unfocused rage. I'm all about focused rage.

I don't think you'll find ANYBODY who would accuse me of being a cop "fanboi". I have plenty of criticisms of cops, but they're SPECIFIC criticisms about specific acts, people and organizations. I don't waste time on "I'm against LEOs" because it's just gibberish of the same quality (or lack thereof) of the fawning paeans to the police you see from their fawning, unquestioning idolators.

Talk specifics. Talk specific solutions. Don't just talk for its own sake.

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buzzsaw wrote:

IMHO they got off darned**(*) light for frameing and murdering a law abiding and innocent citizen in her own home. If any of us on this site had committed anything near this horrible not even considering doing so under color of law we would and should have never seen the light of day outside of a prison cell. I further conceed different state and circumstances but the border patrol agents in Texas got treated more harshly for shooting a real BG. No justice in Atlanta. Plus they were terrible shots. 5 hits of 39 on a 92 year old who couldn't have been running very fast RANT OFF

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They should have all gotten the death penalty under the felony murder rule.

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Specifics? LOL, too funny. There's no way to condense generations of crimes perpetrated by "law enforcement officers" to fit this forum.

Anyone today who still doesn't understand the total wrongness of the very concept of "law enforcement", doesn't want to understand.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Not usually as I understand it. ex-LEO are granted protective custody.

Perhaps there is a solution to the inequality problem. If cops knew that they would join their former clients in the general population then they might be accorded the respect of fellow citizens and human beings.

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They should be put in with the general population.

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Deanimator wrote:

buzzsaw wrote:

IMHO they got off darned**(*) light for frameing and murdering a law abiding and innocent citizen in her own home. If any of us on this site had committed anything near this horrible not even considering doing so under color of law we would and should have never seen the light of day outside of a prison cell. I further conceed different state and circumstances but the border patrol agents in Texas got treated more harshly for shooting a real BG. No justice in Atlanta. Plus they were terrible shots. 5 hits of 39 on a 92 year old who couldn't have been running very fast RANT OFF

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They should have all gotten the death penalty under the felony murder rule.

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They were cops--they are special. Now had it been us--the story would have been different.

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

For the life of me, I just cannot comprehend how ANYone, after reading this story, can still say with a straight face " I am not anti-LEO." For those of you, I have but one question: what ELSE will it take to change your mind? Does it have to happen to YOU or YOURS before it hits home?

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This is what I have been saying all along--they are simply not to be trusted to do the right thing. This is one of those stories that made it into the news--how many OTHER such crimes have the police perpetrated upon the citizens of this nation that go unreported out of fear or simply ignored?

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Specifics? LOL, too funny. There's no way to condense generations of crimes perpetrated by "law enforcement officers" to fit this forum.

Anyone today who still doesn't understand the total wrongness of the very concept of "law enforcement", doesn't want to understand.

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That's funny, I do it nearly every day, here and and on other fora. I think it's what especially galls iffy cops like Reno229. They like a lot of huffing and puffing, devoid of specific, documented events. It lets them look less foolish when they come back with some drivel about "a hard job", "who would protect you if we weren't here" or "you just wanted to be a cop, but couldn't". When you throw hard facts in their faces, they run away, calling names like Holocaust deniers.

As far as I'm concerned, you're free to deal in unprovable generalities. I prefer to use the weapons that really do damage. When Reno229 mocks an unarmed man murdered by a Chicago cop, that sticks in people's minds. When a fawning cop fanboi lies about the BATF training video about how to lie under oath about the accuracy of the NFA record keeping system, even as others post links to it, that changes minds. But as I said, you do what you think works for you.

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suntzu wrote:

mark edward marchiafava wrote:

For the life of me, I just cannot comprehend how ANYone, after reading this story, can still say with a straight face " I am not anti-LEO." For those of you, I have but one question: what ELSE will it take to change your mind? Does it have to happen to YOU or YOURS before it hits home?

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This is what I have been saying all along--they are simply not to be trusted to do the right thing. This is one of those stories that made it into the news--how many OTHER such crimes have the police perpetrated upon the citizens of this nation that go unreported out of fear or simply ignored?

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Trust but verify. Police IN GENERAL are more or less trustworthy based on the organizational culture where they're employed. I have a high level of trust in the Rocky River, Ohio PD. I have a VERY high level of trust in the Berea, Ohio PD. I have NO trust AT ALL in the Chicago PD, even to merely not commit violent crimes. That doesn't mean that I blindly trust every Berea cop to do the right thing. It just means that I have far less DIStrust of him than I would have for any Chicago cop.

Why? Simply by their documented actions. The Cleveland PD has had some pretty dubious individuals on the rolls since I moved here from Apartheid Chicago in '86. I still trust the Cleveland PD more than I'll EVER trust the Chicago PD. The reason is that it FIRES bad cops, the two most recently I'm aware of because they started a racially motivated bar fight.

ANY group of soldiers can engage in a spree of rape, robbery, arson and murder. Who do you think is more LIKELY to, a group of US Army soldiers or a group of WWII era Japanese soldiers? Both a Rocky River, Ohio cop and a Chicago cop COULD try to kick a barmaid's teeth down her throat then use his position to try to intimidate her and witnesses into silence. Which one however, is more LIKELY to? Observed reality and common sense tell me it's the one with the rational perception that he's unlikely to be substantively punished for doing so.

As I said to Mr. Marchiafava, I deal in verifiable acts of real individuals. That seems to send the Reno229 types into an insane rage FAR moreso than unfocused rage at cops in general.

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What is the racial mix of the actors here? Was Ms Johnston black? Are the cops white? What about the informant?

There is a movement afoot in Chesapeake (Ryan Frederick's home town) to establish a Civilian Police Review Board which would (in part) review police procedures for things like serving warrants. The police are opposed....

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Trustworthy? Huh? Adolph Hitler could be trusted to do his best to eliminate the Jews. What "trustworthiness" are you referring to?

Yes, indeed, most police ARE trustworthy, when it comes to carrying out their agenda.

Repeat after me, "we'd all be better off with no government at all."

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Trustworthy? Huh? Adolph Hitler could be trusted to do his best to eliminate the Jews. What "trustworthiness" are you referring to?

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And Uncle Adolf was stopped by who? Oh, that's right, government organized and controlled military forces. Individuals who opposed him generally ended up dead.:uhoh:

Yes, indeed, most police ARE trustworthy, when it comes to carrying out their agenda.

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This can be said about almost every single person alive, not just LE. What exactly is your agenda? Can you be trusted to do the right thing even if it is in opposition to your agenda?

It would appear that you can be trusted to lump any one in LE in with the worst examples that you can find, ignoring the actions of the individuals.

If all LE are bad, then who arrested and prosecuted these three? Oh wait, it must be a ploy to further solidify their power over the ignorant masses.

Repeat after me, "we'd all be better off with no government at all."

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Socries the anarchist, until someone bigger, stronger, and better equipped to fight comes to his door, then it will be, "Help, help, someone save me from the injustice!":banghead:

A person who cries for the removal of all government usually wants control for themselves, or is ignorant to the fact that without organization ofsome kind, you will quickly be subjugated by someone who is organized.

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I sit here and read the venim that is being lashed out about cops. Are there bad cops yes, but on close examination they are in the minority. Yet the individual that has the shown the most hate is the one who took a PD to court or served notice that he intended to. Then instead of going to trial and exposing the matter, folded like a empty suit when an undisclosed pay off was offered. When this happens no one admits wrong doing and no one is allowed to talk about the matter. So that just goes to prove that MONEY TALKS AND B.S. WALKS . That the person discribed here is just like the rest HE HAS A PRICE. NOW TELL ME ANYTHING I SAID HERE IS WRONG!

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Rattrapper wrote:

I sit here and read the venim that is being lashed out about cops. Are there bad cops yes, but on close examination they are in the minority. Yet the individual that has the shown the most hate is the one who took a PD to court or served notice that he intended to. Then instead of going to trial and exposing the matter, folded like a empty suit when an undisclosed pay off was offered. When this happens no one admits wrong doing and no one is allowed to talk about the matter. So that just goes to prove that MONEY TALKS AND B.S. WALKS . That the person discribed here is just like the rest HE HAS A PRICE. NOW TELL ME ANYTHING I SAID HERE IS WRONG!

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the lady who got lit up by clowns with automatic weapons had a price? was it her life?

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ocman1991A1 wrote:

Rattrapper wrote:

I sit here and read the venim that is being lashed out about cops. Are there bad cops yes, but on close examination they are in the minority. Yet the individual that has the shown the most hate is the one who took a PD to court or served notice that he intended to. Then instead of going to trial and exposing the matter, folded like a empty suit when an undisclosed pay off was offered. When this happens no one admits wrong doing and no one is allowed to talk about the matter. So that just goes to prove that MONEY TALKS AND B.S. WALKS . That the person discribed here is just like the rest HE HAS A PRICE. NOW TELL ME ANYTHING I SAID HERE IS WRONG!

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the lady who got lit up by clowns with automatic weapons had an agenda?

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No, I am talking about one our fellow members, here on this site.

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Rattrapper wrote:

I sit here and read the venim that is being lashed out about cops. Are there bad cops yes, but on close examination they are in the minority. Yet the individual that has the shown the most hate is the one who took a PD to court or served notice that he intended to. Then instead of going to trial and exposing the matter, folded like a empty suit when an undisclosed pay off was offered. When this happens no one admits wrong doing and no one is allowed to talk about the matter. So that just goes to prove that MONEY TALKS AND B.S. WALKS . That the person discribed here is just like the rest HE HAS A PRICE. NOW TELL ME ANYTHING I SAID HERE IS WRONG!

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Evidence tells me that bad cops are a minority OF THE WHOLE. In localized situations, they may indeed be a plurality or even the majority. In places where bad cops are in control of the organizational structure, there are effectively NO "good" cops because they're irrelevant to the situation. If cop A can beat me, rob me or even murder me with impunity, what cop B who doesn't do those things does or thinks is totally beside the point. Unless cop B is going to protect me from cop A, he might just as well have never been born. And in most cases where the "bad apples" are running not just the basket, but the orchard, the "good apples" know EXACTLY what's going on and do NOTHING about it, either because they have no ability or no inclination to do so.

My "venom" for bad police is focused and specific. Mr. Marchiafava's is nothing more than an inarticulate howl of rage. You can't even transcribe it to paper. To that extent, it's worthless.

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Deanimator wrote:

Rattrapper wrote:

I sit here and read the venim that is being lashed out about cops. Are there bad cops yes, but on close examination they are in the minority. Yet the individual that has the shown the most hate is the one who took a PD to court or served notice that he intended to. Then instead of going to trial and exposing the matter, folded like a empty suit when an undisclosed pay off was offered. When this happens no one admits wrong doing and no one is allowed to talk about the matter. So that just goes to prove that MONEY TALKS AND B.S. WALKS . That the person discribed here is just like the rest HE HAS A PRICE. NOW TELL ME ANYTHING I SAID HERE IS WRONG!

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Evidence tells me that bad cops are a minority OF THE WHOLE. In localized situations, they may indeed be a plurality or even the majority. In places where bad cops are in control of the organizational structure, there are effectively NO "good" cops because they're irrelevant to the situation. If cop A can beat me, rob me or even murder me with impunity, what cop B who doesn't do those things does or thinks is totally beside the point. Unless cop B is going to protect me from cop A, he might just as well have never been born. And in most cases where the "bad apples" are running not just the basket, but the orchard, the "good apples" know EXACTLY what's going on and do NOTHING about it, either because they have no ability or no inclination to do so.

My "venom" for bad police is focused and specific. Mr. Marchiafava's is nothing more than an inarticulate howl of rage. You can't even transcribe it to paper. To that extent, it's worthless.

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I agree, I have also seen and experiencedwhat you describe, to the point that because I have spoken out. I have been painted as a problem.