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Thread: Recent interactions with the Public?

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    Gettin kinda tired of readin about what happened in Manassass and all. Anyone have any funny, interisting, or stupid stories of peopleout in publicasking questions or telling you the law as "they" know it?

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    Good idea for a thread. Here is my contribution:

    It happened yesterday, a real life illustration of what criminals think about gun laws.

    While working in a gun shop.....

    Female customer: Do you have a bulletin board?
    Me: huh?
    FC: Like a board where people are selling guns.
    Me: No, are you looking for a used gun?
    FC: Yes
    Me: We have a used gun case over there.
    FC: Oh... no, I wouldn't qualify....and I am getting it for somebody else.
    Me: :what:


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Good idea for a thread. Here is my contribution:

    It happened yesterday, a real life illustration of what criminals think about gun laws.

    While working in a gun shop.....

    Female customer: Do you have a bulletin board?
    Me: huh?
    FC: Like a board where people are selling guns.
    Me: No, are you looking for a used gun?
    FC: Yes
    Me: We have a used gun case over there.
    FC: Oh... no, I wouldn't qualify....and I am getting it for somebody else.
    Me: :what:


    Did you tell her to send Mike Bloomberg your regards?


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    Daaaamn, thats pretty funny, i think i woulda kept talkin to her just to see how much she would say...

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    I havea somewhat funny story about something that happened to me yesterday at the Yorktown Wal-Mart.

    It was a humid night....

    wait...no...it started like this....(some people might get that)

    My truck was in need of an oil change and I had some shopping to do, so I decided to kill two birds with one stone. I really hate getting oil changes ANYWHERE, but I am too lazy to do it myselfas of later,so I just bit the bullet and dropped it off before I went inside to shop. The wait was somewhere around 2 1/2hours! I was finished shopping, and then just spentabout 2 hourswalking around with my girlfriend while we were waiting for them to finish with the oil change. Nobody said anything the entire time I was waiting,other than oneemployee back in the "sporting goods" department, who asked if I liked my 1911since he was having trouble deciding between a Glock and 1911. I told him to shoot both, but I liked the single stack more even though I have larger hands. Finally I figured that enough time had passed for them to finish a simple oil change, andmy girlfriend and Iwent back to the "automotive center" to pay and get my car. There was a male employee at the service counter, about in his mid forties. That is where the story really begins, it went something like this:

    Me- "How's it going? I just was wondering if my car was..."

    Employee - "Why do we have a gunon us, now?"

    I just kind of looked at him for a second, since he obviously wasn't interested in a real answer. Keep in mind that he was being quitesnooty the entire time. I don't think he was anti-gun, more of an ignorantred-neck (no offense intended) that "thought" he would put some youngin' in his place. He continued on withoutwaiting for a reply either.

    Employee - " You knowthe hammer is back.."

    Me - " Yeah, it is...and I do know."

    Employee - "Well, WHY is it like that?"

    Me - "Becausethat's how youcarry a single action auto pistol...it's called Condition One, and it is quite common and perfectly safe to do."

    IreallyWAStrying to educate him about the fact that it was perfectly acceptable to have it holstered that way.

    Employee - "...It's a good way to shoot your foot off...and it isn't SAFE..."

    Me - "Is my car ready?"

    Employee - "Condition One means that it is unloaded and safety is on, and it doesn't even apply to that weapon."

    Me - "No...are you an armorer?"

    Employee - "Yes."

    Me - "Ok, then what is Condition Two?"

    At this point I was actually upset by his ignorance and persistant stupidity, so rather than take the high ground, I wanted to make him squirm a bit and get him to say the magic words YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT IN HERE. At that point I was going to ask for the store manager and ask if it was corporate policy to harass law abiding customers and engage themin arguments. Anyways, it continued...

    Employee - "Well, that's a trick question...Condition Two applies to police service revolvers, specifically .38's...and it's when the hammer is cocked over a loadedround."

    UGHHH! Is it just me, or am I the only person that doesn't argue about things that I am completely ignorant of?! Obviously I knew at least SOMETHING about guns, since had a full size 1911 hanging off my belt! But he insisted on "educating me"

    Me - "OK, no that isINCORRECT on so many levels... There are 3 main conditions that work best for single action semi-automatic weapons, and 2 that are sometimes also used to denote a READY condition, and an EMPTY state...theyALL DOapply to this firearm...specifically... since they wereactuallycreated by US Army armorersto describe the statesof the Colt 1911 .45acp automatic pistol...Condition One, aka 'cocked and locked' is how the US Army carried 1911's...and that is how I do."

    Employee - "You a cop?"

    I find it very interesting that he would ARGUE with me up to this point without even caring if I was a LEO or not?! What a world...anyways...

    Me - "Are you?"

    Employee - "...Military.."

    Me -"huh, me too..."

    Employee - "Oh yeah? What branch?"

    Me - "United States Air Force"

    Employee - "And they let you carry that 9mm on Post?"

    Me - "It's a .45, and NO, they don't...If I did bring this on BASE (Air Force) then I would have to carry it in a locked container and deposit it at the base armory until I was ready to leave...BUT...as a matter of fact...they DO 'let me' carry a 9mm on base when my dutiesrequire it...specifically a Beretta M9... I also can carry an M16A2...or an M4...and I am qualified as an EXPERT MARKSMAN (not hard to do) on them all."

    I think that was the final nail in the coffin...he asked what he could to to help me...and I found out that my car STILL wasn't ready, so my girlfriend and I walked around for about 30 more minutes before we were finished and left. Keep in mind that this is basically EXACTLY the wording that was used in the exchange...I have a good memory when it comes to things that piss me off, and idiots never seem to be in short supply when I do get angry. I like to think that I handle myself with a certain degree of restraint, but maybe I am a bit of a trouble maker? I found that I REALLY, REALLY wanted him to ask me to leave or remove/conceal my weapon, in which caseI would bring the store manager into the equation, but it never happened. I feel a little petty for even dragging it out that long, or wishing for an opportunity to involve management. I guess I could have made a formal complaint while I was waiting all that time...but it seemed like he learned was done fighting, and might have learned something...

    A good lesson for everyone is:

    Don't always assume that just because someone is younger (or older) that they are naive, and that you can push them around. I might only be 24 years old, but I make sure that ifIinitiate a confrontationthat Ican finish it, AND that I am correct in doing so. ALOT of folks can't seem to grasp this very important concept. Whether it isphysical or verbal, make sure that you are JUSTIFIED in your actionsBEFORE taking them! People like this guy I encountered might be irritating, or even infuriating...but theyreally are MOREof an incentive to make sureYOU are well informed and aware of your RIGHTS! If I had just walked away, or blown-up about his smug comment... then his ignorance wouldn't have been identified, and HE would have been justified. There are some things that are worth fighting for, and this wholesituation goes beyond 2a rights...it is about protectingALL of our freedoms. That might sound a bit far fetched, but it is important that people remember -Wars are won and lost by battles. A single battle is the pivotal point.Each battle is fought by individuals, and a single person might make that critical move for victoryat any time! IF YOU BELIEVE IN ANYTHING...FIGHT FOR IT! Don't just rely on others, or passive action...become involved in protecting YOUR rights.

    If I ever feel like I might be wrong, then I will concede to the facts...but I never roll over just to avoid some turmoil! I really encourage others to do the same, there is no shame in admitting that you are wrong IF YOU ARE. The real shame is when you refuse to allow someone else to educate you! Learn the facts, be vigilant!

    Everyone that chooses to live in this great country has a duty to protect and defend it.This means taking an active role. At one time, if you didn't like the current state of affairs, you could move somewhere else that suited your needs. Sadly, the world has been almost entirely populated now, and there is no new frontier. This is it, we live in what was the last new world. This country was founded on the fundamentals that each man was entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I always hear people spouting off half-witted statementssuch as"...if you don't like it, then just leave! this is America!" when refering to so called ungratefuls. I thoroughly disagree though.By saying that, they areundermining the very ideals on which this country was founded...I was born here, and I love this countryas much asanyone. However, for most of my life, I considered living abroad, because I feltthat this country had lost it's way, and I was buying into the "just leave" idea I had heard so many times. I have checked around, and for me...even in the present form, this country is still the best. It is my home, and I refuse to abandon it now, in it's time of need. This was the land of free and the home of the brave, and yet, day after day, our Rights are eroded, we are taxed by a bloated and ineffectivesystem,children areraised to rely on intricate social structures,andyet told that they MUST work in this system. Thereare cries from the massesforMORE control systems and social welfare?! Iam requiredto apply for permits for everything I do, and pay taxes for services that I don't need! The current United States is moreworse than the British rule that we fought so hard to free ourselves from! We were a country of dissenters, patriots, and riflemen.Our founding fathers created one of the most perfect legal documents ever drafted.Since beforeour Constitution of these United States was ratified, there have been attempts to twist it. Ask yourself, do you want this to become another Europe? The freedoms of theUnited States of America were won by people who asked the question "why?." They thought, we can do better. No matter your political affiliation, I encourage you to become active in your beliefs. It is not too late to make a difference. Where I once felt that I was in the minority and that I was fighting for a lost cause, I can honestly say that finding out about the number of people fighting with me for these rights has greatly influenced my decision to stay here,and stand up for my rights. I feel that we are on crucial ground right now. There are two very distinct viewpoints fighting for the control of our country, both of which have many personal interests. Libertarians are for the restoration of our Bill of Rights, if you are unfamiliar with this political party, I strongly encourage you to educate yourself about it. If you do vote, choose based on actual issues, not your political stance. I do not encourage breaking the law, but rather fighting to remove unjust legislation. We have not come to a point where it is necessary to take up arms against an oppressive government...and I hope that it never comes to that. The idea is to stop it from ever coming to that point. I really am ranting now...and I have probably repeated many points, but they are worth the repetition.

    I hope that everyone here feels the same way as I do...sorry againfor the rant...I just get worked up about stupidity, and retyping that story probably made me angrier than the actual incident did! Hope someone finds it interesting or maybe informative.

    -BlueJ Out



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    Great story, i love it (and hate it) when that happens, good rant too! Unfortuantely im out at sea right now, but ill be back in a couple weeks to get back to OCin and hopefully get to educate some people. I did have one lil story before i left, it was about a week ago.

    I went into 7-11 late late at night to get some smokes and what not, there was two guys behind the counter, and another guy unloading supplies. The guy bringin in the supplies saw my HK.45USP in its holster and asked me where i got the holster and if i liked it. I told him yeah i liked it and where i got it, he told me he was tryin to get his CHP or something to that matter. The older guy behind the counter noticed it and said somethin about "oh you got that permit" I told him yes i did, but you dont need one to OC as i was, Neither the guys behind the counter, nor the guy unloading supplies seemed to know about OC. They listened and we chatted back and forth about it for a while and i think that they felt a lil smarter when i left. pretty cool.

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    I was OC'ing at the Speedway the other night. Had my Beretta 92FS on my right hip in a Sepra OWB holster. So you cant missmy weaponeven if your partially blind.

    There was young man is in front of me and therewere 2 other people already in line in front of him. I notice he is buying 3tall-boy beers soI am assuming he is at least 21. I also notice a smell of alcoholon him, so I assume also he has been drinking.

    He notice's my Beretta and says, "Whooa dude your got a big gun there"... I kinda laugh a bit and of course the two other customers, the cashier and the assistant manager (who was behind the counter) look up. The young man says, "Arn't you going to get in trouble for carrying that thing around?" I told him No that it was legal in Ohio to Open Carry. He then proceded to say " Great man I can carry my two .45's in my double shoulder holster's". I said well your gonna have to quit drinking before you do that.. He said.."Why's that dude."

    I then informed him about drinking and alcohol, and he looked kinda bummed. He said "Oh well". By that time it was his turn and he paid for his beers and left.

    I kept thinking to myself... geesh... just what we need is some drunk kid running around OC'ing, wouldn't that be great for our cause. Yes I know he would only need to get caught once but some Anti would jump all over that.

    But the up part of this was I spent the next 10 minutes chatting with the Asst. Mgr and the clerk about OC'ing and CC'ing and might have gotten them both interested in our cause. So all in all, it wasn't a bad night for the cause.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Not an OC story but I had a customer insist that the law in Fairfax required him to surrender his ID just to hold a firearm in a gun store. :shock:

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Not an OC story but I had a customer insist that the law in Fairfax required him to surrender his ID just to hold a firearm in a gun store. :shock:
    I haven't heard that one before. So did you take it from him?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Not an OC story but I had a customer insist that the law in Fairfax required him to surrender his ID just to hold a firearm in a gun store. :shock:
    I haven't heard that one before. So did you take it from him?
    Maybe tell you're going to keep it until he can answer a pop quiz (yours) on the Fourth Amendment?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well he handed it to me and I told him I didn't need to see it. He said 'oh thats right were in Arlington', actually my store is in Fairfax. Anyhow talking further is where I he informed me that its the law in Fairfax that we have to hold his ID while he examines a firearm, and he insisted that he had to do that many times. I'm guessing either some store has that policy or there was a pre-preemption ordinance to that effect.

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Not an OC story but I had a customer insist that the law in Fairfax required him to surrender his ID just to hold a firearm in a gun store. :shock:
    I haven't heard that one before. So did you take it from him?
    They do that incase he runs out the door with an $1200 kimber, you dont have to chase him to far. Just wait till he gets home!

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    I have had to show my ID to hold a handgun before, that was only to prove that i was 21, and if you dont own a gun and rent one at a range then they will hold your ID in the guns place, but the gun store i always go to (A&P Lynnhaven) everyone of the employees there OC, and it would be pretty damn hard to run out with anything worth anything. I dunno, makes some sense though, i just dont think too many people are that stupid. If you think about it, why dont more stores that carry expensive items do that? Ive never surrendered my ID to look at or hold jewelry before, even when the clerk left me and my gf at the time alone to talk...hmmm

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    1st freedom wrote:
    VAopencarry wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Not an OC story but I had a customer insist that the law in Fairfax required him to surrender his ID just to hold a firearm in a gun store. :shock:
    I haven't heard that one before. So did you take it from him?
    They do that incase he runs out the door with an $1200 kimber, you dont have to chase him to far. Just wait till he gets home!
    Not much protection if thats the case, how much does a fake ID cost? I'm pretty sure a lot less than even a KelTec.

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    BlueJ, I agree with most of your rant. I can't stand having my freedoms infringed on at every turn by unconstitutional laws. Thank you for your service to our country. I will take this opportunity to unashamedly put a plug for the Constitution Party. If you believe in Christian principles, limited government and strict originalist interpretation of the constitution, then check out this, the largest third party in America.

    Every American has a duty to be involved, whether Democrat, Republican, or any other party. Get out and vote, and if you don't, then you can't complain.

    As far as OC stories, I was OCin in Wal-Mart in Salem, VA and was just shopping around, minding my own business. I was in sporting goods when I was approached by the store manager who asked me if I had a permit for my gun. I was carrying a Ruger P89 9mm (I can't afford the nice guns yet). I informed him that no permit was required for OC in VA. He told me that one customer had complained about a man carrying a gun, so he was asking me to conceal. He also told me that if I refused, he would geta Salem LEO to explain the law to me. Rather than create a scene, I untucked my shirt and concealed (I have a CHP). I don't know if one person complaining is enough to warrant him approaching me in that manner. Anyone have any suggestions?

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    shdwrdr,

    maybe you should have told the manager to call the LEO, and to make sure the manager stayed and listened. then again, you take your chances with the LEO actually knowing the law too. could be a good opportunity to educate.

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    shdwrdr- next time, politely tell the manager to "geta Salem LEO to explain the law" (resist the urge to tell him that HE is the one that doesn't understand it). The LEO will show up and inform the manager that legally there is nothing he can do as a LEO but the manager has the right to ask him to leave. If the manager asks you leave, take it up with his corporate office. Search OCDO for Wal-Mart and you'll see some past instance where people have found out from corporate offices that Wal-Mart has no official policy against legally carried firearms and that store managers do not have the authority to ask a person to leave for carrying. One thread even includes an .mp3 file of a voicemail from a Walmart rep stating all of this (but I don't know if we ever determined if she was representing Walmart in general or the Peninsula stores).

    Oh and welcome to the community!!

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    shdwrdr- next time, politely tell the manager to "geta Salem LEO to explain the law" (resist the urge to tell him that HE is the one that doesn't understand it). The LEO will show up and inform the manager that legally there is nothing he can do as a LEO but the manager has the right to ask him to leave. If the manager asks you leave, take it up with his corporate office. Search OCDO for Wal-Mart and you'll see some past instance where people have found out from corporate offices that Wal-Mart has no official policy against legally carried firearms and that store managers do not have the authority to ask a person to leave for carrying. One thread even includes an .mp3 file of a voicemail from a Walmart rep stating all of this (but I don't know if we ever determined if she was representing Walmart in general or the Peninsula stores).

    Oh and welcome to the community!!
    I respectfully disagree. It would be less confrontational to comply with the request. Then speak to the general manager. Then corporate if no satisfaction at the store level. This only addresses the sequence. What you say will be just as important.

    We know from experience on this board that police too often give incorrect or biased information. The last thing you would want is an ignorant or gun-control-supportive LEO to arrive and back up the manager bylecturing you publicly against OC.

    Like it or not, public acceptance ofOC is not universal.Wehave to deal with it. Changingperceptions back by being good ambassadors is part of the game.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Disagreement respectfully noted. I think you can still do what I recommended an be "a good ambassador". Its all about what you say and how you say it.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Like it or not, public acceptance ofOC is not universal.Wehave to deal with it. Changingperceptions back by being good ambassadors is part of the game.
    Whoa, that's well said, citizen. Very well said.

    Hard to do for some, though.

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    Leaving quietly and contacting corporate with "the dirt" may be the most effective route. I thought the "women's reproductive rights" was a hot-button issue until I started CC'ing & occasionally OC'ing.

    I've re-opened my "Can o' Suntrust Worms" regarding opencarry, which loosely parallels this.

    Two Suntrust branches don't seem to care, the one closest to my home is anti-CC & anti-OC. I politely asked the corporate office to mail me *ANY* policy that prohibited lawful carry, and so far they mailed the 40 page customer agreement (in microprint), which contains NO mention of the policy

    The thing that irks me is "some of the companies" spout off "it's against the rules" and "it's against policy", and then even their attorneys can't produce documentation of the rule.

    Nobody seems to want to document these policies, maybe to avoid the ire of the NRA membership(which is large), yet managers quote them like folklore.. It's a great story, but without any evidence of fact.

    Record your phone calls (it's legal in Virginia if at least 1 party is aware of the recording)..

    Citizen wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    shdwrdr- next time, politely tell the manager to "geta Salem LEO to explain the law" (resist the urge to tell him that HE is the one that doesn't understand it). The LEO will show up and inform the manager that legally there is nothing he can do as a LEO but the manager has the right to ask him to leave. If the manager asks you leave, take it up with his corporate office. Search OCDO for Wal-Mart and you'll see some past instance where people have found out from corporate offices that Wal-Mart has no official policy against legally carried firearms and that store managers do not have the authority to ask a person to leave for carrying. One thread even includes an .mp3 file of a voicemail from a Walmart rep stating all of this (but I don't know if we ever determined if she was representing Walmart in general or the Peninsula stores).

    Oh and welcome to the community!!
    I respectfully disagree. It would be less confrontational to comply with the request. Then speak to the general manager. Then corporate if no satisfaction at the store level. This only addresses the sequence. What you say will be just as important.

    We know from experience on this board that police too often give incorrect or biased information. The last thing you would want is an ignorant or gun-control-supportive LEO to arrive and back up the manager bylecturing you publicly against OC.

    Like it or not, public acceptance ofOC is not universal.Wehave to deal with it. Changingperceptions back by being good ambassadors is part of the game.

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    Anyways... Anybody else got any new stories? Im out on the boat for another week and cant OC anywhere here (Duh) I need a good laugh..help me out.

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    Did you hear the one about the squib stuck on the boat for a week but he couldn't....? (Sorry, USMC humor.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
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    Citizen wrote:
    Did you hear the one about the squib stuck on the boat for a week but he couldn't....? (Sorry, USMC humor.)
    Ok.. as a former Marine and a more resent former Doc i get the first shot at this...

    Squib or squid? spell check there Devildog.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Did you hear the one about... 3 squids and a Marine are sitting at a bar........
    sorry just had to pile on
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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