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Thread: Who needs to carry in a mall?

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Man kills 5 and wounds 4 with at a Utah mall before being killed by police. Maybe if some of those customers had guns only 1 or 2 people may have died.

    I know some people say they won't get involved in situations and only carry to protect themselves and their family, not strangers- but I think you have the moral obligation to stop something like this if you have the ability to.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/13/sal....ap/index.html



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    vt357 wrote:
    Man kills 5 and wounds 4 with at a Utah mall before being killed by police. Maybe if some of those customers had guns only 1 or 2 people may have died.

    I know some people say they won't get involved in situations and only carry to protect themselves and their family, not strangers- but I think you have the moral obligation to stop something like this if you have the ability to.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/13/sal....ap/index.html

    "Evil prevails when good men do nothing"

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    One of my favorite quotes! Here it is in full:

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke
    Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    The updated report on the story says that an off duty police officer who was in the mall was carrying his gun and stopped the killer. A good man seems to have made a difference.

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    I'm at that mall often when I'm in Utah. That is scary.

    Do you think they would be praising an armed citizen or telling us that we should not have interferred?

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    I can't say I would have the fortitude to challenge someone with a shotgun (after all, I don't want to die..), but that's why I don't think twice about carrying at the mall.

    Maybe the anti's will realize that there are nut-cases out there and unless we all want to ride bicycles and eat with dulled spork's, there will always be a nutjob that comes out of the woodwork to shoot up a crowded place from time-to-time..

    Don't know about you, but I'm not going down without a fight.

    vt357 wrote:
    Man kills 5 and wounds 4 with at a Utah mall before being killed by police. Maybe if some of those customers had guns only 1 or 2 people may have died.

    I know some people say they won't get involved in situations and only carry to protect themselves and their family, not strangers- but I think you have the moral obligation to stop something like this if you have the ability to.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/13/sal....ap/index.html


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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    We must all keep in mind that any public place where people gather is subject to terrorist attack. This was a terrorist attack! Already being reported is that the shooter was a Muslim refugee from Bosnia. All Muslims may not be terrorist but the ones that shoot people at malls certainly are.We are at war, like it or not. Our first line of defense is the people on the street or in the malls.Your Razr or Bluetooth has its place but can’t substitute for personal firearms.

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    possumboy wrote:
    I'm at that mall often when I'm in Utah. That is scary.

    Do you think they would be praising an armed citizen or telling us that we should not have interferred?
    I would hope they would be praising! Here, readthisexcellent article by Massad Ayoob about Lance Thomas, a carrying citizen who decided it was the right thing to do:
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._82533205/pg_1

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    Today I OC'ed in the Springfield Mall. We were in JCPenney's, New York and Company, Charlotte Russe, Hallmark (corporate gun-unfriendly), Sports Authority, Brookstone, a nail salonand at the food court with no problems at all.

    I did overhear a couple guys saying "Damn..you see that gun?" but that was it.

    Carrying in a crowded mall certainly makes you hyper-situationally aware and the one thing that did make me leerywas while waiting for my wife and daughter to get their nails done, I was seated in the store with my back to a thick glass window and mygun was visible through the glass.I noticed about 5-6 hispanic youth that kept hanging near the windowand then near both entrances. I realized thatif they rushed me with no deadly force, I couldn't even pull the gun and it would have gotten ugly. Thankfully they moved on after 5-10 minutes. Maybe it was my own imagination, maybe they were just checking out the hardware, and maybe not.

    The food court was packed and while there I noticed thatwhile most people didn't look twice,I noticed that a select few peoplethat kept looking over at me as if to be aware of where I was and what I was doing. Believe me,they didn't look like off duty LEO's, FBI, Secret Service (I have friends in all of those), but were more disheveled and looked like illegals.

    Next stop was the Lifeway Christian store in the Springfield Plaza and not one mention of the gun there at all. I was all prepared to whip out Luke 22:36 on them too!! A stop at CVS to pick up a prescription, no problem there, then while walking to 7-11 to get some soda, I spoke to my neighbor and her husband. She saw the gun and asked me if I had to carry for my job and I explained the whole Open Carry thing to her and her hubby. They were great about it and understood completely.

    Knowing Southland/7-11 is gun unfriendly, I checked the door and having no sign (not that it mattered, just want to be prepared), I entered, bought some soda with no problems and left.

    All in all, it was a great day to OC!



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    I went to the barbershop open carrying my gun a cop came in to look for a guy who did'nt work there no more he seen my noticeably shoulder strap with my gun did'nt look twice. Dumfries V.A.

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    wuz up youll see me around ocing

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    I went to the corner store no one said anything

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    I noticed about 5-6 hispanic youth that kept hanging near the windowand then near both entrances. I realized thatif they rushed me with no deadly force, I couldn't even pull the gun and it would have gotten ugly.

    I tend to stay between condition yellow/orange around large groups myself. I like how you thought about "what if" scenerios and what you could possibly do. I even bet you kept a straight face (or even a smile) when you saw them, yet inside your mind, you had 100000.00 E99 "if this happens, I will do this" plans.

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    danbus wrote:
    I noticed about 5-6 hispanic youth that kept hanging near the windowand then near both entrances. I realized thatif they rushed me with no deadly force, I couldn't even pull the gun and it would have gotten ugly.

    I tend to stay between condition yellow/orange around large groups myself. I like how you thought about "what if" scenerios and what you could possibly do. I even bet you kept a straight face (or even a smile) when you saw them, yet inside your mind, you had 100000.00 E99 "if this happens, I will do this" plans.
    You bet I was! Looking for escape routes, other convenient "weapons of opportunity"where I could position myselfto make a stand. Back to a wall is good, corners are better (smaller fields and you cannot get surrounded)... Oh yep, I just kept on reading the magazines, glancing up in the mirrors to keep tabs on who was where....



    Welcome to the forum papiron32467!

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    I noticed about 5-6 hispanic youth that kept hanging near the windowand then near both entrances. I realized thatif they rushed me with no deadly force, I couldn't even pull the gun and it would have gotten ugly.

    bobcav, are you saying that deadly force could not be used by you if 5 guys rushed you for your gun, while they were unarmed?

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I read it as, they could have taken control of him before he cleared leather if they wanted to,,,,,,



    Could be wrong though,.,,,

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    I noticed about 5-6 hispanic youth that kept hanging near the windowand then near both entrances. I realized thatif they rushed me with no deadly force, I couldn't even pull the gun and it would have gotten ugly.

    bobcav, are you saying that deadly force could not be used by you if 5 guys rushed you for your gun, while they were unarmed?
    No, not saying that at all.It was perhaps toogeneral of a statementbased on what I observed up to that time.Deadly force could be used depending onhow threatening they were, and if I had reasonable fear for my life AT THAT TIME.Too many variables to say 1) what their intentions would have been and 2) if based on those actions I would have been afraid for my life.

    What if I'm not afraid of dying?? Does that mean that I can never use deadly force?



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    CaptainCharles wrote:
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I read it as, they could have taken control of him before he cleared leather if they wanted to,,,,,,



    Could be wrong though,.,,,
    Maybe, maybe not.... I'm 6' tall, 210 lbs in great (not perfect)shape, grew up in north New Jersey, hung out in NYC as a kid, learned some really dirty fighting. Really dirty.... Maybe they could have, maybe not.

    Sometimes you ID theleader and pummel the crap outta him, then thefollowers will scatter...

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    I personally spoke to both the security guard AND the manager at the 7-11 in Annandale (Hummer Rd & Little River Tpk) about open carry in the store. The guard explained to the manager that open carry was acceptable and legal. The manager told me I'm welcome to OC there any time. The guard later told me he's a firearms kinda guy and had heard about Manassas!

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    BobCav wrote:

    No, not saying that at all.It was perhaps toogeneral of a statementbased on what I observed up to that time.Deadly force could be used depending onhow threatening they were, and if I had reasonable fear for my life AT THAT TIME.Too many variables to say 1) what their intentions would have been and 2) if based on those actions I would have been afraid for my life.

    What if I'm not afraid of dying?? Does that mean that I can never use deadly force?
    I can see where one COULD be concerned about having to prove your life was in danger and a jury trial would be iffy, at best. especially in light of some of the things i've read from anonymous people out in VA.




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    BobCav wrote:
    Carrying in a crowded mall certainly makes you hyper-situationally aware...
    I think you just convinced me to keep it concealed when heading to the mall.

    I like to believe I'm not racist, but I have to admit the "what ifs" start running through my head when I see a group of 5 hispanic kids but not when I see a group of 5 white kids. That's sad.

    I usually OC when I go fishing, but if I'm hitting the trout stocking parties at Lake Fairfax i conceal. Too much MS-13 crap in the area, and I'd rather them not know I'm packing else I find myself with a knife in the back while I reel in a trout all so some gang dude could get a new piece.

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    BobCav wrote:

    No, not saying that at all.It was perhaps toogeneral of a statementbased on what I observed up to that time.Deadly force could be used depending onhow threatening they were, and if I had reasonable fear for my life AT THAT TIME.Too many variables to say 1) what their intentions would have been and 2) if based on those actions I would have been afraid for my life.

    What if I'm not afraid of dying?? Does that mean that I can never use deadly force?
    I can see where one COULD be concerned about having to prove your life was in danger and a jury trial would be iffy, at best. especially in light of some of the things i've read from anonymous people out in VA.

    Hell, if I'm ever truly afraid for my life, the jury will be the LAST thing I'm worried about. This is an awesome power we carry with us, it demands an awesome responsbility.




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    pingdashf wrote:
    BobCav wrote:
    Carrying in a crowded mall certainly makes you hyper-situationally aware...
    I think you just convinced me to keep it concealed when heading to the mall.

    I like to believe I'm not racist, but I have to admit the "what ifs" start running through my head when I see a group of 5 hispanic kids but not when I see a group of 5 white kids. That's sad.

    I usually OC when I go fishing, but if I'm hitting the trout stocking parties at Lake Fairfax i conceal. Too much MS-13 crap in the area, and I'd rather them not know I'm packing else I find myself with a knife in the back while I reel in a trout all so some gang dude could get a new piece.
    Not racist, but descriptive since there's cultural differences that can make a difference. And like you said MS-13. I used to have a list of all th elocal gang marks, symbols and colors from a local LEO I worked with. I'll see if I can get a newer copy of that.

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    pingdashf wrote:
    BobCav wrote:
    Carrying in a crowded mall certainly makes you hyper-situationally aware...
    I think you just convinced me to keep it concealed when heading to the mall.

    I like to believe I'm not racist, but I have to admit the "what ifs" start running through my head when I see a group of 5 hispanic kids but not when I see a group of 5 white kids. That's sad.

    I usually OC when I go fishing, but if I'm hitting the trout stocking parties at Lake Fairfax i conceal. Too much MS-13 crap in the area, and I'd rather them not know I'm packing else I find myself with a knife in the back while I reel in a trout all so some gang dude could get a new piece.
    CC is fine, and I also prefer to CC in crowded areas. I prefer OC when driving or outdoors, or when sitting down to eat after rmoving my jacket. As far as I'm concerned, OC and CC are both rights, each have their uses,and I shouldn't need a permit for either.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    and I shouldn't need a permit for either.
    Amen.

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