Shooting at Virginia Tech

hsmith · Apr 16, 2007

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From last year:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

DoubleR · Apr 16, 2007

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Ya beat me to it, hsmith.

Reverend73 - No flaming likely from any of us. I thought the same thing and commented to a couple of others in the office about it.

What hsmith said...

Reverend73 · Apr 16, 2007

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sitedzn wrote:

Reverend73 wrote:

Im probably going to get flamed for this, but oh well. Reports are coming in that the shooter lined up the students and killed them execution style. If this is how it went down, it is entirely unsat that no one attempted to stop this. Under no circumstances would I ever allow someone to put me on my knees and shoot me. I will go down trying my best to take them out. What are we teaching our kids, to hide from danger or confront it. You would think a simple group of 4-5 men could rush this guy and take him out before 32 people are dead and 28 are wounded. :cuss:

Click to expand...

i agree. the only thing i will say is, not knowing which class(es) was attacked, it could have been 17-19 yr old freshmen scared sh*tless - i think that could play a difference in mindset.

I would be scared too, but 1 shooter against a classroom full of people. I know we dont know all the details and I realize we are armchair quarterbacking, but it seems to me if folks had acted instead of dying like sheep to the slaughter, the body count could have been much lower. We need to teach our children to act, not cower in fear. I remember that texas legislator telling about how her dad rushed the shooter in the Luby's massacer back in the '90s. He was killed, but had 4 or 5 other men in the luby's that day done the same, maybe not as many people would have been killed. This saddens me greatly...

ChronoSphere · Apr 16, 2007

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You know, there'sa part of me that wants to scream and shout "why the hell do you think these rampaging lunatics always target schools? Because they know there will be no resistance!" and start damning all the "gunfree" laws, but right now and right here is not the time. I know everyone here is of the same mind.

My prayers go to the families and friends of the victims and the victims themselves. May they be the last that has to die before the people realize what a folly those rules are.

Godspeed.

cato · Apr 16, 2007

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sitedzn wrote:
i agree. the only thing i will say is, not knowing which class(es) was attacked, it could have been 17-19 yr old freshmen scared sh*tless - i think that could play a difference in mindset.

17 to 19 years olds make great soldiers! They are capable adults! If someone who is 17-19 hasn't decided what they would do in a violent situation, it's because our culture delays adolescence through perpetual schooling (subservient learning) and they expect someone else to do something. With that attitude, the criminal has all the control.

I'm sad but very mad. It shouldn't take 30 dead to rally the forces of the law-abiding against these laws and policies. It should take only one! But where to start. Should a citizen's group of volunteers form shifts and patrol campuses? Yes! Should we be calling the admin. and politicians? Yes! Should we beat back the anti-self defense press when they use this to disarm more of us? Yes! Yes! and Yes!

There are volunteers on the US boarder making a difference! We can at least do it in our own towns!!!

I'm holding my kids right now and crying. They're young still, but I don't ever want them to be unable to defend themselves, loved ones, friends, co-workers, or a stranger! Ever!

This needs to change! Yesterday!

ProguninTN · Apr 16, 2007

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This is a terrible event.

I wish the best for those affected by it. I should add that I learned of this event while attending my own class. (while disarmed)

ProguninTN

HankT · Apr 16, 2007

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31 murdered plusshooter dead.

CBS News reports the FBI and the ATF believe two handguns were used by the lone gunman at Virginia Tech. He is described as a young Asian male who took his own life. Details soon.

cato · Apr 16, 2007

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hsmith wrote:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

He want's them to "feel safe"?

You all just had sunshine week right? Whats his personal info. I want to send him a letter asking himwhy feeling safe is better that being safe.

Legba · Apr 16, 2007

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I have to agree with HankT - it's speculation to presume to know how things might have happened otherwise with more or fewer guns about. Ultimately, people are responsible for their own conduct (or at least ought to be), and some demented fucker is not going to respond in a rational, predictable manner, according to a pro- or anti- agenda script. Presumably they have armed campus security/police there, and they ultimately couldn't prevent this. A general melee with legally armed people responding with justifiable deadly force might well have created confusion among the responding law enforcement personnel, who might not be blamed for confusing perpetrator from hero in such a situation, with yet more people killed in the crossfire. I don't claim to have any answers - just my two cents.

-ljp

cato · Apr 16, 2007

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Legba wrote:

I have to agree with HankT - it's speculation to presume to know how things might have happened otherwise with more or fewer guns about. Ultimately, people are responsible for their own conduct (or at least ought to be), and some demented fucker is not going to respond in a rational, predictable manner, according to a pro- or anti- agenda script. Presumably they have armed campus security/police there, and they ultimately couldn't prevent this. A general melee with legally armed people responding with justifiable deadly force might well have created confusion among the responding law enforcement personnel, who might not be blamed for confusing perpetrator from hero in such a situation, with yet more people killed in the crossfire. I don't claim to have any answers - just my two cents.

-ljp

Yes it's speculation, now lets get rig of these damn policies!

longwatch · Apr 16, 2007

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This says it all.
http://andrews-dad.blogspot.com/2007/04/imagine-if-students-were-armed-in.html

"Imagine if students were armed

In an editorial dated Sept. 5th, 2006, Larry Hincker Vice President of University Relations from... wait for it... Virginia Tech, replied to an editorial from Bradford Wiles titled "Unarmed and vulnerable," Aug. 31. The last line of Mr. Hinckers editorial states:

Guns don't belong in the classrooms. They never will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same.

Just imagine if students were armed. We no longer need to image what will happen when they are not armed."

gsh341 · Apr 16, 2007

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Reverend73 wrote:

sitedzn wrote:

Reverend73 wrote:

Im probably going to get flamed for this, but oh well. Reports are coming in that the shooter lined up the students and killed them execution style. If this is how it went down, it is entirely unsat that no one attempted to stop this. Under no circumstances would I ever allow someone to put me on my knees and shoot me. I will go down trying my best to take them out. What are we teaching our kids, to hide from danger or confront it. You would think a simple group of 4-5 men could rush this guy and take him out before 32 people are dead and 28 are wounded. :cuss:

Click to expand...

i agree. the only thing i will say is, not knowing which class(es) was attacked, it could have been 17-19 yr old freshmen scared sh*tless - i think that could play a difference in mindset.

Click to expand...

I would be scared too, but 1 shooter against a classroom full of people. I know we don't know all the details and I realize we are armchair quarterbacking, but it seems to me if folks had acted instead of dying like sheep to the slaughter, the body count could have been much lower. We need to teach our children to act, not cower in fear. I remember that Texas legislator telling about how her dad rushed the shooter in the Luby's massacre back in the '90s. He was killed, but had 4 or 5 other men in the Luby's that day done the same, maybe not as many people would have been killed. This saddens me greatly...

In my opinion, that Texas senator's father did the right thing. The 40+ that were killed or wounded at Virginia Tech today did not. Anyone that feels so helpless in the face of fear and ALLOWS themselves to be killed makes my gut turn and my blood boil.

If someone were attacking people with a gun where I was (restaurant, school, mall, etc.) I WOULD FIGHT! Even if I had no firearm or knife on me (rare, but occasionally happens) I WOULD FIGHT! If I had to act alone in a crowd of people, I WOULD FIGHT! If I were alone against a gang of thugs, I WOULD FIGHT!

What have we, as a nation, become that we are afraid to defend ourselves? If we refuse to defend ourselves or others, we deserve what we get.

Lew · Apr 16, 2007

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Came to pay my respects. Sorry, Virginia. This is awful.

Maybe one day they'll listen..

HankT · Apr 16, 2007

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cato wrote:

Legba wrote:

I have to agree with HankT - it's speculation to presume to know how things might have happened otherwise with more or fewer guns about. Ultimately, people are responsible for their own conduct (or at least ought to be), and some demented fucker is not going to respond in a rational, predictable manner, according to a pro- or anti- agenda script. Presumably they have armed campus security/police there, and they ultimately couldn't prevent this. A general melee with legally armed people responding with justifiable deadly force might well have created confusion among the responding law enforcement personnel, who might not be blamed for confusing perpetrator from hero in such a situation, with yet more people killed in the crossfire. I don't claim to have any answers - just my two cents.

-ljp

Click to expand...

Yes it's speculation, now lets get rig of these damn policies!

Get back to reality. Those policies will all get far stricter than anything presently in effect. There is NO chance, none whatsoever, that students will be allowed to carry on this country's universities after this.

What will happen is the biggest increase in school security that has ever been done. Those kids will be walking through metal detectors to get to the jumbo section of Biology 101. And it's all gonna cost tens of billions of dollars.

The problem is not that students weren't armed. That's a possible solution to the problem. One of many potential solutions.

The problem is some murderous assailant with a gun. How did he get the guns? What was his motivation? Was he a legal gun owner?

We better hope this shooter was a foreigner and/or that there is some terrorist angle.

vt357 · Apr 16, 2007

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Legba wrote:

A general melee with legally armed people responding with justifiable deadly force might well have created confusion among the responding law enforcement personnel, who might not be blamed for confusing perpetrator from hero in such a situation, with yet more people killed in the crossfire.

This is the message that the antis always bring up. They always say we shouldn't have a bunch of vigilantes running around with guns hunting down the killer. I have to agree that I don't think we should have that either - that is a job for the police.

But if just ONE student in that class was armed, how many lives could he have saved? What if a large group of UNARMED students had rushed the gunman and overpowered him? It's too late now - we will never know.

It is the mindset of the population that needs to change. People must realize that they are responisble for their own protection. If I was still in school - I would carry every day regardless of policy.

vt357 · Apr 16, 2007

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Here we go again... :banghead::banghead::banghead:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/lapse_of_federa.html

BAN HICAPS! That will solve all mass shootings!

Legba · Apr 16, 2007

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Just for the record, I sell guns - I'm not "anti-". I admitted I didn't have any good answers either, nor do I think anyone else does offhand.

-ljp

hsmith · Apr 16, 2007

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DoubleR wrote:

Ya beat me to it, hsmith.

Reverend73 - No flaming likely from any of us. I thought the same thing and commented to a couple of others in the office about it.

What hsmith said...

Larry Hincker will be getting a NASTY letter from me. NASTY.

ParaWarthog · Apr 16, 2007

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First order of business: My thoughts, prayers, and deep sympathy are extended to the families and friends of the victims.

Second order of business: Can non Va. residents join the VCDL?

There are nearly 250,000,000 firearms in this country. No law, regulation, or policy can ever preclude the choice of a deranged killer.

hsmith · Apr 16, 2007

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vt357 wrote:

Here we go again... :banghead::banghead::banghead:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/lapse_of_federa.html

BAN HICAPS! That will solve all mass shootings!

nothing at all indicating what kind of weapon was used and they are already making judgements.

Shooting at Virginia Tech

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