longwatch
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Chief Skinner has concluded his investigation into the Tony's incident and it is hard from the conclusions he reached to believe he is talking about the same incident as the one I experienced. His official report will soon be posted but it contains many inconsistancies.
Here are a few but certainly not all.
-Primarily in the enticement for us to conceal our handguns in violation of the law Skinner acts as if we are fabricating that detail claiming no evidence of it occuring.
-That we had refused a request to leave the restaurant. Officer Hittle suggested that we leave when we were done with our meals and we were a few minutes from doing so but were kicked out before we could leave on our own accord.
-That there was no loud or inappropriate behavior on the part of the MCPD officers. Their refusal to see our letter was not only unprofessional it was menacingly hostile.
-The claim that the supervisor identified herself to members of our group is false. To this day we are not certain which of the MCPD officers she was.
There will be further details about Chief Skinner's report forthcoming.
http://tinyurl.com/yocgmp
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner: Police not excessive
[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]By ELISA A. GLUSHEFSKI
[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]eglushefski@manassasjm.com
[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Friday, March 23, 2007[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]
The response of seven Manassas police officers to a call of seven armed men inside Tony's New York Pizza in mid-January was not excessive, according to the city's chief of police.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Chief John J. Skinner presented the findings and his response to two formal complaints filed against the department to the Manassas City Council following a public facilities meeting Wednesday night. He also apologized for internal messages and e-mails in which several of the officers refer to the men as "ass clowns" and " 'tards."[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner said there was no other evidence of police misconduct.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]"As chief I feel I owe an apology … for the improper, profane and unprofessional language that was disrespectful at the very least," Skinner said at the meeting.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Although members of the council were largely satisfied with the findings and the action that would be taken, council member Andrew Harrover said his greatest concern was the possible damage the e-mails could have on public trust.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]"If citizens feel that the police department has no respect for them, then we have a much larger problem," he said.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner said he plans to address the problem by retraining officers of the city's electronic communications policy, enhancing the departments random auditing of electronic messaging and disciplining the officers who wrote the messages and e-mails.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]The incident that sparked the investigation happened on the evening of Jan. 13, when seven men walked into Tony's New York Pizza on Mathis Avenue with their guns holstered at their side and ordered food.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]An unnamed man at the restaurant, who had approached the men about their guns earlier, called 911 and reported that the men's guns were making him uncomfortable.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Within minutes of each other, seven police officers responded and, according to Skinner, handled the situation appropriately.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]But Russ Troxel and Mark Anderson, two of the men who were openly carrying holstered guns that night, filed separate complaints in February and after receiving Skinner's letter say they stand by their accusations of several forms of police misconduct, including the officers persuading the owner of Tony's to kick them out.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Troxel, who was the first to file a complaint, called Skinner's report a whitewash, saying that it showed "internal inconsistencies" and did not address his complaint of the first officer asking the men to conceal their weapons.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]State law requires weapons be carried in the open in places that serve alcohol. While carrying a concealed weapon requires a court-issued permit, no permit is required to carry a gun in the open.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]While Skinner said the officer was confused about Virginia's open carry laws, he added that he did not ask the men to conceal their weapons but that he suggested they put their guns in the car. Skinner also said the confusion could have led to the officer becoming frustrated.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Anderson said some of the findings, particularly the issues of a failure to supervise, were troubling.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]"I'm a little taken aback by that," Anderson said in a telephone interview Thursday afternoon. "I stood 20 feet back from these officers when [one] said 'we don't need to see your damn letters, don't come over here and fight us on this' while the other one just stood there mute. That seems to me like a lack of control."[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Anderson said he was outside of the restaurant trying to discuss Second Amendment law with one of the officers when he was cursed at, adding that the supervisor was within earshot and did not intervene.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner's findings show that the officers declined to accept literature from the group and are not obligated to do so.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]He added in a telephone interview Wednesday that the department's investigation was "thorough, competent and fair" and that he stands behind the findings.[/font][/font]
Chief Skinner has concluded his investigation into the Tony's incident and it is hard from the conclusions he reached to believe he is talking about the same incident as the one I experienced. His official report will soon be posted but it contains many inconsistancies.
Here are a few but certainly not all.
-Primarily in the enticement for us to conceal our handguns in violation of the law Skinner acts as if we are fabricating that detail claiming no evidence of it occuring.
-That we had refused a request to leave the restaurant. Officer Hittle suggested that we leave when we were done with our meals and we were a few minutes from doing so but were kicked out before we could leave on our own accord.
-That there was no loud or inappropriate behavior on the part of the MCPD officers. Their refusal to see our letter was not only unprofessional it was menacingly hostile.
-The claim that the supervisor identified herself to members of our group is false. To this day we are not certain which of the MCPD officers she was.
There will be further details about Chief Skinner's report forthcoming.
http://tinyurl.com/yocgmp
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner: Police not excessive
[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]By ELISA A. GLUSHEFSKI
[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]eglushefski@manassasjm.com
[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Friday, March 23, 2007[/font][/font][font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]
The response of seven Manassas police officers to a call of seven armed men inside Tony's New York Pizza in mid-January was not excessive, according to the city's chief of police.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Chief John J. Skinner presented the findings and his response to two formal complaints filed against the department to the Manassas City Council following a public facilities meeting Wednesday night. He also apologized for internal messages and e-mails in which several of the officers refer to the men as "ass clowns" and " 'tards."[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner said there was no other evidence of police misconduct.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]"As chief I feel I owe an apology … for the improper, profane and unprofessional language that was disrespectful at the very least," Skinner said at the meeting.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Although members of the council were largely satisfied with the findings and the action that would be taken, council member Andrew Harrover said his greatest concern was the possible damage the e-mails could have on public trust.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]"If citizens feel that the police department has no respect for them, then we have a much larger problem," he said.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner said he plans to address the problem by retraining officers of the city's electronic communications policy, enhancing the departments random auditing of electronic messaging and disciplining the officers who wrote the messages and e-mails.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]The incident that sparked the investigation happened on the evening of Jan. 13, when seven men walked into Tony's New York Pizza on Mathis Avenue with their guns holstered at their side and ordered food.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]An unnamed man at the restaurant, who had approached the men about their guns earlier, called 911 and reported that the men's guns were making him uncomfortable.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Within minutes of each other, seven police officers responded and, according to Skinner, handled the situation appropriately.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]But Russ Troxel and Mark Anderson, two of the men who were openly carrying holstered guns that night, filed separate complaints in February and after receiving Skinner's letter say they stand by their accusations of several forms of police misconduct, including the officers persuading the owner of Tony's to kick them out.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Troxel, who was the first to file a complaint, called Skinner's report a whitewash, saying that it showed "internal inconsistencies" and did not address his complaint of the first officer asking the men to conceal their weapons.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]State law requires weapons be carried in the open in places that serve alcohol. While carrying a concealed weapon requires a court-issued permit, no permit is required to carry a gun in the open.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]While Skinner said the officer was confused about Virginia's open carry laws, he added that he did not ask the men to conceal their weapons but that he suggested they put their guns in the car. Skinner also said the confusion could have led to the officer becoming frustrated.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Anderson said some of the findings, particularly the issues of a failure to supervise, were troubling.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]"I'm a little taken aback by that," Anderson said in a telephone interview Thursday afternoon. "I stood 20 feet back from these officers when [one] said 'we don't need to see your damn letters, don't come over here and fight us on this' while the other one just stood there mute. That seems to me like a lack of control."[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Anderson said he was outside of the restaurant trying to discuss Second Amendment law with one of the officers when he was cursed at, adding that the supervisor was within earshot and did not intervene.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]Skinner's findings show that the officers declined to accept literature from the group and are not obligated to do so.[/font][/font]
[font="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"][font="verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"]He added in a telephone interview Wednesday that the department's investigation was "thorough, competent and fair" and that he stands behind the findings.[/font][/font]