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Thread: carry on campus

  1. #1
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    Can anyone supply a list of Universitys that allow carry, either concealed or open, for faculty and or students? Or point me to a good resource?

    Thanks


    Edit: Looking for colleges nationwide not just Virginia.

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    You may have to check with each campus individually. May have rules on their websites.

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    My question is this: Why is it that universities, supposedly bastions of enlightment and freedom, are allowed to deprive anyone of their rights? Nobody allows me to go armed, I do it because it is my right.

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    False sense of security I guess. Which it isn't really there.

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    glocknroll wrote:
    My question is this: Why is it that universities, supposedly bastions of enlightment and freedom, are allowed to deprive anyone of their rights? Nobody allows me to go armed, I do it because it is my right.
    More generally it is the state legislature that prohibits weapons on all manner of school grounds. Utah U is the best example, wanting to be a disarmed victims zone but being overridden by the State. Or Wisconsin where the state bars any carry by a mere citizen (de facto).

    The bastions of enlightenment and freedom let the federal dollars dog in and with it came the federal fleas - loss of freedom.

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    It's an individual campus thing in VA, the exception being VCU which makes carry illegal per the VA Adminstrative Code.(8VAC90-10-50) Carry by citizens on college campus is ok, see AG opinion. They can ban carry by students and employees via 'policy'.

    glocknroll, they are bastions of far left thinking, that's why. Half of academia became prof's because they want to brainwash the young to their way of thinking.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    It's an individual campus thing in VA, the exception being VCU which makes carry illegal per the VA Adminstrative Code.(8VAC90-10-50) Carry by citizens on college campus is ok, see AG opinion. They can ban carry by students and employees via 'policy'.

    glocknroll, they are bastions of far left thinking, that's why. Half of academia became prof's because they want to brainwash the young to their way of thinking.
    It's important to note that if you're a student at one of the public universities that bans firearms, it is still not illegal for you to carry (assuming that you have a permit or are OC'ing). However the school can take whatever disciplinary action they want to against you.

    The news agencies have been spreading the erroneous info that it is illegal to bring a firearm onto a VA public university. Just not so.

    IANAL.

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    I realize that it is state legislatures that set the rules for state institutions. But the question remains: Why do we, as a people, allow this to happen? If a state legislature voted to deny college students their right of religious freedom,or their right of free speech, or their right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, or their right to not be discriminated against due to their ethnicity or sex, all hell would break loose. Public protest. Marches in the streets. Acts of civil disobedience.

    We, as gun owners, are simply too passive. We need to continue to state our position as one of civil rights. These are state institutions, owned and supported by the people. We, the people, are the government of this country. If one chooses to attend a private college, one which receives no federal funds, then one has to follow the rules of the owner of that private property. If any institution receives public funds, then it should be required to recognize the constitutional rights of its students.

    At some point, we are going to have stop requesting that our rights be recognized, and demand that they are. Remember the MillionMan March? Or the Million Mom March? How do you think the government would react if 4 million NRA members descended on Washington, in peaceful protest. Not every gun owner is an NRA member. I do not always agree with the positions taken by the NRA. But what aboutGOA?VCDL?JPFO?

    For the record, let me state this: I do not now, nor have I ever, advocated the violent overthrow of any legally elected government, at the local, state, or national level. What I do advocate is legal, peaceful protest, in open demand of the recognition of our God given, constitutionally delineated rights.

    I have heard the argument before that emotional positions can't be changed by stating the facts. I do believe public opinion can be changed through public debate.

    50 years ago, how many would have dreamed that laws establishing that no racial, religious, or gender discrimination would be so rigidly enforced? Who would have dreamed that two people of the same sex would legally be allowed to call themselves married? (See how I weasled around that one? I, personally cannot see two persons of the same sex as "married". I do however believe in equal protection under the law. If you want to marry a damn tree it doesn't change my marriage to my wife one iota.)

    I am just a simple working stiff. I don't know how to bring about the things I advocate. I just want to establish a position, in the hope that better men than I can possibly find a way to do what needs to be done. I would gladly work for change, I just don't know how, other than to perhaps start other people thinking.



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    glocknroll wrote:
    My question is this: Why is it that universities, supposedly bastions of enlightment and freedom, are allowed to deprive anyone of their rights? Nobody allows me to go armed, I do it because it is my right.
    More generally it is the state legislature that prohibits weapons on all manner of school grounds. Utah U is the best example, wanting to be a disarmed victims zone but being overridden by the State. Or Wisconsin where the state bars any carry by a mere citizen (de facto).

    The bastions of enlightenment and freedom let the federal dollars dog in and with it came the federal fleas - loss of freedom.
    This concerning the State of Utah, which may be different to other states.

    Utah Code -- Title 76 -- Chapter 10 -- Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, Welfare, and Morals
    Updated: 18 December 2006


    76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
    (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
    (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
    (3) This section does not apply if:
    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
    (d) the possession is:
    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
    (iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
    (4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.


    Amended by Chapter 203, 2003 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C035.ZIP 2,551 Bytes



    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


    Amended by Chapter 202, 2003 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C050.ZIP 2,284 Bytes


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    glocknroll, I agree with you sentiments. The VCDL has been on this over the past few years, but the bills keep getting defeated in subcommittee at the General Assembly.

    Ironically VA Tech was one of the strongest opponents to the bill:

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658
    Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
    Unfortunately feeling safe didn't have any impact on actually being safe.

    Hopefully next year we will be able to get the type of support that you are talking about and push a college carry bill though the GA. Although it will take work on the part of gun owners and other concerned citizens to make our voices heard over that of the bureaucratic universities.

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    It's an individual campus thing in VA, the exception being VCU which makes carry illegal per the VA Adminstrative Code.(8VAC90-10-50) Carry by citizens on college campus is ok, see AG opinion. They can ban carry by students and employees via 'policy'.

    glocknroll, they are bastions of far left thinking, that's why. Half of academia became prof's because they want to brainwash the young to their way of thinking.
    Vaopencarry, please do not make unfounded accusations. Most professors become professors because they want to do research and publish and teach. Most professors at UF spend half their time doing research and trying to get published, the other half teaching. I would expect most land-grant research universities such as UF and VT are similar in that respect.

    Not to mention that I would highly doubt that professors in most disciplines are going to have much of an opportunity to "brainwash" students within the course of their teaching duties. I don't see my Stats professor beginning a rant on gun control in class anytime soon.

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    When I was taking classes for my MS and for my PhD, I often carried to class.

    I could have been against school policy; I never checked.

    I know it was legal. In fact, in interviewing with the Circuit Court judge to get the permit, I mentioned that one of the reasons I was getting the permit was to carry to class.



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    In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

    what you think guys?

    swat

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    swatpro911 wrote:
    In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

    what you think guys?

    swat
    Uh, the gun is strapped to your hip, ankle, armpit, etc. Where is it going to go?

    Why are people who are smart enough to get into universities now considered so dumb that they can't be trusted with their own self defense?

    LoveMyCountry

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    swatpro911 wrote:
    In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

    what you think guys?

    swat
    I will have to disagree with you.

    As with any situation like OC and CC... the person has to know their own limitations.

    If your gun is on you it cannot be stolen from you, your locker, or your car.

    If you need tosecure ityou can lock it in your car but I suggest you use a cable lock thru the gun to a part of the car. This prevents people from walking away with it without some work.

    I would also suggest a handgun safe from this company... http://www.handgunsafe.com/

    This are well made and bolt down. I own two and love them.

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    Wooley wrote:
    Right. If you can get a CHP, then why does it matter if you're a student or not? I didn't know there was a difference between my CHP and a student CHP.

    I do agree also with Swat's thinking on training...an untrained shooter is more dangerous than an unarmed citizen IMO.
    We would all prefer that those carrying handguns would get some kind of training, but you are missing the point. Going armed is a right, not a privilege. Do you have to get some kind of government approved training to carry your Bible to class? Do you have to get training to speak freely in public, without fearof reprisal from the govt? Is training required to be free from unreasonable search and seizure? Every time we allow any prior restraint on our rights, we move a little closer to losing them. If we allow prior restraint, then there will slowly but surely be more and more restraint on our rights. Training? What kind of training? Is a 3 hour safety course enough? Is a 40 hour DCJS security officer course enough? What about only those that have undergone military basic training? That is sliding down the proverbial "slippery slope", and allowing any prior restraint is just greasing the sled. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Any prior restraint on the carrying of arms is an infringement. Don't give the bastards any ammunition against us. Don't fall for the "reasonable gun control" ********.

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    Wooley wrote:
    Let me clarify then. I don't think training should be a requirement to carry. You should be able to carry reguardless of training you recieve. You should take it upon yourself to be combat accurate with the weapon you exercise your rights with. Its your right to carry, its your responsibility to know what you're doing. That said, I'm not in favor of regulating training or making it a requirement...just my opinion that you should educate yourself.

    I agree.

    Hopefully, those that do carry in any manner know when to use their weapon. For those that are not that confident in the decision making process can elect to attend some training to make them more knowledgeable so they can make the right decision.

    I see some asking "what if" scenarios here and that is good. It is nice that I have some expert knowledge and can help in this area.


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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    Let me clarify then. I don't think training should be a requirement to carry. You should be able to carry reguardless of training you recieve. You should take it upon yourself to be combat accurate with the weapon you exercise your rights with. Its your right to carry, its your responsibility to know what you're doing. That said, I'm not in favor of regulating training or making it a requirement...just my opinion that you should educate yourself.

    I agree.

    Hopefully, those that do carry in any manner know when to use their weapon. For those that are not that confident in the decision making process can elect to attend some training to make them more knowledgeable so they can make the right decision.

    I see some asking "what if" scenarios here and that is good. It is nice that I have some expert knowledge and can help in this area.
    I think we are all on the same page. I have had training starting when I was a kid. My father was an IPSC range officer and he started my training many moons ago. I've also had infantry training where I qualified with the 1911, and taken the the DCJS handgun course a few times, even though I haven't worked security in years.I just don't want to give the anti's any ammo against us. Local newspaper columnist's monitor this forum, and I would hate to see a quote from one of us used against us in the Daily Pravda.

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    glocknroll wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    Let me clarify then. I don't think training should be a requirement to carry. You should be able to carry reguardless of training you recieve. You should take it upon yourself to be combat accurate with the weapon you exercise your rights with. Its your right to carry, its your responsibility to know what you're doing. That said, I'm not in favor of regulating training or making it a requirement...just my opinion that you should educate yourself.

    I agree.

    Hopefully, those that do carry in any manner know when to use their weapon. For those that are not that confident in the decision making process can elect to attend some training to make them more knowledgeable so they can make the right decision.

    I see some asking "what if" scenarios here and that is good. It is nice that I have some expert knowledge and can help in this area.
    I think we are all on the same page. I have had training starting when I was a kid. My father was an IPSC range officer and he started my training many moons ago. I've also had infantry training where I qualified with the 1911, and taken the the DCJS handgun course a few times, even though I haven't worked security in years.I just don't want to give the anti's any ammo against us. Local newspaper columnist's monitor this forum, and I would hate to see a quote from one of us used against us in the Daily Pravda.
    Damn misplaced apostrophes get me every time.

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    Wooley wrote:
    I hear what you're saying, and while my thinking is right my wording is sometimes wrong. Please correct again in the future eh.

    About the daily rag watching us; I'm sure they could quote one of us, but in this faceless and nameless internet humdinger, wouldn't it be easy to come here and say something wrong, then point it out? Does internet message board equal reliable source? Don't want to push the issue, just curious.
    Yes. it would be easy for them to use an "agent provocateur" in our midst. The Daily Press (owned by Chicago Tribune) has already had quotes this week from this forum, and the VCDL web site regarding the VT shootings. No, the Internet is definitely not a reliable source, but when has the truth stopped the liberal media from promoting their agenda?

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    glocknroll wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    I hear what you're saying, and while my thinking is right my wording is sometimes wrong. Please correct again in the future eh.

    About the daily rag watching us; I'm sure they could quote one of us, but in this faceless and nameless internet humdinger, wouldn't it be easy to come here and say something wrong, then point it out? Does internet message board equal reliable source? Don't want to push the issue, just curious.
    Yes. it would be easy for them to use an "agent provocateur" in our midst. The Daily Press (owned by Chicago Tribune) has already had quotes this week from this forum, and the VCDL web site regarding the VT shootings. No, the Internet is definitely not a reliable source, but when has the truth stopped the liberal media from promoting their agenda?
    See Daily Press, 19 April 2007, op-ed page. Heading: Pointing Fingers. VCDL, Gun Owners of America, and Opencarry.org are all cited. Granted, they were criticizing the anti's too, saying we were all using the shootings to promote our agenda saying that we all "simply lacked decency" by doing so. But direct quotes wer taken directly off of this site. Honestly, this was my first real tip-off that they were monitoring. I had never really thought about it before. Maybe I need to ratchet up my awareness/paranoia a bit.

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    swatpro911 wrote:
    In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

    what you think guys?

    swat
    Uh, the gun is strapped to your hip, ankle, armpit, etc. Where is it going to go?

    Why are people who are smart enough to get into universities now considered so dumb that they can't be trusted with their own self defense?

    LoveMyCountry
    Well it can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the gun on him. Especially minorities are the prime target these days for terror. So to balance out the terror would be to leave it in the locker and take it with u when u leave the campus. If you live in the campus it ok to have it on u just dont bring it to class, cafeteria, bathroom, hallways, gym etc. There should be no violence in first place in learning environment. When fight breaks out trust me u will go for your weapon and shoot and could accidently hit someone or maybe your professor. "leap before you jump"

    swat


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    Wooley wrote:
    Right. If you can get a CHP, then why does it matter if you're a student or not? I didn't know there was a difference between my CHP and a student CHP.

    I do agree also with Swat's thinking on training...an untrained shooter is more dangerous than an unarmed citizen I
    Students need to show that they possess the CHP but again its a risk for the whole learning environment. Because of poor trained individual and the reaction to situation capabilities are essential to know before that student can be allowed to enter the classroom first of all. Who knows if he/she is going to commit mass murder?

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    swatpro911 wrote:
    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    swatpro911 wrote:
    In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

    what you think guys?

    swat
    Uh, the gun is strapped to your hip, ankle, armpit, etc. Where is it going to go?

    Why are people who are smart enough to get into universities now considered so dumb that they can't be trusted with their own self defense?

    LoveMyCountry
    Well it can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the gun on him. Especially minorities are the prime target these days for terror. So to balance out the terror would be to leave it in the locker and take it with u when u leave the campus. If you live in the campus it ok to have it on u just dont bring it to class, cafeteria, bathroom, hallways, gym etc. There should be no violence in first place in learning environment. When fight breaks out trust me u will go for your weapon and shoot and could accidently hit someone or maybe your professor. "leap before you jump"

    swat
    Swatpro, you apparently do not believe in the right to keep and bear arms. How about this? "It can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the Bible on him." How in the hell can you "balance out the terror" by leaving your weapon locked away somewhere? The students at VT were murdered in their classroom. What good would a weapon locked away in a locker have done any of them? You are right about one thing, there should be no violence in the first place in a learning environment. The problem is, what there should be and what there is are 2 different things. There should be no crime in society in the first place. Does that mean we should do away with police departments? Hell, no. Hey, cops shoot people by accident, too. Maybe they should stop carrying guns (hope you can smell the sarcasm). If people are made uncomfortable by the free exercise of my constitutional rights, tough ****. They have a right to be uncomfortable. They have a right to complain. They have a right to leave places they are uncomfortable. But they do not have a right to deprive me of the means to defend myself, my family, or other innocents. I have a right to life. I have a right to preserve that life. And no law will ever deprive me of the right to defend my loved ones from evil. "From my cold, deadhands." Perhaps those of you in the People's Republik of Kalifornia should secede from the Union, and then you won't have to honor the Constitution. Just don't come looking for foreign aid.

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