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Thread: Ask Hawkflyer a question

  1. #1
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    I work for a department that prohibits my off duty carry to concealed only.I have carried openly, as a private citizen (no police powers involved), in states where that is not prohibited, using my own firearm and ammo.

    Are you aware of whether or notmy department regulations can apply to my out of state activity where I am not acting/carrying under the powers that my employment grant? (and I realize you areVA specific and not CA).

    However, when carrying concealed under HR 218 (State Peace Officer National Concealed Carry exemption from State CCW laws) I could see my department claiming that I can't OC. I haven't asked my brass and won't because that is just begging for attention and a denial.

    Now, I could see my department making discipline(even termination)stick if my out of state activities amounted to "conduct unbecoming an officer" and did verge on an unlawfully act and I was detained or arrested and my department was notified.

    But I would like to think I could OC off dutywithout jeopardizing my jobwhen outside this Republik.

    Do you have any thoughts or experiencewith this kind ofinternaldept. regulationmatters? I would ask my association's attorneys ( who would be defending me in an IA) but they would just not understand the desire to OC as a citizen out of state.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    I work for a department that prohibits my off duty carry to concealed only.¬*¬*I have carried openly, as a private citizen (no police powers involved), in states where that is not prohibited, using my own firearm and ammo.

    Are you aware of whether or not¬*my department regulations can apply to my out of state activity where I am not acting/carrying under the powers that my employment grant? (and I realize you are¬*VA specific and not CA).

    However, when carrying concealed under HR 218 (State Peace Officer National Concealed Carry exemption from State CCW laws) I could see my department claiming that I can't OC.¬* I haven't asked my brass and won't because that is just begging for attention and a denial.

    Now, I could see my department making discipline(even termination)¬*stick if my out of state activities amounted to "conduct unbecoming an officer" and did verge on an unlawfully act and I was detained or arrested and my department was notified.

    But I would like to think I could OC off duty¬*without jeopardizing my job¬*when outside this Republik.

    Do you have any thoughts or experience¬*with this kind of¬*internal¬*dept. regulation¬*matters?¬* I would ask my association's attorneys ( who would be defending me in an IA) but they would just not understand the desire to OC as a citizen out of state.
    Ok, so lets be clear, I did not start this thread. Neither my opinions nor my ego are than important.

    In the federal system there is no such thing as outside the jurisdiction, with the exception of a few Indian Reservations. So my situation is different than yours. But I talk to guys from all over and it varies from state to state and department to department. You would have to check in general terms how your department handles personal activities outside their jurisdiction.

    But part of the answer to your question would be that if you are in Virginia. You can open carry if you can legally possess the weapon. It is actually that straight forward. Your department has no jurisdiction here, so short of being arrested for some crime, it should be none of their business.

    Of course you can CC in Virginia under either reciprocity with another state (I would have to check but I do not believe California has reciprocity with Virginia ) or with a non-resident Virginia CHP. Of course you can CC under the federal provisions. But all of these situations may require you to identify your department at some point, and that may cause you trouble.

    If you are off duty, and Virginia is not your jurisdiction depending on the interpretation applied to the code you might be considered as having constable status. Which means that no matter what your intent, there is some quasi official status involved.

    As to your particular department, I would think (this is a guess) that they would be hard pressed to get you for conduct unbecoming since you carry openly all day on the job, and you presumably would not be "posing" as a LEO in another jurisdiction. The only place you could get jammed up would be if you had to show credentials to prove your employment. Your department could take a dim view of that.

    In my agency use of creds in ANY unofficial identification is a firing offense. In fact just showing them to someone in an unofficial capacity is a violation. We are specifically prohibited from showing them in non-work related traffic stops and other similar local enforcement encounters, even if the Officer requests ID after asking where we work.

    I am certain your department is the same as mine in regards to contact with Law Enforcement in unofficial situations. We have to report all such contacts in writing, as soon as is practicable after the incident. A lot of our guys get tagged for waiting even a few days to submit that paper.

    In our equivalent of your IA, if you do something that puts you in their system, your life becomes a living hell for as much as two years, and the investigation almost always opens up to include every aspect of your personal and professional life.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
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