Mike wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
I am not saying you have to physically possess an ID card... Just that you need to prove who you are.
. . .
Class 1 and 2 are CCRE reportable so that means you would be fingerprinted and photographed.
No, you are wrong - no need to "prove" who your are, just discontinue the unlawful act, provide name and address, and sign the summons; and that goes for Class 1/2 also - so says a unanimous decision from the Virginia Supreme Court in Moore v. Commonwealth, 636 S.E.2d 395 (2006) (suppressing evidence obtained pursuant to search incident to arrest for a class 1 misdemeanor because the arrest was unlawful in that arrest for Class 1 misdemeanors are generally statutorily prohibited by Va. Code). See also the 1991 formal VA AG Opinion by Mary Sue Terry declared that the plain meaning of § 19.2-74 is that an "Arresting Officer Is Required to Release Person Under § 19.2-74 Unless Officer Determines that Person Qualifies for One or More Specified Exceptions to Summons Procedure." Va. Op. Atty. Gen. 127, WL 531052 (Va. A.G.). No authority before or after this AG opinion conflicts on this question.
Lets see... 2:00 am on Easter Sunday morning. A person is seen in a store carrying a sidearm. He is stopped by 4 police officers, who are not certain of the law and my be upset by the responses they are getting. He turns out to be under 21 which raises addition issues. The situation may be aggravated by the perceived attitude of the suspect.
This certainly sounds like the time to press your rights to the limit and explain the finer points of the Terry decision. If you don't think this situation would raise suspicion, you are not familiar with bible belt Virginia.
The fact is that if the Officers had an articulatable cause for the initial stop, and they cannot identify the person, they WILL in many cases take the person into custody until they can make a positive ID. It is a fact no matter what the law says. Ninety-nine times out of 100 the person will take no action against them beyond a complaint if this happens. Welcome to post 9/11 America.
The simple way to avoid the issue is to provide your ID if you have one. If you are carrying a weapon and you are not carrying an ID you are asking for trouble no matter what the law says. That is just the reality of things.
While right and wrong may seem very clear in front of a keyboard the next day, the fact is that it does not work that way in the real world. Pushing your rights to the limit needs to be tempered by reason and thoughtful discourse. If it is not then you can expect to have your rights routinely violated in more serious ways, because you are asking for it.
This situation went sour long before any issue related to detention arose, and in fact the issue of detention was raised by the conduct of the suspect himself. The two hours was spent looking for a reason to arrest him simply because in their view he was belligerent and the situation looked suspicious to them.
All he had to do was say "No I do not know why you stopped me." The Officer would have very likely asked why he had a weapon, and he could have simply said, "It is late at night and I have it for self defense." This would have set a completely different stage for the events that followed. The Officer would likely have asked for an ID, and the guy would have been on his way.
These situations do not happen in a vacuum, and you need to think about that and pick your fights. On Friday a man was charged with providing his underage son with firearms that were subsequently used to kill two Police Officers in Fairfax County. I can assure you these four Officers knew about that.
Regards
Man that would tick you off.. You really did want to know.