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Thread: OC'ing at Manassas Gun Show

  1. #1
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    i was at the gun show in manassas va today. everyone had to have their guns zip tied before going in. i was open carrying my 9, walked up to the counter, and had the guy run a zip tie through it. i closed the slide as far as it would go, reholstered it (open carrying), and went shopping for ammunition.
    when i went to leave the show, i went up to the same guy who'd zip tied my gun and asked if he would clip the zip tie for me because i'm leaving. he said sure, then saw me draw it from my holster. he clipped the zip tie, then asked if i had a concealed weapons permit. i said no, open carry. he paused for a second, then turned around to the cop that was standing behind him (prince william county police officer). the cop gave a nod and said "yeah that's open carry" and i walked off.

    you'd think someone working an event like that would know. guess not.

    i'm just posting this to show that there is still a lot of uninformed people out there, even at gun shows.

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    Add, uninformed people in the gun world who don't know better than to ask a cop. They give wrong and biased answers too often to gun questions.

    Itmightbe beneficial to e-mail the gunshow promoter and let them know they might want to tune up their staff training a little bit. Maybe cite some law and the VA State Police website regarding open carry for them.

    Ipersonally might even drop a hint that, as a customer, I don't appreciate being exposed to police intervention by a thoughtless staffmember. Remember that the police officer mightnot know the law or might have the law sideways. It wouldhave been betterfor the staff to just ignore it, and ask the copafter you were well gone. Imagine the gun world's reaction to the gunshow promoter if you had beenTerry stopped or arrested by a policeofficer who didn't know the law.

    I'd also findout why there was a cop standing there in the first place. Does Manassas have a new discrimination campaign going?Or was it something innocent like the gunshow promoter hiring an off-duty cop for eventsecurity?


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    the show was held in a couple of buildings. everyone parked on the grass then walked to one of the buildings. outside of the building is where people were paying admission (6$) andstaffwere ziptieing guns. there were 2 prince william county police cars there at the outdoor entrance, parked inside the gate.

    it was the only police presence i saw. the cops weren't checking out the guns, handling them, or anything else, they just seemed like they were standing there doing nothing.

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    Citizen wrote:
    I'd also findout why there was a cop standing there in the first place. Does Manassas have a new discrimination campaign going?Or was it something innocent like the gunshow promoter hiring an off-duty cop for eventsecurity?


    Many businesses, shopping centers, and big shows hire off duty police officers to work security for them. They must first be approved by the department and actually fill out an application.

    The officer's job there was to make sure someone did not try to run off with items on display. At every gun show I have seen.... someone has lost a pistol by turning around for a second. None have actually did a mad dash for the door with the cop standing there.

    The officer is being paid for a specific duty and not looking for anything outside of that. He is getting paid to stand there and that is all he really wants to do for the next 4-6 hours.

    He is normally told by his employer.. the event manager... what they want him to do. If he was to lock people up for other minor stuff... he would not be there to guard the front door.


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    I have to give Prince William County Officers, and Dumfries Officers credit for knowing the laws.

    I know I'm bring something on myself, but every officer I have met or seen from those places have know the laws. I have had the PWC police called on me multiple times, but have never seen an officer because of it. I talk with some Dumfries officers while carrying because I had to pull my gun at home one night (in the driveway as the family was unloading).

    The only way I know is the person who called had a need to tell me they had called. Each time I asked what was said - the were told "I was within my rights..."

    I guess there were trying to scare me or something. I have a high level of confidence in PWC and Dumfries police officers in relation to carry laws.



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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    I'd also findout why there was a cop standing there in the first place. Does Manassas have a new discrimination campaign going?Or was it something innocent like the gunshow promoter hiring an off-duty cop for eventsecurity?

    The officer's job there was to make sure someone did not try to run off with items on display. At every gun show I have seen.... someone has lost a pistol by turning around for a second. None have actually did a mad dash for the door with the cop standing there.

    Nice try LEO 229. I suggested finding out why the police were there. This is different than speculating, something I already did.

    What is your source for the above-quoted declaration of the officer's purpose?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Flowmaster wrote:
    i was at the gun show in manassas va today. everyone had to have their guns zip tied before going in. i was open carrying my 9, walked up to the counter, and had the guy run a zip tie through it. i closed the slide as far as it would go, reholstered it (open carrying), and went shopping for ammunition.
    when i went to leave the show, i went up to the same guy who'd zip tied my gun and asked if he would clip the zip tie for me because i'm leaving. he said sure, then saw me draw it from my holster. he clipped the zip tie, then asked if i had a concealed weapons permit. i said no, open carry. he paused for a second, then turned around to the cop that was standing behind him (prince william county police officer). the cop gave a nod and said "yeah that's open carry" and i walked off.

    you'd think someone working an event like that would know. guess not.

    i'm just posting this to show that there is still a lot of uninformed people out there, even at gun shows.
    I had some inane conversation with the person who tied my weapon. He wouldn't rack the slide - and I really wanted to say "Ok, tie it without".


    But since there were also signs all over saying "NO CONCEALED WEAPONS" - if he thought you were concealing, he shouldn't have let you in there in the first place.


    And their flyer said "NO LOADED WEAPONS - NO EXCEPTIONS" In reality, I saw at least half a dozen LEOs in there with loaded weapons. Apparently there were exeptions.

    Good thing we found the final piece to my husband's collection of Blackhawks, or I'd have been even more ticked about that show.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Citizen wrote:

    Nice try LEO 229. I suggested finding out why the police were there. This is different than speculating, something I already did.

    What is your source for the above-quoted declaration of the officer's purpose?


    MyIn-Laws did this all the time when they held auctions in down town Richmond. The LEO would even walk the customers who bought high dollar items to their car. They usually got the same officer.

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    cs9c1 wrote:
    MyIn-Laws did this all the time when they held auctions in down town Richmond. The LEO would even walk the customers who bought high dollar items to their car. They usually got the same officer.
    Ya...I have worked events like this and other off duty employment. I wouldalso escort people to the bank for the big money drop. I was never there create any problems for customers. I am getting paid to stand around on my day off and scare off bad guys. Sweet deal!

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    cs9c1 wrote:
    MyIn-Laws did this all the time when they held auctions in down town Richmond. The LEO would even walk the customers who bought high dollar items to their car. They usually got the same officer.
    Ya...I have worked events like this and other off duty employment. I wouldalso escort people to the bank for the big money drop. I was never there create any problems for customers. I am getting paid to stand around on my day off and scare off bad guys. Sweet deal!
    From what I hear, the department that I will be starting at next week, runs radar for the State police on 295 for overtime.

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    cs9c1 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    cs9c1 wrote:
    MyIn-Laws did this all the time when they held auctions in down town Richmond. The LEO would even walk the customers who bought high dollar items to their car. They usually got the same officer.
    Ya...I have worked events like this and other off duty employment. I wouldalso escort people to the bank for the big money drop. I was never there create any problems for customers. I am getting paid to stand around on my day off and scare off bad guys. Sweet deal!
    From what I hear, the department that I will be starting at next week, runs radar for the State police on 295 for overtime.
    Be sure to invite me to your graduation!!

    I like off duty overtime better... you make more and do less.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    cs9c1 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    cs9c1 wrote:
    MyIn-Laws did this all the time when they held auctions in down town Richmond. The LEO would even walk the customers who bought high dollar items to their car. They usually got the same officer.
    Ya...I have worked events like this and other off duty employment. I wouldalso escort people to the bank for the big money drop. I was never there create any problems for customers. I am getting paid to stand around on my day off and scare off bad guys. Sweet deal!
    From what I hear, the department that I will be starting at next week, runs radar for the State police on 295 for overtime.
    Be sure to invite me to your graduation!!

    I like off duty overtime better... you make more and do less.


    I though LEO's were on salary. Perhaps it varies.

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    For the normally scheduled work week, yes. But most departments have a certain amount of overtime funds. Then there is off duty overtime from private company's, that is paid by that company. In Florida allot of car dealerships, and fast food places in bad neighborhoods hired LEO's on their off duty time to stand around or sit around in uniform.

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    cs9c1 wrote:
    For the normally scheduled work week, yes. But most departments have a certain amount of overtime funds. Then there is off duty overtime from private company's, that is paid by that company. In Florida allot of car dealerships, and fast food places in bad neighborhoods hired LEO's on their off duty time to stand around or sit around in uniform.
    UNIFORMS... That must be where the Tony's 7 messed up.:what:

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    UNIFORMS... That must be where the Tony's 7 messed up.:what:

    I must be a bit slow, I don't get it.:?

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    SIGarmed229 wrote:
    I though LEO's were on salary. Perhaps it varies.
    We are paid by the hour. In any company when youare paidsalary.... you get paid the same if you work 20, 40, or 60 hours a week. They did that to my wife and then would page her at home at 3AM!! I forced her to turn off the pager. She was not getting paid anything extra to answer the page. Salary = we can take advantage of you!!

    LEOs can work for private companies as secondary employment and are paid hourly. Traditionally it is security guard type work and easy to do. Great for when you first join the department because it is more than you would make working department OT. After your a veteran.... Department OT pays more.



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    cs9c1 wrote:
    I must be a bit slow, I don't get it.:?
    Me either... Hawk... Help us out here..!!! Either we are tired.. or you were when you wrote that!

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    SIGarmed229 wrote:
    I though LEO's were on salary. Perhaps it varies.
    We are paid by the hour. In any company when youare paidsalary.... you get paid the same if you work 20, 40, or 60 hours a week. They did that to my wife and then would page her at home at 3AM!! I forced her to turn off the pager. She was not getting paid anything extra to answer the page. Salary = we can take advantage of you!!

    LEOs can work for private companies as secondary employment and are paid hourly. Traditionally it is security guard type work and easy to do. Great for when you first join the department because it is more than you would make working department OT. After your a veteran.... Department OT pays more.

    Nice to know, I actually start on the 16th with the HR office, and the academy is from April 2 until August 24th.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    cs9c1 wrote:
    I must be a bit slow, I don't get it.:?
    Me either...* Hawk... Help us out here..!!!* ** Either we are tired.. or you were when you wrote that!
    More likely me (warped sense of humor and all).

    Anyway-

    Tony's was the safest place in Manassas, what with a few armed men sitting there as a deterrent. Not unlike paying an off duty LEO to do the same thing.

    Of course they were not on the payroll at the time, and as civilians they were not in uniforms. BUT had they been wearing uniforms, our "retired marine" friend would never have even given them a second look.

    On a side note this "retired marine" may have done more to advance the cause of citizen carry of firearms in Virginia than anyone single person in recent memory.

    Sorry, I'll get some more coffee

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    keep in mind the police cruisers were there. the tags on police cars (and any county vehicle for that matter, aside from some undercover plain wrappers you see on the beltway and 66) say accross the bottom, between the 2 bolt holes "for official local government use only"

    if they were indeed getting paid to be off site and off the local government's clock, why were the vehicles there? getting paid for a sidejob doesn't seem like a good reason to take the vehicle "for official local government use only".

    when he turned around to get the cop's opinion, i was afraid we were going to have a problem. i could just see it, the cop not knowing about open carry. it would have made for a better story.

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    OK... I haven't chimed in for a while so let me add my 2 cents.

    Technically MOST departments pay by the hour, by technically I mean we don't punch in and out like a normal hourly job, thepayroll department simply pays for a straight 40 (or 80 depending on dept. and FOP) anything over those "normal" hours andwe submit an OT/callback slip andwe will get paid for how ever much OT/callback was worked. I don't know about ALL departments but that is how the majority around here work.

    Now, on to the off duty OT. The term "off duty overtime/jobs" is really not correct becausethey ARE on duty as a police officer.They just don't respond to routine calls and such unless the SHTF. Basically, they have responded to the request of a business to act as a crime deterent and thus, they are on official city/goverment business and allowed to drive their police vehicles.More than likely theyARE getting paid by the dept. if they weren't they most likely would not be allowed to drive their vehicles and especially not be able to wear their uniforms.

    It sounds like the officer understood the law in this situation and the employee at the GUN SHOW (seems like THEY would know better than anyone) didn't... Oh wellhopefully he/she knows now.

    -Klemmt


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    Flowmaster wrote:
    i was at the gun show in manassas va today. everyone had to have their guns zip tied before going in. i was open carrying my 9, walked up to the counter, and had the guy run a zip tie through it. i closed the slide as far as it would go, reholstered it (open carrying), and went shopping for ammunition.
    when i went to leave the show, i went up to the same guy who'd zip tied my gun and asked if he would clip the zip tie for me because i'm leaving. he said sure, then saw me draw it from my holster. he clipped the zip tie, then asked if i had a concealed weapons permit. i said no, open carry. he paused for a second, then turned around to the cop that was standing behind him (prince william county police officer). the cop gave a nod and said "yeah that's open carry" and i walked off.

    you'd think someone working an event like that would know. guess not.

    i'm just posting this to show that there is still a lot of uninformed people out there, even at gun shows.
    Next time, tell him it's none of his damn business whether you have a permit or not. He's not a cop, and he didn't witness you committing a crime, and you were leaving. He has no business sticking his nose into your wallet to look for a permit for any reason.

    I would never have gotten to the point where I told him I wasopen carrying, because the manner in which I carry is not the business of a gunshow employee or anyone else, except for a police officer, and only then if he has a reason to stop and question me.

    You guys went off on a tangent about cops moonlighting or whatever, and lost sight of the original post. Next thing you know, you will feel compelled to prove your lawfullnessto McDonalds clerks and gas station attendants and other Joe Schmos walking down the street.

    Just as it's a good idea to talk nice to people who are just curious, it's also important to immediately cut off someone who is sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. A firm send-off is called for from time to time.

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    Alright folks, here's the skinny on cops at the gunshow.

    I just got off the phone at 5:00 pm with a member of the promoter's association, Virginia Gun Collectors Ass'n. I used the phone number listed for the ass'n.

    They hired Prince William deputies with the Sheriff's approval. Both deputies are very gun-friendly, as is the Sheriff, according to the source to whom I spoke. The source said both deputies are members of VGCA.

    So there you have it. It is no longer in the realm of speculation. Now we know for sure why they were there.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
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    Citizen wrote:
    Alright folks, here's the skinny on cops at the gunshow.

    I just got off the phone at 5:00 pm with a member of the promoter's association, Virginia Gun Collectors Ass'n. I used the phone number listed for the ass'n.

    They hired Prince William deputies with the Sheriff's approval. Both deputies are very gun-friendly, as is the Sheriff, according to the source to whom I spoke. The source said both deputies are members of VGCA.

    So there you have it. It is no longer in the realm of speculation. Now we know for sure why they were there.

    Good job.

  25. #25
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    Citizen wrote:
    So there you have it. It is no longer in the realm of speculation. Now we know for sure why they were there.

    When all else fails...go to the source.

    Great work, Citizen.

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