• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Media is missing a big spin on VTech shooter

VAopencarry

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
2,151
Location
Berryville-ish, VA
imported post

I hate to put this out there but...................

The VaTech shooter and the Sully Station Police shooter both went to the same High School(Westfield). WTF is in the water. The VT shooter is about 3 years older than Kennedy.
 

VAopencarry

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
2,151
Location
Berryville-ish, VA
imported post

The fact they went to the same HS and most likely, at least 1 year were there at the same time. It doesn't matter a hill of beans IMO. But this is the kind of thing the media would blow way out of proportion. I guess once they figure it out the HS Principal will be under fire for not doing something.:banghead:
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

More interesting would be whether they were both treated at the same psychiatric facility. And did they share the same doctor/counsellor. Same high school = live in the same district = decent chance they were. Whoever it was/were didn't cure them or handle their problem. And then let them loose on society.
 

hsmith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
1,687
Location
Virginia USA, ,
imported post

Citizen wrote:
More interesting would be whether they were both treated at the same psychiatric facility. And did they share the same doctor/counsellor. Same high school = live in the same district = decent chance they were. Whoever it was/were didn't cure them or handle their problem. And then let them loose on society.
The gun laws worked as they "should" have in the matter of him getting a firearm. It appears the facility he was at didn't report his condition correctly, thus making the background check moot.
 

TEX1N

Regular Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
842
Location
Northern VA, Virginia, USA
imported post

I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
 

apjonas

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
1,157
Location
, ,
imported post

It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.
 

VAopencarry

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
2,151
Location
Berryville-ish, VA
imported post

I understand your point apjonas. I guess my feeling is once the person goes from an individual needing mental health treatment to a person that kills innocent people they are in a different category. I can empathise with somone needing treament but it's much harder to once they cross that 'line' of a killing spree.

Also, I don't think it would be 'useful', I think it would be PC.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

hsmith wrote:
The gun laws worked as they "should" have in the matter of him getting a firearm.
This point is both true and a powerful argument for changing the system. The current system was shown to be broken by a single 23 year old at VTU on Monday. The performance of the system is not acceptable anymore. It's probably time to change it.
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

TEX1N wrote:
I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.

Just imagine if Kennedy hit a place where the people were not allowed to be armed..... the body count would have been greater. He picked a place wheremost were armed and able to fight back.

If some of the students had been armed.... they would have had the power to stop him.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
TEX1N wrote:
I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.

Just imagine if Kennedy hit a place where the people were not allowed to be armed..... the body count would have been greater. He picked a place wheremost were armed and able to fight back.

If some of the students had been armed.... they would have had the power to stop him.
Excellent insights, both!
 

longwatch

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
4,327
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

TEX1N wrote:
I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
I came to the same realization this morning. Great minds think alike.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

apjonas wrote:
It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.

I think here they both did seek mental health assistance. The problem was that the treatments didn't work. I'm focusing more on the profession that asserts itself to be expert on the subject, yet doesn't seem to be able to cure orsolve. Ever notice the lack ofthose two terms in connection with those professions? Lots and lots of"treat." But no "cure" or "solve."
 

67GT390FB

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
860
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

apjonas wrote:
It would be useful to stop using terms such as "nut" and "whacko." I would guess that many more people would seek some level of mental health assistance if our society would stop stigmatizing those who are afflicted. The range of conditions in the mental health field is very broad and dumping everybody into the same bucket is as silly as saying indigestion is the same as a heart attack. I once heard a psychologist state that given enough time, he could probably shoehorn everybody into a category of mental illness. People that carry firearms ought to have a more enlightened and mature attitude. We don't want racists or antisemites. Don't be a bigot of a different stripe.


Since this seems to be apjonas's favorite subject i would like an explanation as to this statement from another post:


apjonas wrote:

LEO229 wrote: Kobayashi Maru at that point.

Isn't he the right fielder for the Seattle Mariners?
Not trying to flame anybody but hypocrisy just has to be pointed out .I also really want to know this individuals thoughts since they continue to bring them up.
 

casullshooter

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
490
Location
Bristow, Virginia, USA
imported post

One point missed by the media is that this guy started a fire in a dorm . If VT had prosecuted him and a felony conviction had resulted , no transfer of a gun at a FFL dealer . Hell , the VSP would have been automatically dispatched when the NICS went through . He might have been behind bars for an illegal attempt to purchase .

Yes , he could have tried to buy illegally but as a quiet loner trying to buy from criminals they would have thought him to be a "5-O snitch" . The criminals might have unwittingly prevented it by "capping" him .

Just a theory but plausible........
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

longwatch wrote:
TEX1N wrote:
I think there is another very important comparison to be made. The Sully shooter was much better armed than the VT shooter, however he was still one able to kill two people. Why? Because he chose an armed population as his target. The VT shooter chose and unarmed population and was allowed to have his way.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but this is a very useful argument to use against those calling for more gun control.
I came to the same realization this morning. Great minds think alike.
And us mediocre ones just have to wait for the great ones to do all the thinking.:lol: Well, better second-string than nothing. I need a few more of these: :idea:!
 
Top