Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: visitor inquiring about open carry, especially re: schools

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    I am thinking of visiting Wyoming later this year, and wanted to brush up on the laws dealing with open carry and concealed carry. I have a concealed carry permit issued by a state with which Wyoming has reciprocity.

    From reading recent threads on this forum, I would understand that the only places in Wyoming that are off limits to OPEN carry are jails, penal institutions, mental hospitals, posted private property, and federal property. Is that really the case?

    I am particularly concerned about school properties, including institutions of higher education. Aside from the question of state law, I'd like comments on the following: It appears to me that a FEDERAL law would prohibit a nonresident like me from carrying either openly or concealed inside of a school or within 1,000 feet of any school. The law is 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Section 922 (q), usually referred to as the Gun-Free School Zone law (this is NOT the law that the Supreme Court struck down in the Lopez case, but the replacement law enacted later), which provides in part:

    "(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. (b) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm . . . if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license . . ."

    The law defines a "school zone" as
    "(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school."


    Comments?


  2. #2
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    As has been mentioned before, there are no state laws against open carry anywhere in Wyoming. There are several restrictions on concealed carry, however, so you should review the relevant law at the Wyoming gov. site before you come. I do not CC, so I'm not well versed in those restrictions.

    The various federal laws, of course, apply. Considering the current climate of public opinion, it would be very foolish to attempt to carry either way on any government school property, including a college or university. The same is true for any jail, cop shop or other such facility.

    Just why anyone would want to set foot on such property eludes me, but others have different priorities.

    I open carry all the time in the county library, and have done so in the courthouse on routine business. Nobody turned a hair. I would honor the wishes of private property owners who refused me entrance, but I've not run into that here in Wyoming. ML


    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    ThatIsAFact wrote:
    I have a concealed carry permit issued by a state with which Wyoming has reciprocity.
    Then you can OC all the way to the blackboard under Federal Law.

    Is it true WY has no school gun ban?

  4. #4
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    I highly doubt it. I'm quite sure the anti-gun law is Federal, not state. All Federal gun laws apply - so far - in Wyoming.

    Check the Federal law, as well as the Wyoming state website for relevant postings. I am not aware of any state restrictions on OC, but you must be responsible for finding out for yourself. Don't rely on anyone else. ML
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    ThatIsAFact wrote:
    I have a concealed carry permit issued by a state with which Wyoming has reciprocity.
    Then you can OC all the way to the blackboard under Federal Law.

    Mike, I don't follow you. Let's explore this further.The federal law, which I have quoted above, provides an exception only

    "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State . . ."

    I am NOT licensed by Wyoming -- and indeed, as far as I can tell, Wyoming does not even issue permits to non-residents. I am licensed by a state with which Wyoming has reciprocity, and that makes me immune from Wyoming's state-law prohibition on carrying a concealed firearm. But the federal law against carrying in a "school zone" contains no such exception. (And the federal law applies to private schools as well as public schools.)

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    ThatIsAFact wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    ThatIsAFact wrote:
    I have a concealed carry permit issued by a state with which Wyoming has reciprocity.
    Then you can OC all the way to the blackboard under Federal Law.

    Mike, I don't follow you. Let's explore this further.The federal law, which I have quoted above, provides an exception only

    "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State . . ."

    I am NOT licensed by Wyoming -- and indeed, as far as I can tell, Wyoming does not even issue permits to non-residents. I am licensed by a state with which Wyoming has reciprocity, and that makes me immune from Wyoming's state-law prohibition on carrying a concealed firearm. But the federal law against carrying in a "school zone" contains no such exception. (And the federal law applies to private schools as well as public schools.)
    Sorry, you are correct, a license from another state is a problem - BATFE has a letter out on this - they contend that a license accepted by a state is not good in that state for purposes of the exemption in 922(q).

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    12

    Post imported post

    See the following link.

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...2----000-.html

    Nothing is mentioned about the 1,000’ rule, and there are several exemptions listed in 2.B.iii.I-VII

    This was lifted from the ATF site and basically states the same thing, but with the 1,000' rule.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/2006shot_show_q-a.htm

    (Q10): Is an FFL in violation of the Gun Free School Zone if their business premises are located near a school?

    (A10): Generally, it is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess a firearm within a school zone. A school zone is defined as being within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial, or private school. This prohibition does not apply to the possession of a firearm on private property not part of school grounds, such as an FFL's business premises (e.g., commercial storefront, residence, or driveway).
    Once a customer leaves private property located within 1,000 feet of a school with a firearm, they may be in violation of Federal law. However, in the following situations an individual would not be possessing a firearm in violation of 922(q)(A):
    1. The individual is licensed by the State or political subdivision to possess the firearm, and the license was issued after law enforcement officials verified that the individual is qualified to receive the license;
    2. The firearm is unloaded and is contained within a locked container or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    3. The firearm is possessed by an individual for use in a school-approved program;
    4. The individual or his/her employer is doing so in accordance with a contract entered into between the individual and the school;
    5. The individual is a law enforcement officer acting in their official capacity; or
    6. The individual is crossing school grounds to reach a public or private way. Their firearm is unloaded, and they have permission from the school.
    ATF realizes that not all persons who enter or exit an FFL's premises in such case may fall under one of the above-described statutory exemptions. Therefore, ATF advises that in those States where a permit is not needed, the FFL should ensure that a purchaser's firearm is unloaded and placed in a locked container prior to leaving the business premises.
    18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(B)
    The following was lifted from the state of Wyoming web site and can be found here, http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/d...edFirearms.htm , and is referring to concealed weapons.

    (t) No permit issued pursuant to this section or any permit issued from any other state shall authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm into:
    (i) Any facility used primarily for law enforcement operations or administration without the written consent of the chief administrator;
    (ii) Any detention facility, prison or jail;
    (iii) Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in the courtroom;
    (iv) Any meeting of a governmental entity;
    (v) Any meeting of the legislature or a committee thereof;
    (vi) Any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
    (vii) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;
    (viii) Any place where persons are assembled for public worship, without the written consent of the chief administrator of that place;
    (ix) Any elementary or secondary school facility;
    (x) Any college or university facility without the written consent of the security service of the college or university; or
    (xi) Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law or regulation or state law.
    Regarding your question:

    From reading recent threads on this forum, I would understand that the only places in Wyoming that are off limits to OPEN carry are jails, penal institutions, mental hospitals, posted private property, and federal property. Is that really the case?
    Yes, that is the case. Really. While you didn’t mention the post office specifically, you did mention federal property, which applies to the post office - don’t forget that one. I don’t have a CCW permit but OC everyday, everywhere. I have had only 3 instance where someone has asked me to take my OC pistol outside (one, a doctors office, which I did), and 2 where I entered stores without posted signs, which, after a bit of discussion, I didn’t. Actually, one did have signs posted – inside the store in front of the service counter. A large chain sporting goods store no less, where I was picking up two rifles I had shipped there.

    I wouldn’t worry about bringing your guns to Wyoming unless you are specifically planning on going to visit schools. During my search, I recall seeing a clause that stated there is no problem carrying a firearm to schools to drop off/pick up the kids off so long as you didn’t exit the vehicle, which I did for years before the kids got old enough to drive on their own. Unfortunately, I didn’t think to cut and paste and a quick search proved fruitless.

    Hope this doesn’t muddy the water.

    Regards,
    David

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •