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Thread: Playing the Devil's Advocate

  1. #1
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    First of all let me say that I support the right, where legal, to open carry of a firearm. Of course I also support the right to carry concealed where legal. I happen to live in a state, Alabama, where it is legal to carry openly while on foot but one must have a permit to carry in a vehicle and the firearm must be concealed. I have had a permit for concealed carry for over 30 years.

    Just for the purpose of discussion:

    1. Since I can legally carry my firearm concealed and will not offend or scare anyone which could become ammunition for anti-gunners to push for more restrictive gun laws, what would be the benefit to open carry?

    2. For discussion: Let's say that two people are in a restaurant. Both are armed. One of them is carrying concealed and one of them is carrying openly. If some nut case comes in just shoot everone that he can, who do you suppose he will take out first? The one with the open weapon who could be an obvious threat to him or would he take out the person who does not appear to have a firearm?

    3. Another senario: Which is most likely to have their weapon compromised, (grabbed), a person who is carrying openly or the person who has his/her weapon out of sight secure?

    4. Although open carry might be legal, would the sight of a firearm on one's hip not create immediate concern from an LEO? (I know, if everyone carried openly the situation would not be unusual for the LEO) Just the same, it would only be natural for a LEO to direct his/her attention to someone openly carrying.

    5. I will probably get hammered for this one: Why deliberately call unnecessary attention to the fact that you are carrying given the huge number of individuals that are just looking for another reason to contact their lawmakers and ask for more "gun control"?

    Just some things to think about and discuss.

    acrimsontide

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    Since I can legally carry my firearm concealed and will not offend or scare anyone which could become ammunition for anti-gunners to push for more restrictive gun laws, what would be the benefit to open carry?
    You got it backwards - their is huge political upside to OC. When gun carry comes out fo the closet, you help secure your rights and educate the public & the police.

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    My $0.05.

    1. I've found that most people don't notice when I open carry. I would say my scenario is just as likely as yours - the bad guy comes in and starts pointing, but doesn't even look to see who's armed and who's not. Unless I'm stading in front of him and facing him, like as not he's not gonna see. Bad guys don't see individuals, they see people (collective), in that situation.

    2. I'd maintain if I'm in proper alert condition to carry, it'd take a pretty big guy to compromise the weapon. This is a story often presented as a scenario, but seldom seen. When it is seen, usually the person who's weapon is taken, if honest, will admit s/he was not properly aware.

    3. I've yet to see concern from an LEO. Maybe the fact I'm a woman makes a difference, but I'd still like to believe police are smarter than that. Bad guys don't walk around with their weapons in the open. The fact I'm openly carrying should, I think, tell a LEO I'm on their side, I'm not hiding anything, and I'm aware.

    And as the other poster said, raising awareness is a part of education. Unlike many groups that raise awareness, gun owners make their points quietly and professionally, in most cases.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    First of all let me say that I support the right, where legal, to open carry of a firearm. Of course I also support the right to carry concealed where legal.
    First of all, I support the right to carry open or concealed, whether it is legal or not.

    If you carry illegally, it's your judgement I may question, but never your right.

    I think I know what you mean, but words matter in an argument.

    I happen to live in a state, Alabama, where it is legal to carry openly while on foot but one must have a permit to carry in a vehicle and the firearm must be concealed. I have had a permit for concealed carry for over 30 years.
    Just for the purpose of discussion:

    1. Since I can legally carry my firearm concealed and will not offend or scare anyone which could become ammunition for anti-gunners to push for more restrictive gun laws, what would be the benefit to open carry?
    Do not let your fear of what anti-freedom types will do to you prevent you from exercising your freedom. And besides, Mike's right. Open carry has a benefit because it helps keeping and bearing of arms to become known and accepted.

    2. For discussion: Let's say that two people are in a restaurant. Both are armed. One of them is carrying concealed and one of them is carrying openly. If some nut case comes in just shoot everone that he can, who do you suppose he will take out first? The one with the open weapon who could be an obvious threat to him or would he take out the person who does not appear to have a firearm?
    Hypothetical with lots of variables. Would the crazy really scan the crowd for guns first? And like I said before, I'm not going to let the fear of what some nutcase might do stop me from enjoying my freedom.



    3. Another senario: Which is most likely to have their weapon compromised, (grabbed), a person who is carrying openly or the person who has his/her weapon out of sight secure?
    Depends. If you are CC'ing and being complacent, you may be asking to get picked. But if I was looking for someone to mug, I would choose the guy with the fat wallet and no visible gun over the armed man. Just my opinion.


    4. Although open carry might be legal, would the sight of a firearm on one's hip not create immediate concern from an LEO? (I know, if everyone carried openly the situation would not be unusual for the LEO) Just the same, it would only be natural for a LEO to direct his/her attention to someone openly carrying.
    Yes, you may be correct in some cases. See my last answer. Also, realize that this is something that comes with having the freedom to do so. However, in Fairfax County, VA, the local cops are now well aware that OC is fine, and when they see us coming they usually don't give a second glance. They have other things to look out for, like unlawful activity. That is the environment you want to create where you live. It's makes life better for you,while promoting a more professionalpolice force at the same time.

    5. I will probably get hammered for this one: Why deliberately call unnecessary attention to the fact that you are carrying given the huge number of individuals that are just looking for another reason to contact their lawmakers and ask for more "gun control"?
    Again, I don't give 2 rat's butts what the antis think. They are going to attack my freedom no matter what I do, so I am going to ignore them while rubbing their noses in it by exercisingmy rights with confidence, thus demonstrating that I and others like meexist, and that we are responsible and trustworthycitizens who don't need any more "control".

    I like concealed carry for many, if not most situations, but when I'm driving and I get out to pump gas, or when I'm eating and I take off my jacket to get comfortable, or when hiking, bike-riding, or when it's hot out, I often like to OC. These are both my right and I will not give up either one because some experts think it's not tactically a good idea, or becausemore timid gun lobbyists think I will scare the antis.

    In addition, in many states, including VA,OC doesn't require a permit, so it's a true freedom, unlike CC which almost always requires permission from the government. OC is a therefore the closet thing many of us have to a true, uninfringed, right to keep and bear arms.

    Hope that answers your questions.

  5. #5
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    Welcome to OCDO!

    Here is my $0.02 in response to your questions.

    1. Since I can legally carry my firearm concealed and will not offend or scare anyone which could become ammunition for anti-gunners to push for more restrictive gun laws, what would be the benefit to open carry?

    The more that a non-mainstream practice is observed, the more acceptable to society it becomes. Consider interracial relationships, especially in the South. Such things displayed in public were extremely offensive just a few generations ago, but seldom even raise an eyebrow today. The more that people openly carry firearms, the less society will be offended or afraid.

    2. For discussion: Let's say that two people are in a restaurant. Both are armed. One of them is carrying concealed and one of them is carrying openly. If some nut case comes in just shoot everone that he can, who do you suppose he will take out first? The one with the open weapon who could be an obvious threat to him or would he take out the person who does not appear to have a firearm?

    3. Another senario: Which is most likely to have their weapon compromised, (grabbed), a person who is carrying openly or the person who has his/her weapon out of sight secure?



    There is no way to predict with any amount of certainty what would happen in either scenario. However, I know of no instances of #2 ever happening. Also, I have only heard of one instance if anyone openly carrying being disarmed. I do not know the details of this case, but I took it as a lesson in situational awareness. Until it happens, it is nothing more than a scary possibility - like nuclear war was during the cold war.

    Another thing to consider - just because your weapon is concealed, does not mean that no one else knows that it is there. http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/...6/mar06leb.htm

    4. Although open carry might be legal, would the sight of a firearm on one's hip not create immediate concern from an LEO? (I know, if everyone carried openly the situation would not be unusual for the LEO) Just the same, it would only be natural for a LEO to direct his/her attention to someone openly carrying.

    Why would it? Unless there is something about how the individual is acting that would imply that they are about to do something wrong, why would the mere presence of a visible firearm deserve any extra attention?

    5. Why deliberately call unnecessary attention to the fact that you are carrying given the huge number of individuals that are just looking for another reason to contact their lawmakers and ask for more "gun control"?

    See my answer to #1.




  6. #6
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    jimwyant wrote:
    Welcome to OCDO!

    Here is my $0.02 in response to your questions.

    I knew you were going to chime in . I totaly agree, but want to add, that if he is not comfortable with OC then CC is fine.

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    cs9c1 wrote:
    jimwyant wrote:
    Welcome to OCDO!

    Here is my $0.02 in response to your questions.
    I knew you were going to chime in . I totaly agree, but want to add, that if he is not comfortable with OC then CC is fine.
    I'm sorry, I forgot to add the standard "OC isn't for everyone" disclaimer. We need to be sure we don't come across as anti-CC, considering how rabidly anti-OC some of our "brothers in arms" are.

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    jimwyant, Please know that I fully support open carry as well as concealed carry. That is an indiviual choice. PERSONALLY, I prefer to carry concealed, but then that's just me. The main thing is that we are able to exercise our right to carry and have the ability to protect ourselves!!!

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    jimwyant, Please know that I fully support open carry as well as concealed carry. That is an indiviusl choice. PERSONALLY, I prefer to carry concealed, but hen that's just me. The main thing is that we are able to exercise our right to carry and have the ability to protect ourselves!!!
    I apologize if my statement implied that you are one of those "rabidly anti-OC types" - I was not speaking of you, sir. You asked your question in a very respectful manner for the purpose of intelligent discussion, which is what OCDO is all about. I was referring to those on other sites who start foaming at the mouth whenever OC is mentioned. See http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/1043.html for links to some examples of these kinds of "discussions".

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