Lunch with LEOs?

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I was talking with a coworker about the issues surrounding the Tony's incident. He has heard some of the arguements from both sides because he's involved in the local community and knows several officers (not any involved). He made the suguestion of opening friendly talks by seeing if some of the local officers and some of the local packing people would sit and just have light conversation over lunch.

This should not be used to barage an officer with questions, but rather further mutual understanding of views on both sides. It would also go far for public acceptance and desensitization of the masses to see armed citizens sitting and chatting with oficers in a friendly manner.

I think this is a great idea, I'm just not sure how to go about organizing something like this. I only know a couple of officers on an associate level (most being PWC). I would hope that the officers would be open to something like this, but don't know at what level to actually start proposing this.

I work in the Manassas area and would be open to being involved with something like this. If we get anything started, the groups should be small so we can get to know each other and have short discussions that would allow the officers to enjoy their meal and to still get back to work on time. These types of groups could grow into various meetings throughout the metro area and help further our acceptance.

The primary goals should be to keep the meetings social and enjoyable. When I was at college, I knew most of the campus officers and even had guns and grill days with some of them... I would hope we might be able to strike some of the same types of relationships with our local officers.

Am I just overly hopeful or could we get something like this off the ground?

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Here's my view.

It's a good idea on paper. I think getting cops to do this would be hard, unless you have personal contacts.

I don't have the desire to do this myself. 1) If they agree that citizens should carry, then great we are already on the same page. 2) If they do not, then I already know 'their' side, no need to hear the same old tired reasons.

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Well I am always in favor of opening up the lines of communications. But most Officers would likely not be allowed to participate. But there are a number of cafes and restaurants that are common lunch stops for Officers during their shift. It might be possible to arrange a visit at such a location.

BUT it would be very important to have a "liaison" officer set this up in advance.

It will only work in a positive way if the right people attend. If someone wants to grind an axe, the whole thing will go bad very fast.

Regards

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Ironically, I was one of the Tony's 7, and my future son-in-law is a Prince William County police officer. So we pack heat together all the time. A matter of fact he is like a kid in a toy store when we go to gun stores and shooting together. He is very pro gun and is of the opinion as long as you are well trained in the use of your firearm and know the gun laws (Manassas feels that they are above VA laws) there is no problem. He thinks that the Manassas PD are a dept. that hires rejects. Hense their officers have a self-importance "I am godlike" mentality within their PD. I never ever had nothing but respect for all LEOs...until the Tony's incident. Now I have no respect for that PD. Know that Manasas PD is the only PD I feel this way. Howevee I have a good working relationship with Fairfax County and Prince William County PDs. They are a real department. From now on I avoid Manassas like a concentration camp and when I have to drive through it I hate every minute of it. From the Tony's incident I learned that the Manassas PD views open carry gun owners like a Nazi views a Jew. If I have to sit with a LOE it will be with real police officers and not Nazis dressed as LEOs.

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there is nothing saying this would have to start this in Manassas. I think if something like this started in a more friendly region, then maybe when officers talked between departments the conversation would reflect positive relationships.

I guess I am a dreamer who is just hoping to find a way to bridge the divide...

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coltcarrier wrote:

I guess I am a dreamer who is just hoping to find a way to bridge the divide...

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Personally, I only have a problem with cops who overstep,act unprofessionally, or harbor negative attitudes about citizens, etc.

With me, it isn't a situation where conservatives and liberals should get together to understand one another's position so they can solve things with bipartisanship. It isn't a situation where the Sunni's and Shi'ites should get together andsee thatthe guy across the table isn't all that bad.

With me, the situation is thatcertain cops need to knock it off or get out of the profession. Analogous citizens need to knock it off.

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mlands wrote:

Ironically, I was one of the Tony's 7, and my future son-in-law is a Prince William County police officer. So we pack heat together all the time. A matter of fact he is like a kid in a toy store when we go to gun stores and shooting together. He is very pro gun and is of the opinion as long as you are well trained in the use of your firearm and know the gun laws (Manassas feels that they are above VA laws) there is no problem. He thinks that the Manassas PD are a dept. that hires rejects. Hense their officers have a self-importance "I am godlike" mentality within their PD. I never ever had nothing but respect for all LEOs...until the Tony's incident. Now I have no respect for that PD. Know that Manasas PD is the only PD I feel this way. Howevee I have a good working relationship with Fairfax County and Prince William County PDs. They are a real department. From now on I avoid Manassas like a concentration camp and when I have to drive through it I hate every minute of it. From the Tony's incident I learned that the Manassas PD views open carry gun owners like a Nazi views a Jew. If I have to sit with a LOE it will be with real police officers and not Nazis dressed as LEOs.

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It's a shame honest citizens have to feel this way about a police dept. I feel the same way when I enter Manassas, which is almost daily. I am constantly checking my mirror and looking over my shoulder. It sucks!!

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VAopencarry wrote:

mlands wrote:

Ironically, I was one of the Tony's 7, and my future son-in-law is a Prince William County police officer. So we pack heat together all the time. A matter of fact he is like a kid in a toy store when we go to gun stores and shooting together. He is very pro gun and is of the opinion as long as you are well trained in the use of your firearm and know the gun laws (Manassas feels that they are above VA laws) there is no problem. He thinks that the Manassas PD are a dept. that hires rejects. Hense their officers have a self-importance "I am godlike" mentality within their PD. I never ever had nothing but respect for all LEOs...until the Tony's incident. Now I have no respect for that PD. Know that Manasas PD is the only PD I feel this way. Howevee I have a good working relationship with Fairfax County and Prince William County PDs. They are a real department. From now on I avoid Manassas like a concentration camp and when I have to drive through it I hate every minute of it. From the Tony's incident I learned that the Manassas PD views open carry gun owners like a Nazi views a Jew. If I have to sit with a LOE it will be with real police officers and not Nazis dressed as LEOs.

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It's a shame honest citizens have to feel this way about a police dept. I feel the same way when I enter Manassas, which is almost daily. I am constantly checking my mirror and looking over my shoulder. It sucks!!

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I understand, more than you might expect, how you feel at this point. But somehow you need to eventually put this in perspective. It is only natural to think of this as a sort of universal problem right now, but it is actually an individual problem. Not ALL LEOs are bad. The few that are magnify the problem beyond all reasonable proportions, because the impact is so severe.

There are more than just those 7 "Officers" and their Chief on the force. Some of them are probably ok. Once the anger from this dies down some you may get to meet some of the good ones. This is just another example of how one bad LEO can destroy the work and good name of 1000 good ones.

Regards

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We are lucky to be cleared to eat.. and then it has to be quick. :banghead:All the other officershave to eat too. I am not sure how easy it would be to actually get with a LEO to have a meal.

Ifeel there is no reason to seek out a lunch with LEO to create any understanding on both sides. If you OC and are contacted... kill him with kindness and respect. He will not have a bad thing to say about you to any other officer.

Some LEOs do not like those that OC thinking they are gun happy and looking for trouble. Some have been poisoned by the notion of law suit shopping. Some could care less. If you give the LEO an attitude.... your convincing him to the negative.

And yes.... each department has a different caliber of officer and not all officers are the same. Think of it this way... Most future LEOs will apply for the big departments that are respected and pay well. If rejected... they start applying for smaller and smaller departments. Eventually getting hired by one who needs a body and will take anyone alive.

The larger departments often times get first crack at the best candidates. Those with great backgrounds and good attitudes. The smaller departments get what was rejected and the left overs.

Some LEOs may have started off with the small department for other reasons. So you cannot assume that all the officers for a department were rejects.


Most of you are welcome to have lunch with me.. There are a few here that scare me. See there is always a bad apple in every group.. even here.

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Hawkflyer wrote:

This is just another example of how one bad LEO can destroy the work and good name of 1000 good ones.

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Hawk, can the same occur for other situations? Let's say, OCers. Or CCers.

Can one OCer destroy the good name of 1000 good ones if he does something rotten?

Can one CCer destroy the name of 100 good ones of he does something really bad?

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HankT wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

 This is just another example of how one bad LEO can destroy the work and good name of 1000 good ones.

Click to expand...

Hawk, can the same occur for other situations? Let's say, OCers. Or CCers.

Can one OCer destroy the good name of 1000 good ones if he does something rotten?

Can one CCer destroy the name of 100 good ones of he does something really bad?

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These have to be rhetorical questions, but YOUR DAMN RIGHT!

IMHO this is the main reason a lot of the bravado I here from people who carry is just plain wrong. If you carry you take on a responsibility to act and speak carefully. In part this is because it reflects on all of us, and in part it is because firearms carry is an awesome responsibility. The impressions we leave are lasting on those who observe them simply because we are firearms owners.

My Father once told me the heaviest weight you will ever carry is one pound of iron in a leather holster, and he was right.

To some extent it can work the other way too. But people remember the one bad experience a lot longer than the many good ones.

regards

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If you carry you take on a responsibility to act and speak carefully. In part this is because it reflects on all of us, and in part it is because firearms carry is an awesome responsibility. The impressions we leave are lasting on those who observe them simply because we are firearms owners.

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+1 Hawkflyer

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HankT wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

This is just another example of how one bad LEO can destroy the work and good name of 1000 good ones.

Click to expand...

Hawk, can the same occur for other situations? Let's say, OCers. Or CCers.

Can one OCer destroy the good name of 1000 good ones if he does something rotten?

Can one CCer destroy the name of 100 good ones of he does something really bad?

Click to expand...

The odd thing is that I had been carrying a firearm (six years as a MP & LEO before switching to the FD) way before these so-called officers were pottie trained. Earned a "Top Cop award in the MPs and had a VA concealed weapons permit back in the days before Virginia was a "shall carry" state. So I was really put off by the snotty attitiude of the entire MCPD evening shift who responded and treated us like dirt and lawbreakers. So now this event has been whitewashed by the MCPD Chief who won't or is hesitant to really seek the ugly truth and puts on the political spin. I doubt that they took lie detector tests and were really grilled. The thing is I had a feelling that it would all eventually be downplayed, whitewashed and given spin. I'd take a lie detector test from an an independent examiner if they will, but the Cheif wants this downplayed and behind him.

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mlands wrote:

HankT wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

 This is just another example of how one bad LEO can destroy the work and good name of 1000 good ones.

Click to expand...

Hawk, can the same occur for other situations? Let's say, OCers. Or CCers.

Can one OCer destroy the good name of 1000 good ones if he does something rotten?

Can one CCer destroy the name of 100 good ones of he does something really bad?

Click to expand...

The odd thing is that I had been carrying a firearm (six years as a MP & LEO before switching to the FD) way before these so-called officers were pottie trained.  Earned a "Top Cop award in the MPs and had a VA concealed weapons permit back in the days before  Virginia was a "shall carry" state.  So I was really put off by the snotty attitiude of the entire MCPD evening shift who responded and treated us like dirt and lawbreakers. So now this event has been whitewashed by the MCPD Chief who won't or is hesitant to really seek the ugly truth and puts on the political spin. I doubt that they took lie detector tests and were really grilled.  The thing is I had a feelling that it would all eventually be downplayed, whitewashed and given spin. I'd take a lie detector test from an an independent examiner if they will, but the Cheif wants this downplayed and behind him.

Click to expand...

I too expected the precise result that was achieved.

Regards