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Thread: Media is missing a big spin on VTech shooter

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I hate to put this out there but...................

    The VaTech shooter and the Sully Station Police shooter both went to the same High School(Westfield). WTF is in the water. The VT shooter is about 3 years older than Kennedy.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    They both also had psychiatric treatment that didn't solve their mental problem.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    The fact they went to the same HS and most likely, at least 1 year were there at the same time. It doesn't matter a hill of beans IMO. But this is the kind of thing the media would blow way out of proportion. I guess once they figure it out the HS Principal will be under fire for not doing something.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VA - I hear ya man. I'm thinking about putting out buckets in the yard so my kids don't get contaminated.

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    More interesting would be whether they were both treated at the same psychiatric facility. And did they share the same doctor/counsellor. Same high school = live in the same district = decent chance they were. Whoever it was/were didn't cure them or handle their problem. And then let them loose on society.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    More interesting would be whether they were both treated at the same psychiatric facility. And did they share the same doctor/counsellor. Same high school = live in the same district = decent chance they were. Whoever it was/were didn't cure them or handle their problem. And then let them loose on society.
    The gun laws worked as they "should" have in the matter of him getting a firearm. It appears the facility he was at didn't report his condition correctly, thus making the background check moot.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    IIRC The Sully Station nut was treated in Montgomery County, MD. The VT nut was treated down there.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.

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    It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Excellent point Tex!!!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I understand your point apjonas. I guess my feeling is once the person goes from an individual needing mental health treatment to a person that kills innocent people they are in a different category. I can empathise with somone needing treament but it's much harder to once they cross that 'line' of a killing spree.

    Also, I don't think it would be 'useful', I think it would be PC.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    hsmith wrote:
    The gun laws worked as they "should" have in the matter of him getting a firearm.
    This point is both true and a powerful argument for changing the system. The current system was shown to be broken by a single 23 year old at VTU on Monday. The performance of the system is not acceptable anymore. It's probably time to change it.

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    TEX1N wrote:
    I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
    Just imagine if Kennedy hit a place where the people were not allowed to be armed..... the body count would have been greater. He picked a place wheremost were armed and able to fight back.

    If some of the students had been armed.... they would have had the power to stop him.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    TEX1N wrote:
    I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
    Just imagine if Kennedy hit a place where the people were not allowed to be armed..... the body count would have been greater. He picked a place wheremost were armed and able to fight back.

    If some of the students had been armed.... they would have had the power to stop him.
    Excellent insights, both!

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    TEX1N wrote:
    I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
    I came to the same realization this morning. Great minds think alike.

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    apjonas wrote:
    It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.
    I think here they both did seek mental health assistance. The problem was that the treatments didn't work. I'm focusing more on the profession that asserts itself to be expert on the subject, yet doesn't seem to be able to cure orsolve. Ever notice the lack ofthose two terms in connection with those professions? Lots and lots of"treat." But no "cure" or "solve."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    apjonas wrote:
    It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.

    Since this seems to be apjonas's favorite subject i would like an explanation as to this statement from another post:


    apjonas wrote:

    LEO229 wrote: Kobayashi Maru at that point.

    Isn't he the right fielder for the Seattle Mariners?
    Not trying to flame anybody but hypocrisy just has to be pointed out .I also really want to know this individuals thoughts since they continue to bring them up.

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    One point missed by the media is that this guy started a fire in a dorm . If VT had prosecuted him and a felony conviction had resulted , no transfer of a gun at a FFL dealer . Hell , the VSP would have been automatically dispatched when the NICS went through . He might have been behind bars for an illegal attempt to purchase .

    Yes , he could have tried to buy illegally but as a quiet loner trying to buy from criminals they would have thought him to be a "5-O snitch" . The criminals might have unwittingly prevented it by "capping" him .

    Just a theory but plausible........

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    casullshooter wrote:
    One point missed by the media is that this guy started a fire in a dorm.
    Do you have a link for the arson story?

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    longwatch wrote:
    TEX1N wrote:
    I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
    I came to the same realization this morning. Great minds think alike.
    And us mediocre ones just have to wait for the great ones to do all the thinking. Well, better second-string than nothing. I need a few more of these: !
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I have seen the reference to starting a fire within other stories but not much has been made of it . He was probably sent to counseling or "Anger Management"....

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    67GT390FB wrote:
    apjonas wrote:
    It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.


    Since this seems to be apjonas's favorite subject i would like an explanation as to this statement from another post:
    What is my favorite subject? mental health? heart attacks? firearms? racists? "This" is not really apparent.


    apjonas wrote:
    LEO229 wrote: Kobayashi Maru at that point.

    Isn't he the right fielder for the Seattle Mariners?
    Not trying to flame anybody but hypocrisy just has to be pointed out .I also really want to know this individuals thoughts since they continue to bring them up.
    What's your hangup? "Kobayashi Maru" apparently is a reference to Star Trek. Not everybody gets it. I had a Japanese roommate named Kobayashi. There are several MLB players from Japan. It's a joke. Do you have a point? Where's the hypocrisy? Do you even know what hypocrisy is?

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    Not every use of these terms on this board (and elsewhere) is a reference to some homicidal maniac. To be polite and caring does not make you PC. The last info that I saw was that Cho was an involuntary commit. That should have stopped his firearm purchases (although not necessarily him running amok). I also am concerned that RKBA proponents seem willing to throw anybody with minor family conflicts off the raft as a concession to the anti-gun forces. What's next? Anybody with a traffic ticket? Doesn't that show antisocial behavior? Some day you may be judged mentally unstable simply because you own guns. There is nothing wrong with protecting society from the truly dangerous. We just ought to be more discerning and supportive of those who simply need a little help.

    Citizen wrote:
    apjonas wrote:
    It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.
    I think here they both did seek mental health assistance. The problem was that the treatments didn't work. I'm focusing more on the profession that asserts itself to be expert on the subject, yet doesn't seem to be able to cure orsolve. Ever notice the lack ofthose two terms in connection with those professions? Lots and lots of"treat." But no "cure" or "solve."

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    apjonas, Maybe you should take your complaint to the persons/forum that you reference. I called 2 'homicidal maniacs' a nut. This not 'broad and dumping everybody into the same boat' as you mentioned. Sorry but I don't feel a need to be 'polite and caring' when referring to 2 person's that went on a shooting spree.

    I am not/did not refer to persons being treated for depression, drug/alcohol addiction, personality disorders etc. 'nuts'. It was/is not my intention to disparage anyone that seeks mental health treatment. Again, my reference to 'nuts' were very clearly to 2 person's that went on a shooting spree.

    I also am concerned that RKBA proponents seem willing to throw anybody with minor family conflicts off the raft as a concession to the anti-gun forces.


    You haven't seen that from me, in fact, I haven't seen that anywhere on this forum. Looks to me like you are the one 'dumping' everyone into the same bucket.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Let me clarify. I was not referring to you or anyone else specifically in my first post. It may have been your use of "nut" or "whacko" that prompted me to write but I am making a general statement for future consideration. I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intent. Your use is not an inappropriate moniker for a mass murderer. Casual and indifferent application to the mentally ill or retarded is. I think we are in agreement.

    VAopencarry wrote:
    apjonas, Maybe you should take your complaint to the persons/forum that you reference. I called 2 'homicidal maniacs' a nut. This not 'broad and dumping everybody into the same boat' as you mentioned. Sorry but I don't feel a need to be 'polite and caring' when referring to 2 person's that went on a shooting spree.

    I am not/did not refer to persons being treated for depression, drug/alcohol addiction, personality disorders etc. 'nuts'. It was/is not my intention to disparage anyone that seeks mental health treatment. Again, my reference to 'nuts' were very clearly to 2 person's that went on a shooting spree.

    I also am concerned that RKBA proponents seem willing to throw anybody with minor family conflicts off the raft as a concession to the anti-gun forces.


    You haven't seen that from me, in fact, I haven't seen that anywhere on this forum. Looks to me like you are the one 'dumping' everyone into the same bucket.

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