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Thread: OC in space?

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    SUMMARY: When the FAA issued a final rule on human space flight, it described one rule as consistent with the Second Amendment of the Constitution because, among other things, the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment is a collective right. The FAA now withdraws that characterization and amends its description.
    http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2007/0...withdraws.html

    The Executive Branch, through the Department of Justice, interprets the Second Amendment as securing a right of individuals to keep and bear arms. (See Memorandum for the Attorney General from Steven G. Bradbury, Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel, et al., Re: Whether The Second Amendment Secures An Individual Right (Aug. 24, 2004), available at http://www.usdoj.gov/olcsecondoamendment2.pdf ). In light of this interpretation, the FAA is withdrawing the statement made in the final rule.
    Regardless of the nature of the right, however, it remains true, as we noted, that the right is, like any other, not unfettered.



    "Now the debate can focus on the "fettering" (read "infringing") aspect of the rule. You may ask "so what?" as if this changes nothing, but in fact, withdrawing the collective rights interpetation is significant, and here's the reality I want WoG readers to walk away understanding: If you know you're right, keep pushing--even if those with vastly more reach ignore you and others actively oppose you or put you down for it--all of which happened in this case. We can't let that deter us from doing what's right. We, and by that, know that it includes YOU, can effect change when the truths we present are undeniable. "-posted by David Codrea



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    Reminds me of the line in Armageddon: "What are you doing with a gun, in space?"

    Heh...

    But, the nice thing about target-shooting on the moon will be thatwe won't need ear-plugs!!! (good luck finding your ejected brass though)

    It begs the questions though... What is the best caliber for SD in zero, or near-zero gravity, and no atmosphere? It occurs to me that anything which would punch a hole in a space-suit would be sufficient... The debate never ceases...

    And, what about shooting inside a spacecraft? I'd be the first one to pony up for some frangible ammo, which would be less likely to penetrate the hull... if ya' know what I mean!

    molonlabetn



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    molonlabetn wrote:

    It begs the questions though... What is the best caliber for SD in zero, or near-zero gravity, and no atmosphere? It occurs to me that anything which would punch a hole in a space-suit would be sufficient... The debate never ceases...

    9mm!!
    45!!!
    9mm!!
    45!!
    9mm!!
    45!!!
    9mm!!
    45!!

    Seriously though if you could just puncture the space suit then the person is as good as dead anyway, even if they themself didn't get punctured.

    Wow.... you're right, it never ceases...

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    badmonkey wrote:
    molonlabetn wrote:

    It begs the questions though... What is the best caliber for SD in zero, or near-zero gravity, and no atmosphere? It occurs to me that anything which would punch a hole in a space-suit would be sufficient... The debate never ceases...

    9mm!!
    45!!!
    9mm!!
    45!!
    9mm!!
    45!!!
    9mm!!
    45!!

    Seriously though if you could just puncture the space suit then the person is as good as dead anyway, even if they themself didn't get punctured.

    Wow.... you're right, it never ceases...
    Perhaps we've finally found a valid purpose for 5.7x28mm...! Penetrating Space-Suits!!!! :what:

    :P

    molonlabetn

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    molonlabetn wrote:
    badmonkey wrote:
    molonlabetn wrote:

    It begs the questions though... What is the best caliber for SD in zero, or near-zero gravity, and no atmosphere? It occurs to me that anything which would punch a hole in a space-suit would be sufficient... The debate never ceases...

    9mm!!
    45!!!
    9mm!!
    45!!
    9mm!!
    45!!!
    9mm!!
    45!!

    Seriously though if you could just puncture the space suit then the person is as good as dead anyway, even if they themself didn't get punctured.

    Wow.... you're right, it never ceases...
    Perhaps we've finally found a valid purpose for 5.7x28mm...! Penetrating Space-Suits!!!! :what:

    :P

    molonlabetn
    People watch too much damn TV.

    When a space suit is ruptured, the occupant isnt squirted off like a rapidly deflating balloon,their blood doesnt boiland they dont explode as the oxygen rushes out of their body. In other words, if you plant a bullet in center mass they will likely die of the gunshot wound before they die of suffocation. On the other hand, graze them by poking a hole in their atmosphere suit and they will have about 15 seconds of complete consciousness IF they cannot seal the breech. If they are armed as you are, that is plenty of time to shoot you back.

    Please have a look at this from NASA;

    http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970603.html
    How long can a human live unprotected in space?
    If you don't try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.
    Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're dying. The limits are not really known.
    You think we can be taken seriously, debating the technical issues of having a shootout in space?:P
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    You think we can be taken seriously, debating the technical issues of having a shootout in space
    Mr. Codrea has a reputation as a serious 2A advocate and I agree that the legal ramifications of this ruling have some merit for ongoingdebates.

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    Well, I certainly wouldn't call the bends a "minor" injury, in fact, as a scuba diver, it scares the hell out of me, as it's notoriously painful and can cause some permanent damage. Of course, in a vacuum you have more than this to worry about.

    I read somewhere that the suits NASA currently uses can supply air for about three minutes in the event of a small breach (like, say, a bullethole), enough to hustle yourself into the nearest airlock in the event you get nailed with a micrometeorite or a small piece of debris (like, perhaps, a bullet).

    One problem with choosing a cartridge for use in a vacuum would be the absence of oxygen to burn the propellant with. If your cartridge is sealed well enough, there might be enough air inside to burn the powder, but I'd be willing to bet that if you did some vacuum-chamber testing with common pistols and cartridges you'd probably want to make some modifications to either the cartridge or the auto-loading mechanism. For instance, a gas-operated autoloader probably would either not work right, or need some modifications, since the system wouldn't see the usual back pressure and such.

    Somewhere I read that the Russian Soyuz vehicles each carry a shotgun on board for survival in case an anomalous re-entry drops the crew in the boonies somewhere. That has happened at least once, and the crew had to spend the night in the cold woods before being recovered.

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    Gun-powder does not required an oxygen atmosphere to burn, its chemical structure already carries all components for the intended reaction. Hence, you can fire a gun underwater...

    The gas-operated semi-auto issue is an interesting point to bring up... I would be shocked to find out that it would not work at all. But, I imagine that the propellant gasses will invariably disperse and equalize more rapidly in a vacuum... I theorize that a gas-operated weapon would actually work "too-well" (excessive bolt/carrier velocity) because of the greater pressure differential. I would expect more of a problem with inertial-driven guns (such as are found in someBeretta andBenelli shotguns) in zero gravity...

    This opens up a whole new landscape...

    Apologies to the OP for branching off onto non-serious tangents. I see commercial transportation all the same, whether it is a bus, plane, ship, or spacecraft. I believe that the right to self-defense is not absent in ANY circumstance or location.

    molonlabetn

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    Omigosh I was just saying that to be funny and look...we actually have a debate going on it! HAHAHA!!!!

    I love it.

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    molonlabetn wrote:
    Apologies to the OP for branching off onto non-serious tangents.
    molonlabetn
    No problem. I certainly did not anticipate the direction of this thread but, hey, I believe in freedom of speech (and the rest of the BOR, too).

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