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Thread: Did you know?

  1. #1
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    A buddy of mine turned in his paperwork for his CHP in Newport News. A week or so later he got a phone call from the clerk of courts saying that he had to appear before a judge because he falseified the document. On the misdemeanor or felony line he checked no but he had a reckless driving ticket a bout 3 years ago. Did anyone else know that a traffic violation was a misdemeanor. I didnt I was completly surprised that it would show up I didnt think they coinsided.

    Any feedback would be helpful.

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    I'd tell your friend to call an attorney....today.





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    ^ Seconded.

    I've lived in 3 different states and moving traffic violations were always a summary offense, not a misdemeanor. I'd definitely have your friend contact someone to find out what it really is.

    If it DOES turn out to be a misdemeanor charge (which is stupid because it seems that ANYTIME a vehicle is in an accident or leaves the road, even if it wasn't their fault they get that charge slapped onto them), your friend could plead ignorance because he didn't know at the time he filled out the application that it was a misdemeanor charge.

    If it is, that's a strike against VA in my book. I've heard from friends that they hand issue those charges like candy.

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    Harryhood - not all traffic violations are misdemeanors. In VA, Reckless driving is.

    § 46.2-868. Reckless driving[/b];

    A. Every person convicted of reckless driving[/b] under the provisions of this article shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. Every person convicted ofreckless driving[/b] under the provisions of this article who, when he committed the offense, (i) was driving without a valid operator's license due to a suspension or revocation for a moving violation and, (ii) as the sole and proximate result of his stylereckless driving[/b], caused the death of another, is guilty of a Class 6 felony.

    72 Malibu states "which is stupid because it seems that ANYTIME a vehicle is in an accident or leaves the road, even if it wasn't their fault they get that charge slapped onto them" I've been in two accidents (1 pretty serious 5 cars, 3 taken to the hospital, 1 in serious condition) and have never been charged with reckless driving. Nor have any of my aquaintances.

    In a lot of the threads on OCDO, members keep stating that "Ignoranceof the law is no excuse" (especially dealing with LEOs not knowing the open carry laws). Why should Harryhood's buddy receive special treatment? The sad part is, doing the research and answering the question correctly in this case would NOT have led to his CHP being denied.

  5. #5
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    In Virginia, Reckless Driving is a criminal offense as mentioned earlier. It is easy to charge someone with this in Virginia and if it is not reduced at the hearing it is on your record. You need a lawyer to help you. I assume it was not intentional so a lawyer can assist you.

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    I had a reckless driving ticket (apparently it was, it said unsafe speed for road conditions on the ticket cause i wrecked my car in the rain on 264, but when i saw it on the criminal/traffic clerks computer it said reckless) when i did the paperwork for my CHP, i said no to all of that stuff.

    I got a letter a few weeks later that my permit was denied because of criminal record. I tried to find out why and what record they were talking about. They showed me that they got something from Indiana where i was arrested for battery in like 2003 (i got jumped by a deputy sherrif and his nephew in a small town where "i dont know you, so your going to jail" kinda mentality prevails)

    The charges were diverted and dissmissed then but the VA courts didnt have any proof of that. I had to go back to indiana (which i was doin anyways for my after-cruise leave) talked to my old lawyer and got some paperwork showing that my charges were dismissed.

    I got a "ore-tenus" hearing set, which wasnt hard,they just took my name and gave me a date,went to see a judge, showed him the paper saying my charges were dismissed and he said hed approve my permit, nothing about the reckless driving ticket whatsoever and i got it in 2004.

    I dont know why they deniedhis for that, they didnt do it to me, i would get a hearing set up, then just explain to the judge thathis misdomeanor was not becausehe were a criminal, it was just a driving ticket (so long as it wasnt a DUI) and if he can prove that it was dismissed or diverted or whatever the judge will probably say OK.

    If you have any more questions i would either talk to a lawyer or do what i did and just run around the courthouse talking to different clerks until you could find one who could give you an answer.

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    PackininVB wrote:
    I dont know why they deniedhis for that, they didnt do it to me, i would get a hearing set up, then just explain to the judge thathis misdomeanor was not becausehe were a criminal, it was just a driving ticket (so long as it wasnt a DUI) and if he can prove that it was dismissed or diverted or whatever the judge will probably say OK.
    Where does it say in the original post that his buddies CHP was denied?

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    PackininVB wrote:
    I dont know why they deniedhis for that, they didnt do it to me, i would get a hearing set up, then just explain to the judge thathis misdomeanor was not becausehe were a criminal, it was just a driving ticket (so long as it wasnt a DUI) and if he can prove that it was dismissed or diverted or whatever the judge will probably say OK.
    Where does it say in the original post that his buddies CHP was denied?
    I think it was implied on the first post when his friend was called to talk to the courts. BTW PackingVB your wrong about your comment about the DUI. You can still get a permit with a DUI. You just have to wait for three years.

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    Implied or assumed? I asked for the same reason you stated regarding the DUI.

    Per VSP website:
    An individual who has been convicted of two or more misdemeanors within the five-year period immediately preceding the application, if one of the misdemeanors was a Class 1 misdemeanor, but the judge shall have the discretion to deny a permit for two or more misdemeanors that are not Class 1. Traffic infractions or reckless driving shall not be considered for purposes of this disqualification.

    So I guess the question goes back to Harryhood for clarification:
    Was you buddies CHP denied based on the reckless driving conviction. If yes, then tell him to call a lawyer and the VCDL.

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    Sounds like it could be a case of a judge just being an ass or doesn't know the requirements.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Depending on the answer to my clarification question above VAopencarry, I agree!!

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    Desertdoc wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    PackininVB wrote:
    I dont know why they deniedhis for that, they didnt do it to me, i would get a hearing set up, then just explain to the judge thathis misdomeanor was not becausehe were a criminal, it was just a driving ticket (so long as it wasnt a DUI) and if he can prove that it was dismissed or diverted or whatever the judge will probably say OK.
    Where does it say in the original post that his buddies CHP was denied?
    I think it was implied on the first post when his friend was called to talk to the courts. BTW PackingVB your wrong about your comment about the DUI. You can still get a permit with a DUI. You just have to wait for three years.
    True, i was just saying that if the infraction was less than three years and traffic related then a DUI would get a permit denied, and a simple reckless driving (such as going 20+mph over the limit) shouldnt get it denied. And if the courst said that he falsified the CHP dcument then that pretty much means they are denying it, although they never said that i falsified anything even though i put no to the misdomeanor question, it just said denied due to criminal record which i later proved had been dismissed and got my permit.


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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Traffic infractions or reckless driving shall not be considered for purposes of this disqualification.
    I thought i had seen something like this which is why i wasnt worried about any of my tickets, but i looked on the application and it didnt say anything about it. Where did you find this?

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    72 Malibu states "which is stupid because it seems that ANYTIME a vehicle is in an accident or leaves the road, even if it wasn't their fault they get that charge slapped onto them" I've been in two accidents (1 pretty serious 5 cars, 3 taken to the hospital, 1 in serious condition) and have never been charged with reckless driving. Nor have any of my aquaintances.
    Hmm. I have a good friend who was driving along I64. I don't know what happened, but up ahead something did that caused all of the traffic to brake hard. There was a truck driver behind her who couldn't get stopped in time and ran his rig off of the road to avoid hitting and crushing the cars in front of him, more than likely saving peopes' lives.

    When the police showed up, they slapped the driver of the rig with a "reckless driving" charge. Several people who witnessed what happened offered to help pay for the fine and pleaded with the officer not to issue the charge as the driver probably saved lives in doing what he did, but the police officer told them that it's standard for them to issue them when a vehicle leaves the road as it shows the driver didn't keep their vehicle under control.

    Maybe that officer was just full of it. That's what I based my statement on. I haven't been in an accident in VA or ran my vehicle off of the road (except when offroading), so I can't say based on personal experience.

    What then constitutes issuance of a reckless driving charge? Too fast for conditions? Driving aggressively/erratically? etc?

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    72 Malibu - In VA, the general rule for reckless driving is:

    Irrespective of the maximum speeds permitted by law, any person who drives a vehicle on any highway recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving.

    Definitely a section of the code that the officer at the scene has a lot of discrection over applying based on the situation at hand. Sure you're going to be able to point out situations where the the officer charged the driver with reckless driving....I wasn't trying to say that nobody ever gets charged with it, but saying "they issue those charges like candy" may be stretching it a little bit. In the situation you used as an example, I don't see any information presented that shows the truck driver should NOT have been charged with reckless driving.

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    No his CHP has not been denied as of yet he has to go to court next monday I dont think it is the fact of the ticket i think the problem is the box he checked.

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    Thanks for the clarification Harryhood. Is he thinking about hiring a lawyer?

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    dont know for sure havent talked to him since friday.

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    Allright, Mike's the law student so maybe he'll be able to shed some light on this. For some reason, this whole scenario bothers me. According to the VSP CHP application:

    I, THE UNDERSIGNED, AFFIRM THAT THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS APPLICATION AND IN ANY ATTACHMENTS TO THIS DOCUMENT IS BOTH CORRECT AND COMPLETE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE. THE WILLFUL MAKING OF A FALSE STATEMENT IN THIS APPLICATION CONSTITUTES PERJURY AND IS PUNISHABLE IN ACCORDANCE WITH § 18.2-434 OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA.

    18.2-434 States:

    If any person to whom an oath is lawfully administered on any occasion willfully swears falsely on such occasion touching any material matter or thing, or if a person falsely make oath that any other person is 18 years of age or older in order to obtain a marriage license for such other person, or if any person in any written declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury pursuant to § 8.01-4.3 willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe is true, he is guilty of perjury, punishable as a Class 5 felony. Upon the conviction of any person for perjury, such person thereby shall be adjudged forever incapable of holding any office of honor, profit or trust under the Constitution of Virginia, or of serving as a juror.

    Both the CHP application and the Virginia code uses the word willfully. I would think thatit would be easy for Harryhood's buddy to show that he did not "wilffully" make a false statement because he knew that even by answering yes, it would not disqualify his permit application. See my point? Let me try again.......He answered the question "NO" because he honestly thought that reckless driving was not a misdemeanor (vice answering the question "NO" because he really wanted to get his permit ).

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Definitely a section of the code that the officer at the scene has a lot of discrection over applying based on the situation at hand. Sure you're going to be able to point out situations where the the officer charged the driver with reckless driving....I wasn't trying to say that nobody ever gets charged with it, but saying "they issue those charges like candy" may be stretching it a little bit.
    Agreed, I was just using the phrasing that I heard when it was told to me.

    bayboy42 wrote:
    In the situation you used as an example, I don't see any information presented that shows the truck driver should NOT have been charged with reckless driving.
    Technically, no. BUT, I fail to see any moral and ethical reasons why someone should be "rewarded" with a misdemeanor charge by putting his own life/limb at risk in order to avoid killing/injuring other innocent motorists. I guess he could have just decided to slam the brakes, grit his teeth and brace for impact possibly killing a couple of motorists... than at least he wouldn't have a misdemeanor charge on his record.

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    "Technically, no. BUT, I fail to see any moral and ethical reasons why someone should be "rewarded" with a misdemeanor charge by putting his own life/limb at risk in order to avoid killing/injuring other innocent motorists. I guess he could have just decided to slam the brakes, grit his teeth and brace for impact possibly killing a couple of motorists... than at least he wouldn't have a misdemeanor charge on his record."

    72 Malibu - take a step back and look at it from the flip side. If the truck driver had been maintaing appropriate following distances he would never have had to "put his own life/limb at risk in order to avoid killing/injuring other motorists or even had the possibility for any type of charge. See my point.

    The only reason I chose to say that is because a close friend of mind was involved in a serious accident where the driver should have been cited for reckless driving but wasn't.

    Now back to the realtopic.........anybody have any info on what contitutes the term "Willfully" in the legal world?

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    bayboy42, Private message sent.

    Harryhood, please keep us updated if/when you find out.

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    I had a hard time getting my CHP when I moved here. It was first CHP application. I had moved here from FL, and had a few misdemeanor worthless check charges that were almost 8 years old. I had made restitution on all of them and only two were showing as guilty verdicts. One was a witheld adjudication. I had to appear before the judge in Salem because the court records in FL had been destroyed in accordance with FL law and they were not able to determine whether or not the charges were disqalifying.

    Are there any misdemeanor convictions that disqualify, or does it have to be a felony? And how would one state have a charge be a misdemeanor and another state have the same charge be a felony? That was the question on my application. Fortunately, I was able to prove by the case number that it was a misdemeanor, and I received my CHP in 2004.

  24. #24
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    "And how would one state have a charge be a misdemeanor and another state have the same charge be a felony?"

    Easy, States have different laws. How would a regular citizen know? not so easy,hire a lawyer.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    It is the incorrect filling out of the form that is the issue. Not the permit!!

    I bet the issuance of the permit doesn't come up....but that the incorrect PERJURED answer does.

    The judge is bringing him in to discuss his Perjury!!!!

    TAKE AN ATTORNEY!!!!(at least call and discuss it with one first!!)

    Sure it was an "honest mistake" that you didn't know your traffic ticket was a misdemeanor, but do you want to try to talk your way out of this in front of the judge in the court that you perjured yourself???





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