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Thread: Some States Put Untrained Cops on Duty

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    "Four months into his job, a police officer in Mississippi holds a gun to the head of an unarmed teenager and puts him in a chokehold. A rookie officer in Illinois gets into a car chase that kills a driver. And a new campus policeman in Indiana shoots an unarmed student to death.
    Some are blaming these harrowing episodes on what an Associated Press survey found is a common practice across the country: At least 30 states let some newly hired local law enforcement officers hit the streets with a gun, a badge and little or no training."

    Read the rest of the article here.



    I wonder if some of the Manassas City Officers fall into this category. That would explain a lot, wouldn't it?

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    most police schools are only 2-3 months long anyway? are they saying these cops did not go through cop school?

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    Well I start the academy on the 2nd of April and will graduate on the 24th of August, then 3 to 6 months of direct supervision and up to one year probationary period.

    That seems like a fair amount of training after my 20 year in the military.

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    I hope those localities have their liability insurance paid up.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    VA allows an officer to work for 12 months before going to the academy.



    Goliath

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    Must be nice leaving out facts just to support your point of view, Goliath. In Virginia, a person may be hired by the department up to a year before starting the police academy, however, they do NOT work as police officers duringthat time. They are considered pre hires and work only in administrative duties. Get your facts straight before posting.

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    nirom0125 wrote:
    Must be nice leaving out facts just to support your point of view, Goliath. In Virginia, a person may be hired by the department up to a year before starting the police academy, however, they do NOT work as police officers duringthat time. They are considered pre hires and work only in administrative duties. Get your facts straight before posting.
    Hey nirom0125 - you must be an anti or a LEO because people around here typically don't include such an abrasive attitude on their FIRST post (whether right or wrong).

    Try this next time....politely point Goliath to the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services webstie where with a little searching, he will read:

    VI. PROBATION
    A. All newly-hired officers shall be considered on probation for one year from the date
    of employment. The same probationary period applies to officers hired through
    lateral entry.
    B. The date of employment for officers generally never exceeds 30 days before the
    beginning of a basic academy class to which the appointee has been assigned. If the
    officer begins work before a basic academy, he or she shall perform non-police
    duties only and shall accompany experienced officers as an observer.


    Then you still get to show you are correct.......but don'tcome off so abrasive. Its a win win approach.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    nirom0125 wrote:
    Must be nice leaving out facts just to support your point of view, Goliath. In Virginia, a person may be hired by the department up to a year before starting the police academy, however, they do NOT work as police officers duringthat time. They are considered pre hires and work only in administrative duties. Get your facts straight before posting.
    Nice first post. Instead of just telling someone they are wrong and accuse them purposefully leaving facts out, try another approach. Drop the hostility, post what you believe to be correct and cite a reference. This way we all learn something.

    Your post does nothing help with the facts and you provide NO source so who are we to believe?

    A. Every law-enforcement officer who is required to comply with the compulsory minimum training standards shall satisfactorily complete such training within 12 months of the date of appointment as a law-enforcement officer.
    This states appointment as a law-enforcement officer doesn't say pre-hire or or appointed to administrative duties or anything else. So how else is one too interpret it?

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+6VAC20-20-40


    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Interesting..... guess I would have to go with CJS's version.

    Seems like Manassas PD does, in fact, use the internet.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    The article said in part:


    Some states like Tennessee, which allows officers six months to attend a training academy, have considered eliminating the grace period, said Brian Grisham, executive secretary of Tennessee's Peace Officers Standards and Training.

    "The days of `Barney Fife, here's your gun and go' are over. You have to be trained first," Grisham said. "There's too much liability."
    This is so weird. I think a cop ought to be trained because of his responsibility.

    They think a cop ought to be trained because of "liability." And this from one of the chief policymakers of the state in matters of standards and training.

    You see the disconnect here? You see why I want the people to keep a tight rein on the government?

    Could we get a response from a state policy maker? Could we maybe send a response to this Grisham guy under the organization's letterhead?



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    Good catch, League.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
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    nirom0125 wrote:
    Must be nice leaving out facts just to support your point of view, Goliath. In Virginia, a person may be hired by the department up to a year before starting the police academy, however, they do NOT work as police officers duringthat time. They are considered pre hires and work only in administrative duties. Get your facts straight before posting.
    Must be nice being a braying ******* who doesn't back up his facts either. Obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or you have never been around a rural sheriffs office or small town PD. Let me guess, your either from Northern VA, or from up north, same difference really. Before you try bashing me, get your own facts straight to support YOUR arguement.

    Goliath

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    Perhaps because of the fact that the only reason that they are training them is because they are a "liability". I think in this country nowadays thats the only thing some of these agencies understand anymore. They don't function to police themselves, whether its a corperation, a 3 letter agency, or a small town police department. They just understand terms like "lawsuit" and "civil litigation" as well as "media frenzy". Leadership has failed here...

    Perhaps back in the day it might have been easier to put Barney Fife on the street with a badge gun and handcuffs, but nowadays I think not. Police respond to everything from terrorist hostage situations to snakes in a house. The constitutional rights of citizens are much more complex now as well after hundreds of years of supreme court rulings and incidents that have taken place... from the time this country started until the present.

    Theres alot of grey area's... as well. For example, Auxillary Police Departments. Theres alot of police departments that have auxillary or volunteer police force. People who hold limited powers, but at the same time are power of the police and government. Has the same authority as a regular law enforcement official but doesnt get paid to do it as a full time job.

    I think that police can be ok, and then there are other police officers that think they are above the law, or enforce it how they see fit, not how its written to be enforced. There are cops out there who also write their own law.

    I think that dispatchers should go through some sort of law training as well.... A prime example is in the case of the Manasas 7.... If the dispatcher had known the law, they could have stopped wasting the time of 911 with calls of people questioning what the law is... Should an emergency number be used to educate the masses on the finer points of gun laws?

    The biggest thing I see is that these police departments, who are put there to enforce the laws that are made, not a big deal, have dissassociated themselves from the communities in which they serve. The fact that they feel that they are not held accountable to the citizens in which they were hired to protect. Why it takes protests, lawsuits, and town council meetings to FIX an organization in which it should already be held to some sort of standard because they are in fact the "model citizens". They are a representation of the community and the government. Their personal integrity, character, fitness, and judgement and common sense along with their honed street smarts should be above reproach. They should not only enforce the law but promote good citizenship by educating the community on laws and their constitutional rights.

    For example a police chief using his status as a chief, colonel, sheriff, to view his point on gun laws, and what the law should be. Or try and speak to the media for the people by telling them that the guns are the cause of crime in the district of columbia, and the people do not need to have them, like he know's whats best. Nobody questions that?

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    ProtectMd wrote:
    I think that dispatchers should go through some sort of law training as well.... A prime example is in the case of the Manasas 7.... If the dispatcher had known the law, they could have stopped wasting the time of 911 with calls of people questioning what the law is... Should an emergency number be used to educate the masses on the finer points of gun laws?


    A dispatchers job is not to interpret or enforce law. They are simply there to send police/fire/medical units to a location at the request of the caller. If someone calls and says their car is broken down at ABC Chicken Market in the parking lot and is requesting an officer come out and see if he can fix it, the dispatcher can tell the person that the officer won't be able to do anything but, if the person still wants to see an officer the dispatcher is REQUIRED (under most department's policies) to send an officer.

    The dispatcher in the Tony's incident did an excellent job in advising the person that open carry is legal, but the RP still requested an officer so she had to send them (notice in the recording she only dispatched one officer and all the others jumped the call)

    And to touch on the untrained officers, my department will not allow a new hire on the street until their CLEET trainingis completed. A couple of new hires have been allowed to work in dispatch while waiting to go to CLEET, however.

    -Klemmt


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