Knights of Columbus

BobCav · Mar 5, 2007

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Are there any other Brother Knights of Columbus here and has anyone ever OC'ed to a meeting? Knights of Columbus halls throughout the country are known for having gun raffles, firearm training and the such, so I'm certain there's no anti-gun policy within the Knights proper.

Meetings are formally called business meetings and are usually in an auxiliary room at the Church and though they may have religious elements they arenotreligious worship meetings at all.

All that said, OCshould be allowed as the "property owner" is technically the archdiocese and not readily available to say "nay, thou art trepassing". Of course the father (though not normally present at the meetings) could always request me to leave and that would leave me in an awkward position.

Bob
Knights of Columbus

Citizen · Mar 5, 2007

imported post

In that you're dealing with the home of a much higher power thana mere State, I suspect this would warrant prayer for guidance--and a polite discussion with clergy.

Even then I might take a hard look at the circumstances of the meetings to see how 18.2-283 might be applied by someone antagonistic to firearms, say another parishoner who is not a KoC member but finds out about it:

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-283

BobCav · Mar 5, 2007

imported post

Citizen, thanks. Nice reply.There is no way this could be misconstrued as religious worship at all. This is strictly abusiness meeting and publically poted as such,so there is no violation of that code. It should be ok. I guess tomorrow night I'll find out. If it comes to going "naked" for a night, I guess that's how it has to be. As you said, there's a "higher authority" to answer to!

DreQo · Mar 16, 2007

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Not sure how related this would be, but I recently met with a Mason at his lodge while I was open carrying. It was before their "meeting", but as people showed up, not a single person cared. One older gentleman asked if I was LE, but only out of curiosity. I wasn't sure how I'd be received, but I didn't even get that "uncomfortable stare".

BobCav · Mar 16, 2007

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The KofC is different as it's a Catholic organization and because the meetings are on Church property, though not IN church or during worship service, might still cause a stir. We'll see at the next meeting, I guess!

Fusil · Mar 27, 2007

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I presume that you know this, but I'll post it for those who may not be aware of the Church's teaching on self defence.

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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Legitimate defense
2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... The one is intended, the other is not."[65]

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.[65]

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]

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Useful for telling fellow Catholics what's what. I've had some surprising reactions:exclaim:

BobCav · Mar 28, 2007

imported post

Eoin wrote:

I presume that you know this, but I'll post it for those who may not be aware of the Church's teaching on self defence.

--------------------------------------------------------

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Legitimate defense
2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... The one is intended, the other is not."[65]

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.[65]

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]

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Useful for telling fellow Catholics what's what. I've had some surprising reactions:exclaim:

Great stuff Eoin, thanks for posting that!I did know it,but hadn't read the actual canon. I'll certainly save that one.

This canon speaks to the truth of the matter that the 6th commandment is too often misquoted. It reads "Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder" and never said the word kill.I've had to have that conversation all too often.

Knights of Columbus

BobCav

Founder's Club Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

BobCav

Founder's Club Member

DreQo

State Researcher

BobCav

Founder's Club Member

Fusil

New member

BobCav

Founder's Club Member