Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: WV loses Gold Star Open Carry State status :(

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post


    **************************************

    OpenCarry.org Press Release – 15 April 2007

    **************************************

    OpenCarry.org regrets this announcement but it must be made - we have determined that there are grandfathered open carry bans on the books in Charleston, Dunbar, and possibly other unknown localities.

    It is of course arguable, and frankly likely, that these few local open carry bans are invalid as unconstitutionally violative of Article III, Section 22 of the West Virginia Constitution[1]as construed by the West Virginia Supreme Court in State ex rel. City of Princeton v. Buckner, 377 S.E.2d 139 (W.Va. 1988) (striking down West Virginia's statute requiring a license to carry any weapon as an overbroad regulation of arms not permitted under Article III, Section 22 of the West Virginia Constitution).

    Subsequent to State ex rel. City of Princeton v. Buckner, the West Virginia legislature enacted a new gun carry license law that only required licenses to “conceal carry” handguns. This is the majority statutory rule across the United States.

    But OpenCarry.org has no crystal ball which predicts how a court would likely rule. Accordingly, as it is ambiguous if a citizen may lawfully open carry in localities like Charleston and Dunbar with grandfathered open carry bans not yet explicitly struck down by a court of law, West Virginia will now be categorized as an anomalous open carry state.

    We urge the legislature to clear the air and enact full preemption of local gun control as a matter of statutory law – and regain West Virginia’s Gold Star Open Carry state status!

    ##########################
    Contact anytime on gun stories:
    Mike Stollenwerk/John Pierce
    http://www.OpenCarry.org
    ##########################

    [1] Article III, Section 22 of the West Virginia Constitution provides in full that “A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use.”



  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    186

    Post imported post

    you gotta be ing kidding me.





  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Princeton, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    152

    Post imported post

    30 cal **** wrote:
    you gotta be ing kidding me.



    What's fact is fact and WV should be classified accordingly. This does not in any way change the reaction you would recieve anywhere else for OC. We can try to work on this and get the ordinances lifted but until then, we should be classified according to the rules.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    206

    Post imported post

    I sure would like to see more states becoming Gold Star, not the other way around. I hope WV clears this up and regains their Gold Star open carry status!

  5. #5
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    We are working on improving West Virginia's state preemption law. We plan to have SB 715 reintroduced in 2008 and get it passed. SB 715 would have created a consolidated preemption law that would (1) eliminate the grandfather clause in the existing municipal preemption law and (2) preempt state agency rules, regulations, or other administrative actions creating any restrictions on our right to keep and bear arms that have not been enacted by the Legislature.

    Because SB 715is a long bill (to clean up various statutory provisions), the actual language of our proposed new state preemption law is contained in proposed § 61-7-13 close to the end of the bill text.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  6. #6
    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    511

    Post imported post

    OUCH!!! Demoted:shock:

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Princeton, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    152

    Post imported post

    Jim, since you brought up the bills, that reminds me, when are we planning on another meeting? I should be able to make one on a weekend this summer.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    As a pratical matter I don't think the ban in Charleston means much. My wife observed a lady in a cafe in downtown Charleston sporting a revolver being carried in a very obvious manner. Likewise today I observed another lady with a large semi-auto on her hip as she shopped at Office Max which is in thecity limits.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,244

    Post imported post

    wvshooter wrote:
    As a pratical matter I don't think the ban in Charleston means much. My wife observed a lady in a cafe in downtown Charleston sporting a revolver being carried in a very obvious manner. Likewise today I observed another lady with a large semi-auto on her hip as she shopped at Office Max which is in thecity limits.
    It "means" plenty when a person is arrested, booked and charged with a crime...it's only a matter of time before an officer decides to do it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , Illinois, USA
    Posts
    85

    Post imported post

    Any new news about progress toward West Virginia getting its gold star status back? The more gold star states the better!

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    It looks like it's been changed to SB 732. SB 730 was also submitted this past Feb. Senator Sprouse (re)introduced them both on Feb 18:

    http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bulleti...41st%20day.htm

    http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_St...amp;btype=bill

  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    Johnyt101 wrote:
    Any new news about progress toward West Virginia getting its gold star status back? The more gold star states the better!
    We actually have two problems. The first is the well-aged piece of Swiss cheese that is our preemption law, which has already been discussed here; SB 732 (2008)would have fixed this problem. The second is a variety of firearm regulations under West Virginia's hunting laws, specifically W.Va. Code 20-2-5(9); SB 319 (2008) would have fixed this problem.

    Here is a legislative analysis I prepared for SB 319:
    Senate Bill 319 clarifies several contradictory and confusing provisions of West Virginia’s hunting laws that regulate where, when, and how firearms may be legally carried. These regulations are relics of a time when state law generally prohibited being armed outside one’s home, with the primary exception of hunting. Until 1988, West Virginia law required a license to carry any deadly weapon outside one’s home and, under this law, it was virtually impossible for the average, law-abiding citizen to get a license. This statute was declared unconstitutional in State ex rel. City of Princeton[/i] v. [/i]Buckner[/i][/i].[1] In response to the Buckner[/i] decision, the Legislature changed state law to require a license only to carry a concealed weapon and establish a nondiscretionary “shall issue” licensing system to enable law-abiding citizens who are trained in handling and firing a handgun and pass a background check to be licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

    The regulations addressed in SB 319 were designed to prevent poaching and, more insidiously, prevent people from “abusing” the hunting exemption to the old weapons law. In 2002, the Legislature enacted West Virginia Code § 20-2-6a to clarify that these regulations were not to be applied to individuals carrying a concealed handgun with a license to carry it. However, these regulations still infringe on the right to open carry in a vehicle or in wooded areas, even for people who are licensed to carry concealed weapons.

    There is substantial confusion over how numerous firearm regulations under West Virginia’s hunting laws apply to handguns carried for self-defense purposes. For an example of this confusion, compare the conflicting statements of the State Police at http://www.wvstatepolice.com/legal/faq.html (open carry in a vehicle is legal) with the Division of Natural Resources at http://www.wvdnr.gov/Regulations/hunting_genregs.shtm (loaded firearms in vehicles illegal except concealed handguns carried with concealed handgun license). Although there is some public perception that these regulations are subject to an interpretation that they somehow only apply to guns configured by hunting, that perception is without clear support in either the statute or case law.[2] However, the Supreme Court of Appeals has upheld the statute prohibiting the vehicular transportation of a loaded firearm against a constitutional challenge under our state constitution’s right to keep and bear arms provision.[3] If anything, this decision “leaves the right to keep and bear arms in an extremely vague and contradictory state.”[4]

    Under SB 319, the regulations on how firearms are to be carried in vehicles, in wooded areas, and in certain other situations regulated by the hunting laws are amended to only apply to rifles and shotguns to eliminate the substantial confusion over how handguns may be carried for self-defense purposes. SB 319 also exempts from these revised regulations individuals who are licensed or otherwise authorized by law to carry concealed handguns. SB 319 also clarifies that regulations on the types of weapons that may be carried by persons bowhunting, tending traps on Sundays where Sunday hunting is prohibited, training dogs, and hunting with a handgun under a handgun hunting stamp do not prevent the otherwise lawful carrying of handguns, either openly or concealed, for lawful self-defense purposes. SB 319 does not affect other anti-poaching regulations, such as the general prohibition on hunting from a vehicle under § 20-2-5(4), or the regulations under § 20-2-58 governing the discharge of firearms.


    [1] 180 W.Va. 457, 377 S.E.2d 139 (1988).

    [2] But see, State ex rel. West Virginia Div. of Nat. Resources v. Cline[/i], 200 W.Va. 101, 110, 488 S.E.2d 376, 385 (1997) (Maynard, J., dissenting) (suggesting that firearm regulations under Chapter 20 of the West Virginia Code are only applied in practice to hunters) (majority slip opinion available online at http://www.state.wv.us/wvsca/docs/spring97/23840.htm; dissenting slip opinion available online at http://www.state.wv.us/wvsca/docs/spring97/23840d.htm).

    [3] Id.[/i]

    [4] Id.[/i] at 114, 488 S.E.2d at 389 (Maynard, J., dissenting).


    We have proposed legislation on both fronts and will continue working on them during the next legislative session, which begins in February. We have updated & improved both the preemption reform and hunting law revision bills from their 2008 versions.

    I am open to any help in reviewing & editing our proposed bills.[Edit: I am seeking input for the specific language of our proposals. Many of the issues on our agenda are available here. Our 2008 legislative tracking service notes at the end of the applicable bills' summaries those bills we authored.] Please PM me if you would like to see the current drafts.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    11

    Post imported post

    i was wondering if there are any new updates to this as i would like the whole state to be open carry.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Inwood, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    60

    Post imported post

    You asked at the right time. From today's WVCDL Alert:

    1. BAD BILL ON THE HORIZON

    Truly “bad” bills are a rarity at the Legislature. Our greatest challenges are preventing bad provisions from being tucked inside unrelated bills and passing good bills. However, yesterday was an exception.

    Yesterday, Senator Ed Bowman, D-Hancock, introduced SB 590, which requires that the driver’s license of any person who has a concealed handgun license be marked with a special notation indicating that he or she has a CHL.

    SB 590 is a bad bill that must not be passed in any form and which WVCDL STRONGLY OPPOSES.

    SB 590 is the product of a Legislative Auditor’s report last year on the State Police that made several recommendations for changing the concealed handgun licensing law. The full report is available at http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Joint/P...ce_11_2008.pdf (go to pages 34-37 of the PDF file). This report suggested that this change would protect the safety of law-enforcement officers and prevent potentially tense encounters if a law-enforcement officer discovered a weapon during a traffic stop prior to learning that the person carrying it has a CHL.

    When we first reported on this proposal on November 25, 2008, we noted that the State Police was not very receptive to this idea (much to their credit). The Associated Press reported at that time (http://www.dailymail.com/News/200811190123) that “Legislative auditors and West Virginia State Police Deputy Superintendent Steve Tucker said they were unaware of an instance when an officer was confronted by someone licensed to carry a concealed weapon. ‘Anecdotally, concealed weapon permit holders are law-abiding citizens that we generally don’t have as defendants in criminal cases,’ Tucker said.”

    Ordinarily, I could rest my case on Deputy Superintendent Tucker’s comments. However, SB 590 presents another problem that neither legislative auditors nor the media addressed: the effect this proposal will have on gun owners traveling in hostile states like Maryland. I commented in our November 25, 2008, update, “Imagine what would happen during a traffic stop in Maryland or some other anti-gun northeastern state if the state trooper saw that you had a West Virginia gun permit, even if you left your gun at home and thus was complying with that state’s laws! Or, imagine the harassment you might face if you were transporting an unloaded, securely stored firearm on an interstate trip per the federal Firearm Owner’s Protection Act of 1986.” Make no mistake, if SB 590 is passed and implemented, we will face significantly greater police harassment during traffic stops in Maryland and other anti-gun states, even when we are in compliance with their very restrictive gun laws.

    Another problem: By indicating on driver’s licenses whether the person has a CHL, we will be advertising to many more people than law-enforcement officers whether we have CHLs. Think about all the occasions when you are asked to show ID. Banks, employers, landlords, delivery persons, and many other people with whom we interact may request (and occasionally copy and keep on file) a photo ID. They not only do not need to know whether each of us has a CHL—giving certain people, such as anti-gun employers, this information will actually impose severe personal inconveniences to us and invade our privacy when dealing with these situations.

    Finally, as it is written, SB 590 will also be a bureaucratic hassle for both us and the DMV. Given the different renewal cycles of driver’s licenses and concealed handgun licenses and the fact that a few licenses are revoked (and sometimes later reinstated) each year, tens of thousands of West Virginians will at least double their frequency of visits to DMV offices.

    SB 590 has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee. I will be contacting Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Jeff Kessler and the committee members urge them to not pass SB 590. I encourage you to go to http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Committ....cfm?Chart=jud and contact your senator (one senator from every district serves on the Senate Judiciary Committee) and the other senators on the committee.


    2. BILL TO CLOSE PREEMPTION LOOPHOLE INTRODUCED

    Now, for the good news. Today, Senators John Unger, D-Berkeley, Mike Green, D-Raleigh, Karen Facemyer, R-Jackson, Jeff Kessler, D-Marshall, Mike Oliverio, D-Monongalia, Ed Bowman, D-Hancock, Larry Edgell, D-Wetzel, Jesse Guills, R-Greenbrier, and Bob Plymale, D-Wayne, introduced SB 621, which amends the statute allowing property owners to prohibit weapons from their premises to provide that the statute only applies with respect to PRIVATE property owners.

    SB 621 is a good start and would, among other things, kick the legs out from under the City of Martinsburg’s argument that this statute gives them a way around preemption by allowing them to ban weapons in city buildings.

    However, SB 621 is only a START. WVCDL will be working with pro-gun legislators to amend SB 621 to (1) repeal the grandfather clause in the municipal preemption statute to eliminate grandfathered gun bans in Charleston, Dunbar, and South Charleston; (2) subject state agencies (including all state colleges & universities) to preemption; and (3) provide for more effective preemption enforcement by requiring a court to award any plaintiff who succeeds in a civil action challenging a preemption violation the plaintiff’s court costs, attorney fees, and other reasonable litigation expenses.

    Please Contact Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Jeff Kessler (who is a cosponsor of SB 621) and the other members of the Senate Judiciary Committee (http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Committ....cfm?Chart=jud) and urge them to pass SB 621 with WVCDL’s proposed substitute amendment.

    You can track the status of and WVCDL’s positions on all gun-related legislation through WVCDL’s Legislative Tracking Service at http://www.wvcdl.org/LegislationTracking.html


    Jim Mullins
    President, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Chairman, WVCDL-PAC
    president@wvcdl.org
    http://www.wvcdl.org
    http://www.wvcdl-pac.org

    EFI, LLC - 07/C2 in Inwood, WV
    Custom firearms, gunsmithing, machine gun rentals, and it's just $10 for a Transfer!

  15. #15
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    Two bills were introduced today to fix these problems:

    HB 3333 revises various hunting-related laws to clarify the legality of openly carrying handguns.

    HB 3335 strengthens preemption to void grandfathered ordinances and bring state agencies (including all state colleges & universities) under preemption.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , Illinois, USA
    Posts
    85

    Post imported post

    This from the NRAs website, good luck guys on getting your Gold Star Status back!







    Bill to Fix Statewide Preemption Heads to Senate Floor in West Virginia!



    Friday, March 27, 2009




    Senate Bill 621 was passed earlier this week by the Senate Judiciary Committee.

    SB621 is a technical clean up preemption firearm laws. The city of Martinsburg took it upon themselves to exploit a provision in a section of the statute which they felt authorized them to prohibit the carrying of firearms on all city-owned property. This bill would remove the language being exploited and therefore nullify the Martinsburg ordinance. It was already the determination of the West Virginia legislature to preempt cities, counties, and municipalities to regulate firearms and this bill will once again provide consistency in statute.

    Please contact your State Senator TODAY and respectfully urge them to support SB621. Contact information can be found here.


  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , Illinois, USA
    Posts
    85

    Post imported post

    SB 621 passed the Senate!!! WV is another step closer to getting back its Gold Star Status!

    The bill is now in the House Judiciary committee so start those phone calls and emails!

  18. #18
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    SB 621 is only one piece of the puzzle. However, it does not address grandfathered ordinances (W.Va. Code §8-12-5a exempts municipal ordinances passed before June 1, 1999)(HB 3335 would eliminate grandfathered ordinances and subject state agencies to preemption as well as local governments). It also does not address the confusing but seldom-enforced Chapter 20 firearm rules (primarily contained in W.Va. Code §20-2-5) (HB 3333 would address this issue).

    SB 621 is progress but the return of the Gold Star is not on the horizon.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Milton, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    65

    Post imported post

    I know Charleston and Dunbar have grandfathered ordinances against open carry. Is there a thread somewhere (or can we start one ?) listing which cities in WV have ordinances on the books ?

    I live in Milton, I'm gonna check with local LEO and I'll post whatI find out.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    11

    Post imported post

    Well once again i was wondering if there have been any updates to all of this? i haven't been able to check for a little while.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •