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Thread: Question about OC in places that sell alcohol in Montana

  1. #1
    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I copied this off of Packing.Org. Does this apply to OC as well? Does the refer to any convenience store that sells beer as well?

    A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if he purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:

    c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for the consumption on the premises. (2) It is not a defense that the person had a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon.



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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    The code clearly states for 'consumption on the premises' license and 'concealed weapon'. Without searching Title 16, the wording here makes it sound as if there are different licenses for on premise consumption and carry-out.

    That which is not prohibited is allowed. If you remove the word concealed, then it would apply to OC too.

    EDIT: I just looked it up. In my reading, it appears there is no license needed for sales of off premise consumption but there is for on premise. Therefore, it would not apply to 'carry-out' retailer's.

    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca_toc/16_3_3.htm
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I guess it can be assumed that if you go into a bar that serves liquor/beer it's a no no to carry concealed but OC is OK. I don't drink or go into to bars anyway, but I do go into carry outs to pay for gas, go grocery shopping etc.... So that where I am concerned with.

    Kind of dumb to go into a bar with a bunch of rowdy drunks while OC anyway. That is a sure place for a gun grab by some local who is feeling "territorial". You know who the police would blame if someone got shot.

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    Are you telling me MT has an open carry requirement like VA?

    We need confirmation.

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    Mike wrote:
    Are you telling me MT has an open carry requirement like VA?

    We need confirmation.
    I'll do my best to look stuff up, but to my knowledge OC would be fine.

    But I'll have to double check with the statutes and whatnot.



    Matt

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    45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:

    (c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
    (2) It is not a defense that the person had a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon. A person convicted of the offense shall be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months or fined an amount not to exceed $500, or both.
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    Like most gun laws, Open Carry isn't addressed. I'm not up for digging through Title 16 of the Montana Code right now, but I will soon (it's quite wordy and long).

    Title 16



    Matt

  7. #7
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    Hi all,

    I am a Montana resident and am not very happy about the carrying concealed where alcohol is served prohibition. I don't drink, but I do eat, and many restaurants serve alcohol. I cannot legally carry concealed into those places. So, I sent this off to the Attorney General's office.

    Hello,

    I understand the law as it applies to concealed carry of a firearm where alcohol is served.

    45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:

    (c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
    (2) It is not a defense that the person had a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon. A person convicted of the offense shall be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months or fined an amount not to exceed $500, or both.

    That is pretty straight forward and simple to understand.

    My question concerns the open carry of a firearm. If I want to carry my firearm with me into a restaurant that serves alcohol can I wear it open and be in compliance with the current law? I would much rather have my pistol with me than take the chance of it being stolen while I am dining.

    I have not been able to find anything that addresses this particular question.

    Thank you for your time with this matter.

    Bob


    And within a couple of days, I received this back:

    Mr. XXXX, There is nothing in Montana law that prohibits the open carry of a weapon into an establishment that serves alcohol. However, most such establishments will not permit any weapons to be brought in. They have the right to prohibit all weapons on their premises, and most do. Sheri Sprigg, Assistant Attorney General



    Now I just need to find out if the restaurants I frequent will have an objection. If they do you can bet they have seen the last of me.



    bob



    ETA: In response to my question whether or not it had to be posted or is verbal notification was sufficient I got this reply back:




    From: Sprigg, Sheri
    Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:31 PM
    To: Contact DOJ
    Subject: RE: Carrying of pistol where alcohol is served?


    [size=][/size]

    Verbal notification by an employee is sufficient. The establishments are private property, and patrons must comply with the proprietor’s request.



    Sheri Sprigg, Assistant Attorney General




    So, there is the answer.

    bob








  8. #8
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    vermonter wrote:
    I guess it can be assumed that if you go into a bar that serves liquor/beer it's a no no to carry concealed but OC is OK. I don't drink or go into to bars anyway, but I do go into carry outs to pay for gas, go grocery shopping etc.... So that where I am concerned with.

    Kind of dumb to go into a bar with a bunch of rowdy drunks while OC anyway. That is a sure place for a gun grab by some local who is feeling "territorial". You know who the police would blame if someone got shot.
    We, here in Utah, can CCW AND OC in a bar full of alcohol as far as I am aware of.

    This is from Packing.Org + my own research doesn't restrict CCW AND OC while in or about Establishments that serve alcohol unless directed otherwise as per below.



    http://www.packing.org/state/utah/#stateoff_limits

    Places off-limits while carrying

    Date updated: Aug 8, 2005 @ 10:14 pm

    From the state's Firearms FAQ:

    It is unlawful for a person with a firearm permit to carry a concealed firearm in the following locations:

    • Any secure area in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition is posted
    • A secure area of an airport
    • Any courthouse, courtroom, mental health facility or correctional facility that may provide by rule that no firearm may be transported, sold, given, or possessed upon the facility. At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to a secure area in which a dangerous weapon, firearm, or explosive is restricted
    • What about private business, can they post signs prohibiting someone from carrying a gun into their business even though the person may have a firearm permit? Naturally, private property owners may apply what ever restrictions they want, whether or not these restrictions violates ones personal rights is for the civil courts to decide. But the only statutory restriction on a permit holder is secured areas such as airports and federal buildings.
    • May I carry my loaded and concealed firearm into a bar or other drinking other establishment? There is nothing in state statute that prohibits permit holders from being in a bar with a concealed firearm. However, it is illegal to be intoxicated and in possession of a firearm. The level of intoxication that is considered illegal is held to the same standard as when driving a car.

  9. #9
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    c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for the consumption on the premises. (2) It is not a defense that the person had a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    My understanding of this, is that you are restricted from a Room that sells alcoholic beverages for consumption.

    For example, places like Applebees or Texas Roadhouse are perfectly legal to CC in as long as you are not in the designated bar roomarea and are in the restaurant area, the term Room implies to actual bars and taverns and designated bar area's.

    It does not say "anyplace" where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption.

    Oh, and hi from Billings.

    Longbow

  10. #10
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    For example, places like Applebees or Texas Roadhouse are perfectly legal to CC in as long as you are not in the designated bar roomarea and are in the restaurant area, the term Room implies to actual bars and taverns and designated bar area's.
    I went through this with the AG. I was informed that it meant the entire restaurant. You can always contact them by email with your question. They are very nice about answering your questions in a timely manner.

    I asked the question because most places that serve alcohol do not restrict it to the bar area. You can still get alcohol at your table.

    bob








  11. #11
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    One interesting thing is that Montana defines concealed carry pretty
    strictly as "wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel
    of the person carrying or bearing the weapon."

    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-315.htm

    So, carrying in your purse is considered OC, and probably your backpack.
    Fanny pack might be okay also.

    gridboy

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