• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Shooting at Virginia Tech

Kelly J

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
493
Location
Blue Springs, Missouri, United States
imported post

A shooting on a Virginia Tech. School, it is reported that 22 dead 21 Injured, the perp is reported to be dead.

This will no doubt cause fervor of anti Gun rhetoric, to assail the news for the next couple of week’s maybe more.
 

vega480

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
36
Location
NA
imported post

Such a horrible tragedy, waiting to see how this pans out and how people are going to react to current gun laws in that state.
 

vrwmiller

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
1,043
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

How is this for ironic? Roanoke Times published an article, that many of you probably already know about, on the 13th titled "Virginia Tech's ban on guns may draw legal fire". (See below for the entire article).

In the article, VT spokesman, Larry Hincker was quoted saying

We think we have the right to adhere to and enforce that policy because, in the end, we think it's a common-sense policy for the protection of students, staff and faculty as well as guests and visitors
I wonder what his follow-up response to the families of those students murdered today would be following today's incident.

Had students and faculty been permitted to carry firearms, the number of casualties could have been dramactically lower.


http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

/*** Start of article ***/

[font="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"] By Kevin Miller
[/font]381-1676

BLACKSBURG - Virginia Tech's recent action against a student caught carrying a gun to class could draw unwanted attention from groups already angry about firearms restrictions on public college campuses.

University officials confirmed that, earlier this semester, campus police approached a student found to be carrying a concealed handgun to class. The unnamed student was not charged with any crimes because he holds a state-issued permit allowing him to carry a concealed gun. But the student could face disciplinary action from the university for violating its policy prohibiting "unauthorized possession, storage or control" of firearms on campus.

Tech spokesman Larry Hincker declined to release the student's name or specifics of the incident, citing rules protecting student confidentiality. But Hincker said Tech's ban on guns dates back several decades.
Students who violate the school policy could be called before the university's internal judicial affairs system, which has wide discretion in handing down penalties ranging from a reprimand to expulsion.
"I think it's fair to say that we believe guns don't belong in the classroom," Hincker said. "In an academic environment, we believe you should be free from fear."

Most public colleges in Virginia ban or restrict guns on campus. But the root of that authority is murky, according to some observers.

Virginia law already prohibits students or visitors from carrying guns onto the grounds of public and private K-12 schools. The state also prohibits concealed weapons in courthouses, places of worship during a service, jails and on any private property where the owner has posted a "no guns" notice. State employees are barred from possessing guns while at work unless needed for their job.

But Virginia code is silent on guns and public colleges. And two bills seeking to give college governing boards the authority to regulate firearms on campus died in committee during this year's General Assembly session.

David Briggman, a resident of Keezletown in Rockingham County, has made it his personal mission to challenge state colleges' authority to enact tougher gun restrictions than the state.

Briggman, who is a former police officer, said he forced Blue Ridge Community College to allow him to carry a gun onto campus while a student. And he sued James Madison University over its ban on concealed weapons even among permit holders. While JMU's policy still stands, Briggman said he has been told by campus police officials that they will not arrest visitors who carry a gun legally.

"It's extremely easy to challenge university policy by looking at ... whether they are given the statutory authority to regulate firearms on campus, and of course, they're not," Briggman said Tuesday.

Hincker, meanwhile, said it is not unusual for colleges to have more restrictive policies than the state. As an example, Hincker said certain chemicals and explosives that are legal on the outside are prohibited in the classroom or in dormitories for safety reasons.

"We think we have the right to adhere to and enforce that policy because, in the end, we think it's a common-sense policy for the protection of students, staff and faculty as well as guests and visitors," Hincker said.

Virginia Tech also has the backing of the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police. In a policy position paper dated April 1, association executive director Dana Schrad wrote that the presence of guns on college campuses "adds a dangerous element to an environment in which alcohol is a compounding factor." Students should not have to be concerned about guns on campus, Schrad wrote.

"The excellent reputation of Virginia's colleges and universities depends in part on the public's belief that they are sending their college-age children to safe environments," the policy paper reads.

At least one attorney who represents college students would like to see the concealed-carry permit issue clarified.

John Robertson, the Student Legal Services attorney at Tech, said he's heard differing interpretations of the policy at Tech. Robertson, whose position is funded through the Student Government Association's budget, does not represent students in disputes with the university but offers free legal advice and services to students on civil and criminal matters.

Robertson said he would like to see either a court or the state Attorney General's Office resolve the matter. As for a university's refusal to honor a concealed-carry permit, Robertson added: "I am dubious that one particular arm of the state can do so without a particular statute."

Hincker acknowledged that the concealed guns issue had "never been tested" and that the university could be opening itself up to legal action.

"But we stand by the policy unequivocally," Hincker said.
 

cato

Newbie
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
2,338
Location
California, USA
imported post

vrwmiller wrote:
We think we have the right to adhere to and enforce that policy because, in the end, we think it's a common-sense policy for the protection of students, staff and faculty as well as guests and visitors
I wonder what his follow-up response to the families of those students murdered today would be following today's incident.

Had students and faculty been permitted to carry firearms, the number of casualties could have been dramatically lower.

Yes, and if the criminal shooter had known students and faculty might be armed, this may never have happened. Or been stopped sooner.
 

mlands

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
152
Location
Centreville, Virginia, USA
imported post

Instead of being quiet,those that have kids at that campuswho are pro gun should put the"no guns on campus" policyin the limelight andpoint out that everyone there were left totally defenseless.Maybe an armed student or professor might have been able to stop the violentkiller dead in his tracks before more people were killed.Hmmm...the VA Tech answer to handling violent ongoing killingon campus is tohave studentsgo inside andhide hoping that thecrazy gunman does not cometheirway.If he does, then what?

It seems to me thatif armed, two shots to the killer's heart and one to hishead aremore logical thanleaving one's fate in the hands of an armed psycho killer.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

cato wrote:
vrwmiller wrote:
.

Had students and faculty been permitted to carry firearms, the number of casualties could have been dramatically lower.

Yes, and if the criminal shooter had known students and faculty might be armed, this may never have happened. Or been stopped sooner.
Speculation and wishful thinking.

I can see we're headed for the same stultifylingly predictable advocate sense-making of such events:

The Brady Bunch and their ilk will say--"Less (or no)guns might have prevented this massacre!"

The pro-gun people will say--"More guns might have prevented this massacre."

Both responses are totallyfull of shit.
 

hsmith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
1,687
Location
Virginia USA, ,
imported post

Steger is going to have to step down. They have a shooting on campus and don't cancel classes then two hours later an even bigger shooting?

Are you ******* kidding me?
 

unrequited

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
1,407
Location
Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
imported post

HankT wrote:
The Brady Bunch and their ilk will say--"Less (or no) guns might have prevented this massacre!"

The pro-gun people will say--"More guns might have prevented this massacre."

Both responses are totally full of shit.
Wrong... they anti's got their shot and blew it.
 

longwatch

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
4,327
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

Something like this is exactly why I carried a pistol against school policy when I was in college. I would rather risk expulsion than my life.
 

psmartin

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
205
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

mlands wrote:
Instead of being quiet,those that have kids at that campuswho are pro gun should put the"no guns on campus" policyin the limelight andpoint out that everyone there were left totally defenseless.Maybe an armed student or professor might have been able to stop the violentkiller dead in his tracks before more people were killed.Hmmm...the VA Tech answer to handling violent ongoing killingon campus is tohave studentsgo inside andhide hoping that thecrazy gunman does not cometheirway.If he does, then what?

It seems to me thatif armed, two shots to the killer's heart and one to hishead aremore logical thanleaving one's fate in the hands of an armed psycho killer.

I'm mad today -- I don't know how else to express that.

The police advise us to be "good witnessess", businesses advise us to come to work unarmed and "be vigilant", and our colleges have "no guns" policies.

Today 21 bright young students werekilled in a slaughter, and the only "lifelines" allowedwere Cingular, Verizon & TMobile.

Pray for the families today, deal with the realities tomorrow.

Peace.
 

mercutio545

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
469
Location
VA
imported post

Wow, too bad HB2300 didn't pass this year. Some well-armed student might have been able to stop him. :?
 

Reverend73

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
549
Location
Gainesville, VA
imported post

Im probably going to get flamed for this, but oh well. Reports are coming in that the shooter lined up the students and killed them execution style. If this is how it went down, it is entirely unsat that no one attempted to stop this. Under no circumstances would I ever allow someone to put me on my knees and shoot me. I will go down trying my best to take them out. What are we teaching our kids, to hide from danger or confront it. You would think a simple group of 4-5 men could rush this guy and take him out before 32 people are dead and 28 are wounded. :cuss:
 

IanB

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,896
Location
Northern VA
imported post

The president of the school needs to resign for failing to protect the students.
 

sitedzn

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
449
Location
, ,
imported post

Reverend73 wrote:
Im probably going to get flamed for this, but oh well. Reports are coming in that the shooter lined up the students and killed them execution style. If this is how it went down, it is entirely unsat that no one attempted to stop this. Under no circumstances would I ever allow someone to put me on my knees and shoot me. I will go down trying my best to take them out. What are we teaching our kids, to hide from danger or confront it. You would think a simple group of 4-5 men could rush this guy and take him out before 32 people are dead and 28 are wounded. :cuss:
i agree. the only thing i will say is, not knowing which class(es) was attacked, it could have been 17-19 yr old freshmen scared sh*tless - i think that could play a difference in mindset.
 

Jersey Ron

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
192
Location
, New Jersey, USA
imported post

Quote "Im probably going to get flamed for this, but oh well. Reports are coming in that the shooter lined up the students and killed them execution style. If this is how it went down, it is entirely unsat that no one attempted to stop this. Under no circumstances would I ever allow someone to put me on my knees and shoot me. I will go down trying my best to take them out. What are we teaching our kids, to hide from danger or confront it. You would think a simple group of 4-5 men could rush this guy and take him out before 32 people are dead and 28 are wounded." :cuss:





I second your motion!
 

hsmith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
1,687
Location
Virginia USA, ,
imported post

nakedshoplifter wrote:
The president of the school needs to resign for failing to protect the students.
As a graduate of my VPI I will be calling for this as well.

2 hours of difference between the two. Outrageous.
 
Top