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I can see why VA "Assclowns" are so active with OC

LEO 229

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vermonter wrote:
No I agree with that. I have new brakes and good tires. I just can't open my drivers door. Someone bashed me pushed the whole door in. I put a new door on, but it won't open b/c the rocker panel is crushed. I literally screwed the door on so it won't fall off in traffic. The only safety issue is if I were in an accident I would have to exit the passenger side. The problem is bad in Vermont, but the reason for the police being so busy with druggies is that we have the FEWEST police per 100,000 of any state. The city of BARRE is the most overrun. I feel the saddest for the cops in that town. They are REALLY old. Many are around 55-60 and still carry revolvers with cartridge loops. It's just old time Vermont cops who used to rattle doors downtown. They are no match for these bangers. They had to shoot a guy they arrested last year b/c they didn't search him and he brought a knife into the police station and tried to stab the officers. They have been through 3 police chiefs in a year!

Every county, city, or town has their own things that are problematic thateveryone knows about. In NOVA... we have illegal immigration. You have drugs from the border. DC has a murder every day.

It sounds like your police force is old and understaffed. You need some new blood in there to get those traffic stops going... Maybe then you will get pulled over for your inspection... Just kidding!!
 

LEO 229

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vermonter wrote:
Putting asside the vehicle problem you have to agree things are out of hand up here. And yet the people I mentioned from NJ and MA are calling for sweeping gun control to disarm the citizens! What do you think about the BARRE Mayors statement!

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/475/barre_vermont_mayor_lauzon_legalize_marijuana_death_penalty_drug_dealers

I like the death penalty for big time dealers. But that will never happen.

Taking away the guns is not the answer either. Look at DC.. In 1976 they did it and today they have guns and murders by guns there all the time. That law really worked well, huh??!! The only people with guns in DC now are the criminals... and the citizens are defenseless.
 

vermonter

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I appreciate your "hearing me out". There is a lot of frustration up here. You ever see "Bedford Falls" in the Movie "It's a wonderful life"? that was Vermont until a few years ago. Now people are shooting citizens down in the street over drugs. There is a big "Us VS Them" movement that one could only understand if you were raised in the most rural state in America that became a ghetto overnight. I don't expect anyone to sympathize with us b/c itis all over, but Vermont was the last "Apple Pie" state. There is nowhere safe to go anymore except out in the deep woods and that is no answer. We appreciate the police, but the people are so afraid. Thats why the big CCW push, and why we have more people in prison that any other country. We are not winning - we are LOSING the battle! I could care less about two guys fighting in the street over some petty crap, inspection stickers, or going 10 miles over the speed limit. From my perspective in my rural corner of the world the hoodlums and drug dealers are taking over. The Barre Mayor may seem like a loon, but he is right. It's way our of control.
 

vermonter

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I suggested to my state rep if you are caught DEALING in VT you gat an automatic life sentence (the liberals would never go for this), but the sentence would be suspended if the convict leaves Vermont forever. If he ever returns the sentence would be imposed. I know that is "passing the buck" but we didn't grow them here! Let the go back to Springfield Mass where they belong. People think Vermonters have extrme ideas like the Bare Mayor. We just want our simple rural farm life back where we look forward to hunting season, keep our doors unlocked, and go to town meeting to discuss Homers horses getting loose again... Not who got killed in a shoot out last week while the poor old town constable wrings his hands
 

LEO 229

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It took a while but you have finally enlightened us why you were so upset over inspection tickets. :D

Believe me... We feel for you!! Drugs and gangs are popping up all over. They will stay where they are permitted to grow and operate successfully. If your state does not create effective laws to crush them and the police are not capable to go after them.... they will thrive and multiply.

All you can do is to arm yourself and be aware of what is going on around you.
 

longwatch

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LEO 229 wrote:
vermonter wrote:
Putting asside the vehicle problem you have to agree things are out of hand up here. And yet the people I mentioned from NJ and MA are calling for sweeping gun control to disarm the citizens! What do you think about the BARRE Mayors statement!

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/475/barre_vermont_mayor_lauzon_legalize_marijuana_death_penalty_drug_dealers

I like the death penalty for big time dealers. But that will never happen.

Taking away the guns is not the answer either. Look at DC.. In 1976 they did it and today they have guns and murders by guns there all the time. That law really worked well, huh??!! The only people with guns in DC now are the criminals... and the citizens are defenseless.
So are you for the death penalty for cigarrette and alcohol manufacturers? They kill a lot more than illegal drugs do, together 500,000 compared to about 20,000 for illegal drugs.

http://www.come-over.to/FAS/alcdeath.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/cig_smoking_mort.htm
http://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/publications/policy/ndcs00/chap2_10.html
 

VAopencarry

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Cigarettes and alcohol is legal commerce. Also, with exceptions, people are not robbing and murdering people for a pack of smokes.
 

vermonter

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No, I'm not for the "death penalty" for drug dealers. Child molesters and murders... Thats different. Like I said, here in Vermont I am for an automatic life sentence ...suspended if the perp leaves Vermont and NEVER returns. If you were a convicted drug dealer would you come back knowing if you got caught you would go to jail 4 life? Why should hard working Vermonters pay for Massachusetts drug dealers to sit in "country club" prison for 20 years. Send em back to Mass were thy like that behavior!
 

longwatch

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VAopencarry wrote:
Cigarettes and alcohol is legal commerce. Also, with exceptions, people are not robbing and murdering people for a pack of smokes.
Alcohol was illegal once, and people killed over it plenty, they don't now though. Why is that? Government fiat is the only difference between legal and illegal drugs, morally they are equivalent to me.

Anyhow long ago people view alcohol the same way many view drugs today.


http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/tn/blount/newspapers/miscnews.txt

Code:
Another case of shooting occurred some 3 miles from Maryville last Friday,
about dark. As usual, whisky was at the bottom of this unfortunate affair, and
another crime is laid at the doors of our saloon keepers. Two friends, Jim
Headrick and Jeff Dunlap, were drinking and carousing together in town, and
were on their way home, when the liquor began to do its work, a quarrel
ensued, and Jim Headrick shot Jeff Dunlap in the face just below the eye, but
being a small weapon the wound has not proved very serious. How long shall
these whisky hells be allowed?
Code:
Wednesday, August 7, 1878

Anderson, the liquor seller, has removed his kennel to a back building owned
by L.L. Ferrary. Of course an employment that loves darkness rather than
light, practicing its deeds behind interposed screens and closed doors, will
find this situation more consonant with its own gloominess. As to Ferrary, who
for “twenty pieces of silver” thus devotes his property to the service of the
prince of darkness, we had hoped better things of him. His recent
incarceration ought to have taught him that the way of the transgressor is
hard--that sin is certain to find men out sooner or later. This looks like a
very serious step backward for him--the beginning of a return to paths that
lead down to ruin. It is to be said of him, as it is written: “The dog is
turned to his vomit, and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the
mire?” Don’t trifle with conscience, and known duty, friend.

Wednesday, August 14, 1878

The murder of the Revenue Officer, Mr. John Cooper, by Hut Amerine and his
crew adds another to the crimes instigated by the liquor business of this
county. Only evil, and that continually can, result from this cursed traffic.
It is remarkable, too, that the men who speak lightly of this foul murder, or
in any way extenuate it, are men who love liquor. Liquor drinking deadens the
conscience and makes men insensible to the obligations of good citizens and to
the true nature of crime. Mr. Cooper was engaged in the performance of his
official duties, as his father’s deputy. The murderers are outlaws, and as
such are enemies to the good order and peace of society. They have inflicted a
life-long sorrow upon the wife and children, the father and brothers of the
murdered man. Can any good citizen fail to execrate the crime or fail to co-
operate in bringing the murderers to speedy punishment?
Code:
The Revenue Raids---A posse of four Revenue officials left Knoxville Tuesday
night of last week and were joined by Deputy Marshall Pate of Maryville and
one other to make a raid upon the distillery of Hut Amerine, of this county.
They reached his premises about daybreak Thursday morning. The distillery,
however, was strongly guarded, and a fight ensued. J.B. Snyder, one of the
revenue men, received a shot, the ball taking effect in his left hand and
coming out near the elbow. The revenue squad seeing that the chances were
against them, retired, and Snyder went home on the Maryville train. Another
and stronger posse was sent after the moonshiners, under William and John
Cooper. The result we clip from the Chronicle. “On arriving in the vicinity of
Amerine’s distillery about daybreak Friday morning, the posse of officials
under the command of Deputy Collector W.R. Cooper divided into four squads,
and were sent around to four points commanding a view of the still house,
which was situated down in Miller’s Cove. They soon discovered that the
distillery was deserted and the still hid away, and stationed themselves
around in a reconnoitering attitude for the purpose of capturing the
violators, if possible. Deputy John Cooper, with Lea Lewis and Frank DeArmond,
had gained entrance to the yard of the distillery, while the others were at
their different stations. It was now after sunrise, about 6 o’clock, perhaps,
when from a point on the side of the hill near by John Cooper and his squad
heard three parties calling for them to throw up their hand and surrender.
They at first thought it was some of their own men, but almost immediately the
violators, who were discovered to be Hut Amerine, Ad Wilson and Fletch Emmett,
opened fire. The entire volley was evidently aimed at John Cooper, and there
are different theories advanced to explain that. Some think that Amerine and
his men thought he was a man named Davis, who resembled him somewhat, and had
been blowing on them. Another theory is that they had ascertained that he was
a Cooper, although John had never been in that locality before, and it is
known that those fellows have sworn vengeance on all the Coopers. It seems
that three shots struck John, or at least the first went through his hat. The
next struck his left arm near the wrist and ranging upwards shattered the arm
in a frightful manner. At this time he had moved from his first position and
was rather squatted behind a sapling, trying to get a bead on the fellows with
his gun. The same shot which struck his arm, he being in a reclining position,
scapped out a small gash in his left thigh. The next shot did the work,
however. That took effect in the soft part of his abdomen, just below the
ribs, and ranging down, coming out near the spinal column, almost severing it.
This was a very large sized rifle ball, and from the best information that
could be obtained, this came from Wilson’s gun. The other ball was a smaller
one, and it is supposed was fired by Amerine himself. John was heard to
exclaim “I’m shot!” and dropping his gun started to run up the hollow, but
fell exhausted after going 40 or 50 yards. His brother Will, who was only
fifteen steps off at the time discovered his situation and came to John,
giving him some water from the branch at his request. The bushwhackers after
firing took to the bushes at once, and were followed some distance by part of
the force, but their whereabouts could not be discovered. John was then cared
for and taken to the house of Mr. Webb, who is the nearest neighbor, and in a
very short distance of Amerine’s dwelling house. John told his brother that he
was shot fatally, but he was prepared, and had no fears of death.” Dr.
Blankenship, of Maryville, went over to attend to the wounded man, and arrived
at about 12 o’clock Friday. But the wound was such that the patient could not
recover, and, as the Dr. tells us, reaction did not set in. Dr. Boynton, of
Knoxville, was also summoned to his relief, but everything had been done that
could aid the wounded man, and he could do nothing further to prevent the
approach of death, which came at 11 o’clock Friday night. Another strong posse
was sent after Amerine and his followers, but we believe all have returned to
Knoxville, having despaired of finding the villains. A reward of $300 is
offered for the arrest and delivery of Hutsell Amerine, Adam Wilson and
Fletcher Emmett, the murderers of John Cooper, or $100 for either of them. The
reward is offered by Joseph A. Cooper and his two sons. We understand that an
additional reward will be offered by the Government, and probably by Gov.
Porter also. It is hoped that these rewards will have the desired effect, and
that the notorious Hut and his associates will be brought to justice. We are
sorry that some of our whisky men sympathize with the murderers, but all good
citizens of Blount unite in condemning the foul deed. The revenue law is a
law, and should be enforced, and John Cooper was engaged in a noble work in
trying to arrest the illicit distillers. But how much better it would be if
this would be succeeded by entire prohibition of the accursed stuff. Since
writing the above we learn that Gov. Porter has offered a reward of $200 for
each of the three murderers.
 

longwatch

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vermonter wrote:
No, I'm not for the "death penalty" for drug dealers. Child molesters and murders... Thats different. Like I said, here in Vermont I am for an automatic life sentence ...suspended if the perp leaves Vermont and NEVER returns. If you were a convicted drug dealer would you come back knowing if you got caught you would go to jail 4 life? Why should hard working Vermonters pay for Massachusetts drug dealers to sit in "country club" prison for 20 years. Send em back to Mass were thy like that behavior!
I was aiming more at LEO229, but I have to ask why does one group of dealers arouse so much ire and a second group in essentially the same business (addictive chemicals) and whose products are involved in 25 times more deaths get no response?
 

VAopencarry

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I don't care if there is or is not a death penalty for drug dealers. If alcohol was illegal then they should get the same punishment as 'drug' dealers. Morally v. legally are 2 different things. I am not talking about morals or ethics. Alcohol and tobacco are legal products, their 'dealer' should not be held to someone else's moral standards. By that arguement, gun dealers are resposible for handgun violence.:p
 

Hawkflyer

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VAopencarry wrote:
Cigarettes and alcohol is legal commerce.  Also, with exceptions, people are not robbing and murdering people for a pack of smokes.

To quote Mr. Nunzuci from the movie "Independence day", "That is not entirely accurate".

Vermont is a border state with Canada. There is a HUGE illegal traffic in both cigarets and liquor all along the eastern half of the Canada/US border. This is an organized crime problem and there are actually a lot of violent crimes involved in that illegal trade. This is driven largely by the differences in prices caused by taxation.

But that is not the real issue here.

VERMONTER-

The united States is a nation of laws. In a free society based on laws, it is the responsibility of every citizen to obey the laws, large and small. If you disagree with a law or how it is enforced there are ways to change it. That is the way the system works. If people are allowed to simply pick and choose the laws they will obey, or LEOs are allowed to pick and choose the laws they will enforce, then you do not have a free society of laws you have a corrupt anarchy.

The inspection program on cars and trucks is a form of taxation, driven by a public safety concern. It has a social purpose. Some of the money raised is used for buying more law enforcement, road improvements or whatever.

What I see as the common thread here is a person trying to make a living at the lower end of the economic scale of the area where he is living. That social condition is likely to place that person in less that desirable areas of the community for living and working. Moreover, when passing through areas that are not economically depressed, he is likely to stand out and get noticed by LEOs, who might notice inspection stickers and screwed on smashed doors. While this is tragic, there are a lot of people in that same situation.

But here is the short of it. If you break the law you have to realize that you might get caught at some point. That is the risk YOU assume. Your economic situation does not give you a "Pass" on living within the law, because giving Passes is not allowed under the equal protection clause of our constitution. All of the laws apply to ALL of the people EQUALLY. Just because you don't get caught does NOT mean that the police are looking the other way intentionally. They will enforce ALL the laws as time and opportunity permits. To say they are not doing this implies that in your state the enforcement system is corrupt, and is out of control. It is more likely that they are overwhelmed, and need more money to do the job. Money that you and others are denying them by not paying the taxes you owe.

While your situation is tragic and I think one and all on this forum honestly feel for your situation, it is no excuse for a failure to assume the responsibilities you must assume through your own actions. Your truck is obviously a tool of your trade. If this was 1890 it would be a horse and you would have to feed, water and care for it every day. Fi it had a broken leg it would be unserviceable and you would HAVE to get a new one that worked.

Get a sledge hammer bang the rocker panel until the door fits, and get your truck inspected. FIX YOUR TOOLS AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Your problems are not being caused by other people, they are of your own making.

Regards
 

shdwrdr

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vermonter wrote:
I suggested to my state rep if you are caught DEALING in VT you gat an automatic life sentence (the liberals would never go for this), but the sentence would be suspended if the convict leaves Vermont forever. If he ever returns the sentence would be imposed. I know that is "passing the buck" but we didn't grow them here! Let the go back to Springfield Mass where they belong. People think Vermonters have extrme ideas like the Bare Mayor. We just want our simple rural farm life back where we look forward to hunting season, keep our doors unlocked, and go to town meeting to discuss Homers horses getting loose again... Not who got killed in a shoot out last week while the poor old town constable wrings his hands
New flash, those days are gone forever. Mayberry doesn't exist anymore. As America's population grows, we need places to live, and there is only so much land left in the East. that means the rural state are going to lose their small town, rural farm life. Maybe not overnight, but it will happen. That includes all you small towners in VA too. Get used to the population growth, unless we institute a forced migration West.
 

livitup

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Culpeper, Virginia, USA
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Hawkflyer wrote:
While your situation is tragic and I think one and all on this forum honestly feel for your situation, it is no excuse for a failure to assume the responsibilities you must assume through your own actions. Your truck is obviously a tool of your trade. If this was 1890 it would be a horse and you would have to feed, water and care for it every day. Fi it had a broken leg it would be unserviceable and you would HAVE to get a new one that worked.

Get a sledge hammer bang the rocker panel until the door fits, and get your truck inspected. FIX YOUR TOOLS AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Your problems are not being caused by other people, they are of your own making.

Regards

+3525235234523423 e23

This is basically what I tried to say (with far less elloquence) a couple days ago.
 

LEO 229

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longwatch wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
vermonter wrote:
Putting asside the vehicle problem you have to agree things are out of hand up here. And yet the people I mentioned from NJ and MA are calling for sweeping gun control to disarm the citizens! What do you think about the BARRE Mayors statement!

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/475/barre_vermont_mayor_lauzon_legalize_marijuana_death_penalty_drug_dealers

I like the death penalty for big time dealers. But that will never happen.

Taking away the guns is not the answer either. Look at DC.. In 1976 they did it and today they have guns and murders by guns there all the time. That law really worked well, huh??!! The only people with guns in DC now are the criminals... and the citizens are defenseless.
So are you for the death penalty for cigarrette and alcohol manufacturers? They kill a lot more than illegal drugs do, together 500,000 compared to about 20,000 for illegal drugs.

http://www.come-over.to/FAS/alcdeath.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/cig_smoking_mort.htm
http://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/publications/policy/ndcs00/chap2_10.html


Booze.. No. Cigarettes.. Hell yes! I hate smelling the smoke from other people and seeing cigarette butts littering the highway.
 
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