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Thread: No OC at the Henrico County "Public Safety Building"

  1. #1
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    It's time to Open Carry at the Henrico Public Safety building..

    I was speaking with a detective by phone and arranging to meet at the public safety building, and was advised not to "conceal carry" or otherwise bring any firearms into the building for the "officers safety"

    Upon calling back to speak with a supervisor, I stated that I felt I had the legal right to carry open or concealed as a law abiding citizen and had no intention of NOT CC'ing unless expressly probhibited by law.

    His challenge was: "Since you know the law so well, cite the code of Virginia that allows you to carry in a police station" -- My reply was, the law tells me what I CAN'T DO BY DEFAULT.. (rule #1 -- never get into an "on the stop duel" reciting code, they have more practice)

    The guy backed down after I reminded him the proposed legislation(although I could not quote it, he acknowledged) to ALLOW counties to probhibit this had FAILED this year.



  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity did the police mention no weapons on their own?
    Sounds like it and to me thats just as bad as an unauthorized 'no guns' sign.


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    longwatch wrote:
    Out of curiosity did the police mention no weapons on their own?
    Sounds like it and to me thats just as bad as an unauthorized 'no guns' sign.
    The gun issue came out of a comment that I had a Henrico issued concealed weapons permit(which was relevant to the conversation), which they followed up with don't bring your firearms for the officers safety...

    It was one of those "WTF" moments and I realized a reasonable discussion was off the table.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    OK still why does the officer think police safety trumps your safety?


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    This makes me furious. Anyone not otherwise prohibited can openly carry a firearm at any police station anywhere in the state of Virginia, anytime they want and for any reason,and that is that.

    Why not simply show up openly carrying anyway? Smile, be polite, get right down to whatever business you are there for, and ignore the firearm. See what happens - ultimately, no matter what, you can't and won't be charged with anything related to your lawful open carry.

    Psmartin: Please provide the officers name and the name of the supervisor you spoke with.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    "Since you know the law so well, cite the code of Virginia that allows you to carry in a police station"
    My responce to him: If you know the law so well, cite the code which bars citizen carry in a police station. I hate it when police think they can feed people ******** because we don't know the law. He obviously knew better and while not technically lying to you, he implied he knew of a violation he would charge you with.

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    Remember, this is Henrico, where if you are open carrying, you will be stopped and questioned. This was quoted by HPD, somewhere I read about 6 - 8 months ago, onhere.

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    Umm... that was said to me. That was resolved in my favor, and the behavior of the officer who initially stopped me was found by his internal affairs department to be "inappropriate" and his "behavior (was) not up to the standards of the division". Col. Stanley was actually great throughout the experience, and worked very reasonably with Philip Van Cleave. He asked that next time there is an issue, please call him first and give him a chance to resolve it. I still think I was right to go through internal affairs and get a favorable response from them in writing (they also noted that disciplinary action against the officer would be handled "administratively").

    Perhaps Philip or someone should call Col. Stanley. If psmartin will give us the name of the officer involved, I'd be glad to call him myself. The key is to be polite, reasonable, and firm. I suppose anyone (including the police) can ask you to do anything. The test will be showing up at the PD openly carrying and see what happens from there.

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    Thanks for the sanity check.

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    oops... replied to wrong topic, sorry :?!

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    SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
    The test will be showing up at the PD openly carrying and see what happens from there.
    What are the potential outcomes of doing this? I don't mean in the ultimate legal sense. The law is quite clear. It is legal to OC in the police station. But what is the range of responses that onemight reasonably be expected togenerate? One response, of course, would be no notice or acknowledgment of the OCing at all. Zero problems. Inaword, perfect.

    Another potentialresponse would be an officer questioning the OCer, possibly demanding/asking for ID or other papers. Possibly annoying, but probably not too problematic.

    Are there any other potential outcomes? What ifa Rickey Clodfelter-like officer is on the scene? Or more than one?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
    The test will be showing up at the PD openly carrying and see what happens from there.
    What are the potential outcomes of doing this? I don't mean in the ultimate legal sense. The law is quite clear. It is legal to OC in the police station. But what is the range of responses that onemight reasonably be expected togenerate? One response, of course, would be no notice or acknowledgment of the OCing at all. Zero problems. Inaword, perfect.

    Another potentialresponse would be an officer questioning the OCer, possibly demanding/asking for ID or other papers. Possibly annoying, but probably not too problematic.

    Are there any other potential outcomes? What ifa Rickey Clodfelter-like officer is on the scene? Or more than one?
    If we have a repeat of Manassas by any LEOs I expect a Manassas like response from gunowners.

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    It never ceases to amaze me the bubble that some cops live in. The "I'm a cop so I must be special" mentality.

    I have also met a few Marines with the same mentality. I had a few gun arguments with one Marine who thought that the military should have guns but the public should not. He basically took the point of view that the government is all-knowing and all-powerful. The funny thing is that he was against the war! So his basic argument was that the government should have the monopoly on force, even though he believed that they frenquently misused that force!

    Some people just need to pull their heads out of the sand.

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    TEX1N wrote:
    It never ceases to amaze me the bubble that some cops live in. The "I'm a cop so I must be special" mentality.

    I have also met a few Marines with the same mentality. I had a few gun arguments with one Marine who thought that the military should have guns but the public should not. He basically took the point of view that the government is all-knowing and all-powerful. The funny thing is that he was against the war! So his basic argument was that the government should have the monopoly on force, even though he believed that they frenquently misused that force!

    Some people just need to pull their heads out of the sand.
    I've never heard an "ass" referred to as sand before.....

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    BobCav wrote:
    I've never heard an "ass" referred to as sand before.....
    cat litter?
    ---

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    I love it when people seem to think that laws tell you what you can do...where does it say in the laws that you're ALLOWED to NOT rob a convenience store? The constitution was written to keep the government in check, yet for some reason people get this idea that if it doesn't mention it in the law you can't do it. Last time i checked it doesn't say anything about it's legal to BREATHE!!!

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    Additionally, and this is a big question - What gives police the right to carry anywhere and everywhere? Most police departments only require you to have a GED and a clean record, they send them to a police academy and hey all of a sudden they're above the average citizen. I'm a licensed pilot, i've been through multiple background checks, mostly for gun purchases and my employment in the aviation industry, i've been around guns for most of my life, yet they have some sort of higher power. Is it just me or is this an idea that probably wasn't planned when this nation was founded?

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    savery wrote:
    Additionally, and this is a big question - What gives police the right to carry anywhere and everywhere? Is it just me or is this an idea that probably wasn't planned when this nation was founded?
    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KKK MA$$

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    Ya know, that's the nice thing about this country! If you feel the officers safety would be enhanced by you leaving your weapon in the car, you're free to do it. As for this moron, I think I'll keep mine with me.

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    Wooley wrote:
    I would guess that the average CWP holder is very informed and well trained, and most OCers would be as well, but there is always that one moron out there and someone has to plan for him.
    There has to be at least one LEO somewhere that's a moron, right?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    I think the problem is this, rules are set to keep the average in check and the average person is a moron. I would guess that the average CWP holder is very informed and well trained, and most OCers would be as well, but there is always that one moron out there and someone has to plan for him.
    Its the Leroy Jenkins Effect. The best laid plans can be destroyed by guys like him, so you have to plan for guys like him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbpJ9H9ADoE&NR


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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I would disagree that most CHP holder's are very informed and well trained or OC'ers or law enforcement.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I second that, there are a lot of CHP holder who don't know that CC is illegal in restaurants that serve alcohol.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Don't worry even I forget that most permit holders or carriers aren't like the people in VCDL or this forum. Most probably don't carry all the time nor are they activist minded like us. Not that we are better than anyone else but we here are a kind of elite among gun owners in that we exercise our rights more fully than most.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    NRA KKK MA$$
    What?

    Are you a member of the NRA and the KKK?



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