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Thread: Question about rifles/trucks/hunters

  1. #1
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    Hey all, I've been a lurker for a while here as well as packing.org, trying to educate myself as much as possible on handguns and CWP, but I've come to a road block and am looking for enlightenment.

    The other day, I picked up my brother on the way to the gun glub. He looked in the back of the truck (4-door) and noticed the handgun locked in it's case.

    He said "You can't do that. You don't have a permit for concealed yet." I commented (based on what I've read/understand) that "I have to carry it unloaded and locked in a container seperate from the ammo, note counting the glove box." (http://www.packing.org/state/utah/#statecar_law)

    His response was "What about all the hunters with rifles and gun racks in the window?"

    That got me thinking of the times I've been rabbit hunting with shotguns in the rear window and shells on the dashboard (when I was younger).

    How does that work?Was that illegal? I asume it would be okay if the ammo was in a locked container but do hunters do that? Has anyone been stopped before for this reason?

    I'm assuming the law applies to all firearms but I'm curious if there's an exception somewhere or if police have a 'blind-eye' to that sort of thing.

    Thanks in advance =)
    Jerry



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    The only restrictions I can find, where a gun is required to be "securely encased", or "not readily accessible for immediate use" only apply to concealed weapons. In a vehicle or otherwise. So, if your handgun is concealed and you have no permit, it has to be in a case or inaccessible. You cannot have any loaded weapon in a vehicle without a permit. "In a gun rack" would fit the criteria of being not readily accessible, but if it's not concealed then it shouldn't matter. I am citing Utah Code 76-10-504.

    I have been checked by CO's while driving on a hunting trip, with my hunting rifle on my lap, and a full magazine (action open, nothing in the chamber). They told me it was legal to do that, as long as there was nothing in the chamber.

    So, my personal understanding is that a weapon has to be in plain sight, or, if it is concealed, then it must be securely encased or not readily accessible for immediate use. Neither of those apply to concealed permit holders, however. They are exempt from the "loaded firearm in a vehicle", and also concealed firearm laws.

    There is nothing that prohibits having ammo with the gun, or even in the gun when it is cased. The gun just cannot be "loaded", which means nothing in the chamber for a rifle or semi-auto pistol, nothing under the hammer for a S/A revolver, and nothing under the hammer OR in the next chamber for a D/A revolver.


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    Wow, that sounds a lot more lenient than Washington State, where a long arm is considered loaded if it "contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber" (RCW 77.15.460).

    Or is it just that they're more lenient in how then enforce it in Utah?

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    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.
    Utah has no law that I'm aware of about cartridges in the magazine, except for concealed carry without a permit. If you are caught doing that, the penalty is worse if there is any ammunition in the gun.

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    mqeqeshe, thanks for the reply. It makes sense what you said but I'm still confused on the opencarry.org map for utah:





    Open Car Carry
    Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit/license.

    I guess I should call Utah Highway Patrol and have them clear it up.

  6. #6
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    I would like to know which law they are referring to, because I sure can't find it. The only laws I have found in the Utah Code regarding firearms and vehicles deal only with concealed dangerous weapons, and loaded firearms in a vehicle. I have not found anything that mentions a gun in plain sight that is unloaded.

    From Utah Code 63-98-102:
    (2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:
    (a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control;
    So, unless there is a specific law stating otherwise, you are allowed to "possess a firearm in any vehicle." Since it is illegal to have a concealed firearm readily accessible without a permit, you would have to be very careful how you carry openly. You wouldn't want the gun to be accidentally concealed, or carried in a way where it might seem concealed.

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    castle9mm wrote:
    mqeqeshe,I'm still confused on the opencarry.org map for utah:

    Open Car Carry
    Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit/license.

    I guess I should call Utah Highway Patrol and have them clear it up.
    OCDO database pertains to carry of a loaded handgun - to OC a loaded handgun in Utah, you must have a permit to conceal.

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    Maybe the followingdirect references to the Utah Code will help. An unloaded weapon in agun rack is okay according to the code.

    http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITL...m/76_0C030.htm

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C034.htm

    http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/76_0C.htm

  9. #9
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    Thanks everyone. Your replies help clear it up.

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