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Thread: I can see why VA "Assclowns" are so active with OC

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    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I got a real lambasting from a VA cop on the forum. He's pissed b/c I think that cops should focus on catching felons and hoodlums instead of writing tickets for expired inspection stickers. No wonder you guys ar so vocal, you have a state full of cops just itching to arrest someone b/c they really don't like OC. It chomps into their ego of being the only ones that have the power. Here in VTI can OC right into a cop shop and not have a second look. Since it is a non-issue I don't. Vermont cops focus on real criminals. Drove around for a YEAR with an expired inspection sticker without a traffic stop. try that in VA!

    Here is what the VT police focus on, illegals comitting crimes. SEND EM HOME NOW:

    http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dl...amp;source=rss

    Tell your police to go after real criminals and not worry about "Assclowns" and people on I-95 going 5 miles over. BTW I spent 6 years in LE '79-'85 (not in VT). Got out b/c of the ********~

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    There are many LEO's in Va that support any method of carry depending on the County you live in. I believe some counties don't see OCers too often so they may stop and ask questions. As the OC movement progresses I believe most of these places that are uneducated about OC will begin to catch on and get retrained on the OC laws of Va. In conclusion I would disagree with your comment that LEO's here dont like OCers.

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    vermonter wrote:
    I got a real lambasting from a VA cop [LEO 229] on the forum. He's pissed b/c I think that cops should focus on catching felons and hoodlums instead of writing tickets for expired inspection stickers. No wonder you guys ar so vocal, you have a state full of cops just itching to arrest someone b/c they really don't like OC. It chomps into their ego of being the only ones that have the power. Here in VTI can OC right into a cop shop and not have a second look. Since it is a non-issue I don't. Vermont cops focus on real criminals. Drove around for a YEAR with an expired inspection sticker without a traffic stop. try that in VA!
    Sir, I am not upset at your notion that cops should focus on "real crime." I am actually rather amused that you feel you should be exempt because you are a blue collar worker.


    I shall paste what you wrote earlier....

    vermonter wrote:


    Why not spend the same energy profiling gang bangers, and finding an excuse to bust someone with a history and propensity to violence. I think there are more than enough drug running, robbing, assaulting gang banging felons out there to go after.
    You have no idea how many times I have heard people tell me that.Criminals are not running ramped where we can spend all day arresting them. You are suggesting I "profile" gang bangers and find "an excuse" to bust someone with a prior criminal history or may have a propensity to violence. I cannot begin to even tell you what is wrong with that!!! You want me to target someone who may actually be a law abiding citizen. The same citizenyou think I should leave alone.


    Our stateis notfull of cops just itching to arrest someone because they really don't like OC. Many officers do not care one way or the other. I actually like the citizens to be armed.

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    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    I am not being nasty, but I am glad you have cleaned up VA so well that criminals are not running rampant there. Well I can tell you here in lil ol green mountain Vermont they are rampant. I worked in a public service industry job where I had a chance to observe the people in our "problem side of town". I can tell you there are more people buying drugs in this town than there are "clean" people. I saw a 55 year old Vermont woman buying chore boys for crack pipe screens, and then saw her make a through the window deal with a "ghetto boy" with Mass plates. I have no problem profiling. I would be glad to give you the details on how to do it, but you would find some reason to dis-agree. They wear ghetto wear, come from Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, NYC, get little white dumb ass Vermont girls hooked on crack and then pimp them for cash. Here in Burlington crack, heroin, Oxy and the associated robberies are an epidemic. I'm Glad it's so squeaky clean where you are that you don't have to prioritize your stops and you has so much free time to write people for expired inspection stickers. I am NOT throwing barbs at you. I am not against you. I'm just sick of drug dealers running around like they own the place. Any yes I am a big TIPSTER to the local SP. I don't take the law into my hands, in fact I avoid trouble by running. I had an attempted robbery and I didn't shoot anyone. All I am saying is there are more problems than the PD wants to admit. they are so afraid if they stop the wrong car that Al Sharpton may visit their community and they will become the sacrificial lamb if they stop the wrong person. I'm not suggesting it's a racial thing...In factALL the people I have seen in VT hooked on drugs are white! Needles to say I quit that job for a minimum wage job that is safer. And I even bribed a local auto shop for a valid inspection sticker. Just don't ask me to get out of the car on the driver's side if I'm ever stopped by you in VA. Do you think I should not eat for a month, be homeless,or sell crack so I can pay the $1,200 to a body shop to get my door to open? I didn't cause the accident! One more thing.... The people who have the $60,000+ per year jobs don't have to bitch like me... You know why? They don't have to live in neighborhoods with Willie crack dealer, they don't struggle to keep a rust bucket legally on the road. I bust my ass and see drug dealers pimpin and selling and getting away with it. I'm sure this problem is 10,000 fold in more populated regions of th country. Do a terry stop, run the dog around the car.... But don't worry about my inspection sticker... It's not the biggest threat to the fabric of our society.... READ THIS: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...WS01/701270311

    And this: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...0305&theme=

    Here is another one: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...D=200770206001

    This guy was out shooting people in VT while Essex PD was writing a ticket. You must read this whole article b/c it references gun control: http://alphecca.com/mt_alphecca_archives/002550.html

    While you have me stopped on I-95 writng me for that sticker one of these is driving by and laughing!

    This is why PD in Vermont doesn't care about inspection stickers. They ave MORE IMPORTANT problems!

    Be SAFE


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    Something to consider...

    About 1 in 10 cars will have something wrong with either the car, its contents, or the people inside it. When I was active LE, we would make traffic stops (once the radio died down) for things like expired tags and burned out tail lights just to play the odds. If I do 10 traffic stops in a shift, chances are I will get one car with drugs, DUI, warrants, or something you would consider "real police work." The traffic stop is really just an excuse to get to talk to someone and probe for that 1 in 10. Remember, that if I don't have reasonable suspicion and I stop you on the street you can just walk away. And dressing like a gangster does NOT reasonable suspicion make.

    1 in 10 was the running average for my resort town jurisdiction, if you live in such a crime ridden area, perhaps the odds are even better.

    A means to an end, my friend.

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    So if you stop me for an expired sticker, and I have no warrants, suspensions or points on my license I can just drive away b/c you don't have reasonable suspicion that I comitted a crime? Or if you find out I am not that one in 10 are you going to just tell me "get that sticker fixd" b/c you know I have a squeaky clean record and I have no contraband on me (Except in NJ where an UNLOADED gun in the trunk is contraband). What ever happened to the Terry Stop where you can search the passenger compartment in my immediate control (and me)for your "safety", and keep me along the road as long as necessary until a dog comes to walk around my car sniff and pee on a tire? Seems to me if a gangster hoodlum refused a search you could use both of those on him. If he had a felony and you found a gun... Right to the Federal Magistrate for his auomatic sentencing. Here's this same guy again.... Felon with a firearm.... http://alphecca.com/mt_alphecca_archives/002550.html

    In case you are too lazy to read the article here is a clip that echos the sentiments of MOST Vermonters including ME!

    Except, it turned out, that something like 90% of these people weren't from the area and were actually drug runners heading down from the Canadian border to NYC and - like the drug runners coming north on I85 at the time - were easily profiled by their low rider cars and the fact they were traveling at 100 mph.

    Anyway, my point in all this is it often seems that when crime actually happens in Vermont it is nearly never the fault of Vermonters. Flatlanders, sometimes. But most often it struck me that crime (or at least violent dangerous crimes) were committed by folks from out of state such as this guy who should have been in jail in Massachussets.

    Posted by: countertop at August 26, 2006 10:03 AM

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    vermonter wrote:
    So if you stop me for an expired sticker, and I have no warrants, suspensions or points on my license I can just drive away b/c you don't have reasonable suspicion that I comitted a crime?
    No, that's not what I am saying. You DID commit a crime, by driving on an expired sticker. It is for that reason, and that reason alone that I pull you over. If you are the 1 in 10 and something else comes of it later, then fine. But I may NOT pull you over because you fit a "profile," I have to have reasonable suspicion you committed a crime (your car matches a witness discription of the hit-and-run driver) or I witnessed you commit a crime (like driving on an expired sticker or speeding 68/55). If I pull you over without one of those two things and there's 10 pounds of coke in your wheel well, guess what... you got a get out of jail free card, because the stop was illegal, so the search was illegal, so the coke is not admissible.

    Or if you find out I am not that one in 10 are you going to just tell me "get that sticker fixd" b/c you know I have a squeaky clean record and I have no contraband on me (Except in NJ where an UNLOADED gun in the trunk is contraband).
    Possible, depending on the infraction. Officers have SOME discretion, and each officer will use it in a different way. I personally made the decision before I exited the car... the subject's behavior had nothing to do with wether I gave them a ticket or not.

    What ever happened to the Terry Stop where you can search the passenger compartment in my immediate control (and me)*for your "safety", and keep me along the road as long as necessary until a dog comes to walk around my car sniff and pee on a tire? Seems to me if a gangster hoodlum refused a search you could use both of those on him.
    Again, I have to have a good reason in the first place to pull you over to even be able to do a Terry stop. And further, I need to have a reasonable suspicion that you have a weapon and might use it, in order to do a pat down.

    The "wait on the side of the road until K-9 is available" is an old trick, one I'm not particularly fond of, but I will admit to using in really blantant circumstances, like a film canister sitting in the ash tray. The K-9 alerting would provide probable cause to make an arrest and perform a search.

    Honestly, cops try to do the right thing as much as possible, because (at least where I used to work) judges would throw out evidence at the first hint it was tainted. We would take every precaution to make sure that what we got, we got right.

    If he had a felony and you found a gun... Right to the Federal Magistrate for his auomatic sentencing. Here's this same guy again.... Felon with a firearm.... http://alphecca.com/mt_alphecca_archives/002550.html
    Yes... felon with a firearm was one of my favorites. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Some prosecutors are territorial though, and don't want to pass a bad guy off to the federal courts system.

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    vermonter wrote:
    Except, it turned out, that something like 90% of these people weren't from the area and were actually drug runners heading down from the Canadian border to NYC and - like the drug runners coming north on I85 at the time - were easily profiled by their low rider cars and the fact they were traveling at 100 mph.
    I'm sensing a strong "us vs. them" mentality here, and I'm not really comfortable with it. As you pointed out yourself earlier, this is AMERICA. That murderer is not some foreign national, he is your neighbor. Unless I read the story wrong he MOVED to Vermont from Mass. So exactly how long does one need to live in their new address before they can claim to be "one of us?"

    Second, I find it confusing that you complain about drug runners coming down the interstate, but at the same time are angry at police officers who do traffic stops.

    And remember, profiling is illegal. Very illegal. And, according to my personal politics wrong anyway. So for those reasons I personally never felt the need to stack the odds in my favor by picking and choosing whom I would pull over. Commit a crime while I've got the time to spend 15 minutes on a traffic stop, and you'd get pulled over. Black, white, purple, lowrider, or jacked up pickup, I don't care.

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    I never mentioned race, people in the article did - but I didn't post there. You can profile stop someone of any race who is a gangster. LAPD does it ALL the time and they even have gang units who search people just b/c of the way they dress. The "them" refers to Hoodlums/Gangsters whatever of ANY race who come from cities with drug running problems. Hartford, CT. Springfield, MA Etc. Black, white, hispanic if you dress like a gang banger (pants hanging off the ass/Roca wear) you probably are one or want to be one. That "look" profiles you as being involved or glorifying drugs, violence and gangs. Funny all the people (black/white/green) arrested for dealing/robbery in Vermont and paraded on TV are dressed like gangsters. Coincidence? I don't think so! If you stop me you will see a guy who just stepped off the dairy farm with carhardts and dung on my workboots!

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    Wow vermonteryou have some issues with LEO that maybe you need to seek help with. I personally dont know what is going on withyour state, but if you dont like it.... then move. If those good ol boys cant play nice with others..... then im sorry. Here in Va we have our problems and our LEO do a pretty good job in fixing them, although when they screw up there is always the VCDL to remind them that there is a 2nd amendment.

    Did you come on here to start threads to bitch and moan about how bad VT has become due to the out of state population? Im sure no citizen or good ol VT boy has ever dealt drugs or committed a crime.

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    I don't have a problem with Vermont LEOS. What started this whole thing was my saying that I drove for a whole year with an expired inspection sticker and the local and state PD's (IN VT)attitude was "we have better things to do", and they do. Chase down hoodlums from Massachusetts bring drugs here and prostituting the local teen girls after hooking them on drugs. I have no beef with them. It was about the "write me a ticket for an inspection sticker" attitude of another cop from another state while drug runners zip by laughing on I-95.

    My state was a pristine farm state with 1-2 murders a year until THEY "gangsters" started comeing here to bebefit from an un-tapped market. this whole drug/gang situation is SO out of control in this country that ALL PD's need to use the traffic stop to ferret out the real hard core criminals, instead of writing someone for a bad inspection sticker or a small crack in the windshield.

    As for the Native Vermonters comitting crimes... Before this influx of bangers the one or two murders and other crimes were mostly domestic in nature and far between. Look at our stats. Most of the violent crimes and arrests are runners/bangers from NJ/MA/NY

    I am sorry if you guys disagree, but there is an epidemic of violent, drug related crime in this country. If I am so wrong why all the CCW laws, and why do you guys even OC? I don't OC, but I do CCW.


    One more thing in response to this post:

    You have no idea how many times I have heard people tell me that.Criminals are not running ramped where we can spend all day arresting them. You are suggesting I "profile" gang bangers and find "an excuse" to bust someone with a prior criminal history or may have a propensity to violence. I cannot begin to even tell you what is wrong with that!!! You want me to target someone who may actually be a law abiding citizen. The same citizenyou think I should leave alone.

    By having an expired Inspection sticker coupled with a clean record, I am a technically a violator and no longer a law abiding citizen in your book, therefore I deserve a ticket and possibly an impoundment. Lets say I'm driving through state XYZ and I have only $85 dollars. I get stopped and have to pay the fine on the spot , plus they impound my car b/c the windshield /door is unsafe. Now I am on the side of the road with no money. Then I get arrested for vagrancy. This may seem far fetched, but it has happened in several cases in Arkansas and Texas. One woman was arrested for not having a seatbelt. Now I sit in jail with drug dealers b/c I have no money to bail out. Do you honestly think that is fair AGAIN... while drug dealers zip by laughing? Being poor and not being able to afford a windshield is not a major crime in my book or that of a Vermont LEO.


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    vermonter wrote:
    I don't have a problem with Vermont LEOS. What started this whole thing was my saying that I drove for a whole year with an expired inspection sticker
    I learn a long time ago in the Marine Corps "if you can follow simple rules then you will never be able to follow the major ones when they are needed!
    and the local and state PD's (IN VT)attitude was "we have better things to do", and they do. Chase down hoodlums from Massachusetts bring drugs here and prostituting the local teen girls after hooking them on drugs. I have no beef with them. It was about the "write me a ticket for an inspection sticker" attitude of another cop from another state while drug runners zip by laughing on I-95.

    My state was a pristine farm state with 1-2 murders a year until THEY "gangsters" started comeing here to bebefit from an un-tapped market. this whole drug/gang situation is SO out of control in this country that ALL PD's need to use the traffic stop to ferret out the real hard core criminals, instead of writing someone for a bad inspection sticker or a small crack in the windshield.

    As for the Native Vermonters comitting crimes... Before this influx of bangers the one or two murders and other crimes were mostly domestic in nature and far between. Look at our stats. Most of the violent crimes and arrests are runners/bangers from NJ/MA/NY
    O whoo... did you take lessons from Bloomberg? Dont sit here and blame problems of your state on other states. We all have problems and bitch about them. With out someone offering solutions it will never be fixed. You can complain all you want but if you dont offer a way to fix it you will never find a means to an end!

    I am sorry if you guys disagree, but there is an epidemic of violent, drug related crime in this country. If I am so wrong why all the CCW laws, and why do you guys even OC? I don't OC, but I do CCW
    I open carry because i can! Not only is it a major deterrents, but the law in VA allows me too. Besides the tactical reasons and all it's more conformable

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    Well...I know this guy who has an 5/06 inspection sticker on his car and he doesn't get pulled over. He's black and wears "gangsta" style clothing. He also OCs ALL THE TIME. He doesn't get harassed by the LEOs. No one gives him any trouble. All of that doesn't really have a point. I'm typing cause I'm sleepy and I'm doing my laundry @ 3am.


    vermonter wrote:
    but there is an epidemic of violent, drug related crime in this country
    I'm sure it's not ALL that epidemic, however, everyone can blame someone else for that cause. There are many different ideas of WHY we have violent, drug relatedcrime. However, I feel that being armed will deter that type of behavior. Drugs and violence will ALWAYS be there. The way I see it, we "law-abiding" (EVERYONE has broken some type of law once or more times in their life, but following the generallaws of the land)citizens outnumber the bad guys in this country, with a lesser percentage of us being armed. With enough education to the "unarmed" masses, we COULD perhaps increase our numbers. Blah blah blah. We all hear the same problems and hear the same solutions.

    Only question is...what part of the equation are you on? Talking about the problems??? Or trying to work to fix the problems???

    Desertdocwrote:

    I open carry because i can! Not only is it a major deterrents, but the law in VA allows me too. Besides the tactical reasons and all it's more conformable
    What he said! Times 2!

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    danbus wrote:
    Well...I know this guy who has an 5/06 inspection sticker on his car and he doesn't get pulled over. He's black and wears "gangsta" style clothing. He also OCs ALL THE TIME. He doesn't get harassed by the LEOs. No one gives him any trouble. All of that doesn't really have a point. I'm typing cause I'm sleepy and I'm doing my laundry @ 3am.
    LMAO We missed U at dinner. Im going to bed myself

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    Asking how long one has to live in an area before they are "one of us" is silly. Obviously none of you live in SW Virginia. If you move here from outside, you are never "one of us." But again, I digress.....

    Why is it so important to argue over who has better LEOs? Over who is doing better at catching criminals? If we do away with vehicle inspections, then these become moot issues, yes? Just comply with the law and you don't get stopped. I know what it is to be poor, but vehicle inspection is the law. Let's examine LEO for a sec. LEO=Law Enforcement Officer. The key word is enforcement. He's doing his job. If some LEOs choose to be lax in some areas, then that is up to them.



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    Man, where is HankT when he is really needed.

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    Yes, that is the law. YOU ARE RIGHT!I live in a rural area and make very little and have to commute 40 Miles to work at the only job around. I cannot afford a car that is road worthy. A $500 car in VT usually has major issues. Since I cannot afford a car that passes inspection, you don't mind if I sit at home and collect welfare off your tax dollars since it is illegal to drive the only car I can afford in order to be able to work. On your other comment.... Someone from Massachusetts or New Jersey will NEVER become one of us (Vermonter)!

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    What I have learned is that crime is so bad in VT that the LEOS do not stop anyone for dead inspections. There do not have time to enforce the traffic code because they are too busy busing gang bangers and drug runners. But some that live there like that they can get away with petty traffic crimes due to bigger fish to fry.

    Now in Virginia.... we have things at a manageable level and have time to tostop people for dead inspections. We know that some people with dead inspections have bad brakes and this could cause a serious accident or a death to one or more people.

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    No I agree with that. I have new brakes and good tires. I just can't open my drivers door. Someone bashed me pushed the whole door in. I put a new door on, but it won't open b/c the rocker panel is crushed. I literally screwed the door on so it won't fall off in traffic. The only safety issue is if I were in an accident I would have to exit the passenger side. The problem is bad in Vermont, but the reason for the police being so busy with druggies is that we have the FEWEST police per 100,000 of any state. The city of BARRE is the most overrun. I feel the saddest for the cops in that town. They are REALLY old. Many are around 55-60 and still carry revolvers with cartridge loops. It's just old time Vermont cops who used to rattle doors downtown. They are no match for these bangers. They had to shoot a guy they arrested last year b/c they didn't search him and he brought a knife into the police station and tried to stab the officers. They have been through 3 police chiefs in a year!



    LEO You have GOT to read this article to believe it!:

    http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07.n243.a05.html

    Or here:

    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/...y_drug_dealers


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    vermonter wrote:
    A $500 car in VT usually has major issues. Since I cannot afford a car that passes inspection, you don't mind if I sit at home and collect welfare off your tax dollars since it is illegal to drive the only car I can afford in order to be able to work.
    I do feel for your situation.... You do not get paid much and the best vehicle you can afford cannot pass inspection. You live in an area where crime is all around you now destroying the way of life you once enjoyed.

    I have stopped people drivingjunk cars that needed to be fixed big time. The vehicles could notpass inspection but they ran well and were actually safe to operate. I have been known to give them a warning ticket and tell them to work on the repairs after hearing about their financial situation.

    And someone mentioned that some LEOs are lax in certain areas. Some love traffic stops and some hate them. Some love serving warrants and some hate it. To be a well rounded and seasoned officer you need to do a little of everything.

    In my opinion... If the VT LEOs choose to not stop people for traffic violations... that is their choice.They are letting criminals goand when they observe traffic violations are not being enforced, they may escalate to break more traffic laws .


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    Putting asside the vehicle problem you have to agree things are out of hand up here. And yet the people I mentioned from NJ and MA are calling for sweeping gun control to disarm the citizens! What do you think about the BARRE Mayors statement!

    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/...y_drug_dealers

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    vermonter wrote:
    No I agree with that. I have new brakes and good tires. I just can't open my drivers door. Someone bashed me pushed the whole door in. I put a new door on, but it won't open b/c the rocker panel is crushed. I literally screwed the door on so it won't fall off in traffic. The only safety issue is if I were in an accident I would have to exit the passenger side. The problem is bad in Vermont, but the reason for the police being so busy with druggies is that we have the FEWEST police per 100,000 of any state. The city of BARRE is the most overrun. I feel the saddest for the cops in that town. They are REALLY old. Many are around 55-60 and still carry revolvers with cartridge loops. It's just old time Vermont cops who used to rattle doors downtown. They are no match for these bangers. They had to shoot a guy they arrested last year b/c they didn't search him and he brought a knife into the police station and tried to stab the officers. They have been through 3 police chiefs in a year!
    Every county, city, or town has their own things that are problematic thateveryone knows about. In NOVA... we have illegal immigration. You have drugs from the border. DC has a murder every day.

    It sounds like your police force is old and understaffed. You need some new blood in there to get those traffic stops going... Maybe then you will get pulled over for your inspection... Just kidding!!



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    vermonter wrote:
    Putting asside the vehicle problem you have to agree things are out of hand up here. And yet the people I mentioned from NJ and MA are calling for sweeping gun control to disarm the citizens! What do you think about the BARRE Mayors statement!

    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/...y_drug_dealers
    I like the death penalty for big time dealers. But that will never happen.

    Taking away the guns is not the answer either. Look at DC.. In 1976 they did it and today they have guns and murders by guns there all the time. That law really worked well, huh??!! The only people with guns in DC now are the criminals... and the citizens are defenseless.

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    I appreciate your "hearing me out". There is a lot of frustration up here. You ever see "Bedford Falls" in the Movie "It's a wonderful life"? that was Vermont until a few years ago. Now people are shooting citizens down in the street over drugs. There is a big "Us VS Them" movement that one could only understand if you were raised in the most rural state in America that became a ghetto overnight. I don't expect anyone to sympathize with us b/c itis all over, but Vermont was the last "Apple Pie" state. There is nowhere safe to go anymore except out in the deep woods and that is no answer. We appreciate the police, but the people are so afraid. Thats why the big CCW push, and why we have more people in prison that any other country. We are not winning - we are LOSING the battle! I could care less about two guys fighting in the street over some petty crap, inspection stickers, or going 10 miles over the speed limit. From my perspective in my rural corner of the world the hoodlums and drug dealers are taking over. The Barre Mayor may seem like a loon, but he is right. It's way our of control.

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