carry on campus

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LEO 229 wrote:

Wooley wrote:

Let me clarify then. I don't think training should be a requirement to carry. You should be able to carry reguardless of training you recieve. You should take it upon yourself to be combat accurate with the weapon you exercise your rights with. Its your right to carry, its your responsibility to know what you're doing. That said, I'm not in favor of regulating training or making it a requirement...just my opinion that you should educate yourself.

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I agree.

Hopefully, those that do carry in any manner know when to use their weapon. For those that are not that confident in the decision making process can elect to attend some training to make them more knowledgeable so they can make the right decision.

I see some asking "what if" scenarios here and that is good. It is nice that I have some expert knowledge and can help in this area.

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I think we are all on the same page. I have had training starting when I was a kid. My father was an IPSC range officer and he started my training many moons ago. I've also had infantry training where I qualified with the 1911, and taken the the DCJS handgun course a few times, even though I haven't worked security in years.I just don't want to give the anti's any ammo against us. Local newspaper columnist's monitor this forum, and I would hate to see a quote from one of us used against us in the Daily Pravda.

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I hear what you're saying, and while my thinking is right my wording is sometimes wrong. Please correct again in the future eh.

About the daily rag watching us; I'm sure they could quote one of us, but in this faceless and nameless internet humdinger, wouldn't it be easy to come here and say something wrong, then point it out? Does internet message board equal reliable source? Don't want to push the issue, just curious.

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glocknroll wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Wooley wrote:

Let me clarify then. I don't think training should be a requirement to carry. You should be able to carry reguardless of training you recieve. You should take it upon yourself to be combat accurate with the weapon you exercise your rights with. Its your right to carry, its your responsibility to know what you're doing. That said, I'm not in favor of regulating training or making it a requirement...just my opinion that you should educate yourself.

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I agree.

Hopefully, those that do carry in any manner know when to use their weapon. For those that are not that confident in the decision making process can elect to attend some training to make them more knowledgeable so they can make the right decision.

I see some asking "what if" scenarios here and that is good. It is nice that I have some expert knowledge and can help in this area.

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I think we are all on the same page. I have had training starting when I was a kid. My father was an IPSC range officer and he started my training many moons ago. I've also had infantry training where I qualified with the 1911, and taken the the DCJS handgun course a few times, even though I haven't worked security in years.I just don't want to give the anti's any ammo against us. Local newspaper columnist's monitor this forum, and I would hate to see a quote from one of us used against us in the Daily Pravda.

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Damn misplaced apostrophes get me every time.

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Wooley wrote:

I hear what you're saying, and while my thinking is right my wording is sometimes wrong. Please correct again in the future eh.

About the daily rag watching us; I'm sure they could quote one of us, but in this faceless and nameless internet humdinger, wouldn't it be easy to come here and say something wrong, then point it out? Does internet message board equal reliable source? Don't want to push the issue, just curious.

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Yes. it would be easy for them to use an "agent provocateur" in our midst. The Daily Press (owned by Chicago Tribune) has already had quotes this week from this forum, and the VCDL web site regarding the VT shootings. No, the Internet is definitely not a reliable source, but when has the truth stopped the liberal media from promoting their agenda?

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glocknroll wrote:

Wooley wrote:

I hear what you're saying, and while my thinking is right my wording is sometimes wrong. Please correct again in the future eh.

About the daily rag watching us; I'm sure they could quote one of us, but in this faceless and nameless internet humdinger, wouldn't it be easy to come here and say something wrong, then point it out? Does internet message board equal reliable source? Don't want to push the issue, just curious.

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Yes. it would be easy for them to use an "agent provocateur" in our midst. The Daily Press (owned by Chicago Tribune) has already had quotes this week from this forum, and the VCDL web site regarding the VT shootings. No, the Internet is definitely not a reliable source, but when has the truth stopped the liberal media from promoting their agenda?

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See Daily Press, 19 April 2007, op-ed page. Heading: Pointing Fingers. VCDL, Gun Owners of America, and Opencarry.org are all cited. Granted, they were criticizing the anti's too, saying we were all using the shootings to promote our agenda saying that we all "simply lacked decency" by doing so. But direct quotes wer taken directly off of this site. Honestly, this was my first real tip-off that they were monitoring. I had never really thought about it before. Maybe I need to ratchet up my awareness/paranoia a bit.

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LoveMyCountry wrote:

swatpro911 wrote:

In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

what you think guys?

swat

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Uh, the gun is strapped to your hip, ankle, armpit, etc. Where is it going to go?

Why are people who are smart enough to get into universities now considered so dumb that they can't be trusted with their own self defense?

LoveMyCountry

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Well it can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the gun on him. Especially minorities are the prime target these days for terror. So to balance out the terror would be to leave it in the locker and take it with u when u leave the campus. If you live in the campus it ok to have it on u just dont bring it to class, cafeteria, bathroom, hallways, gym etc. There should be no violence in first place in learning environment. When fight breaks out trust me u will go for your weapon and shoot and could accidently hit someone or maybe your professor. "leap before you jump"

swat

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Wooley wrote:

Right. If you can get a CHP, then why does it matter if you're a student or not? I didn't know there was a difference between my CHP and a student CHP.

I do agree also with Swat's thinking on training...an untrained shooter is more dangerous than an unarmed citizen I

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Students need to show that they possess the CHP but again its a risk for the whole learning environment. Because of poor trained individual and the reaction to situation capabilities are essential to know before that student can be allowed to enter the classroom first of all. Who knows if he/she is going to commit mass murder?

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swatpro911 wrote:

LoveMyCountry wrote:

swatpro911 wrote:

In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

what you think guys?

swat

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Uh, the gun is strapped to your hip, ankle, armpit, etc. Where is it going to go?

Why are people who are smart enough to get into universities now considered so dumb that they can't be trusted with their own self defense?

LoveMyCountry

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Well it can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the gun on him. Especially minorities are the prime target these days for terror. So to balance out the terror would be to leave it in the locker and take it with u when u leave the campus. If you live in the campus it ok to have it on u just dont bring it to class, cafeteria, bathroom, hallways, gym etc. There should be no violence in first place in learning environment. When fight breaks out trust me u will go for your weapon and shoot and could accidently hit someone or maybe your professor. "leap before you jump"

swat

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Swatpro, you apparently do not believe in the right to keep and bear arms. How about this? "It can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the Bible on him." How in the hell can you "balance out the terror" by leaving your weapon locked away somewhere? The students at VT were murdered in their classroom. What good would a weapon locked away in a locker have done any of them? You are right about one thing, there should be no violence in the first place in a learning environment. The problem is, what there should be and what there is are 2 different things. There should be no crime in society in the first place. Does that mean we should do away with police departments? Hell, no. Hey, cops shoot people by accident, too. Maybe they should stop carrying guns (hope you can smell the sarcasm). If people are made uncomfortable by the free exercise of my constitutional rights, tough shit. They have a right to be uncomfortable. They have a right to complain. They have a right to leave places they are uncomfortable. But they do not have a right to deprive me of the means to defend myself, my family, or other innocents. I have a right to life. I have a right to preserve that life. And no law will ever deprive me of the right to defend my loved ones from evil. "From my cold, deadhands." Perhaps those of you in the People's Republik of Kalifornia should secede from the Union, and then you won't have to honor the Constitution. Just don't come looking for foreign aid.

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Sorry, swatpro, I can't know for sure that you are from California. I just know that you sound like you are. Don't you get it? A place where only the police have guns is called a POLICE STATE. Even if you could assign a cop to every college classroom, it is still not an excuse to deprive anyone of his or her rights. You, as a police officer, only have as much authority as the people you serve grant you, through their elected representatives. And I'll be damned if I will ever grant you the right to deprive me of my rights.

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Editing myself once again: the state does not have rights. I will never grant the POWER OR AUTHORITY to deprive me of my rights.

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It seems that SwatPro is concerned about students being armed and not knowing what to do or having the ability to "react" to a situation. At least... as I speed read this is what I am gathering.

IMO... I would apply this to everyone and not just students.

However... Once a shooting has begun and the student understands that an armed man is actively shooting students....Fight or Flight comes into play.

If he decides to stay and fight andknows a shooter is nearby,he canuse his own firearm as a way to stop the shooter. Being unarmed.. he has only once choice... Run or be killed.

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swatpro911 wrote:

In my opinion i think its not good idea to let students bring their guns in learning environment. From tactical side, its unsafe, unless you are very adaptable to any situation and know how to react, store, handle, movement etc. Guns may get stolen, mishandled, accidental discharge etc unless you have secured locker in campus where u can store it and get it when u leaving. Guns should not be stored in your vehicle unless you are going somewhere or had to go get something for very short time and period i.c. courthouse, hospital, post office etc.

what you think guys?

swat

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I must disagree. I think it is a good idea to let the students carry firearms into their learning environments. Afterall, they're exercizing a God given right, which no government or authority of the people is permitted to strip away.

If the firearm is properly secured, the chances of it being stolen, mishandled, or accidentally discharged are near non-existent.

The people that you fear will be carrying a firearm are the people that will generally not carry the firearm. The people that do carry firearms take their right very seriously and therefore practice the responsibility necessary to handle that right.

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swatpro911 wrote:

Well it can cause panic and frustration among others when they see someone takes off his jacket or shirt and notices the gun on him. Especially minorities are the prime target these days for terror. So to balance out the terror would be to leave it in the locker and take it with u when u leave the campus. If you live in the campus it ok to have it on u just dont bring it to class, cafeteria, bathroom, hallways, gym etc. There should be no violence in first place in learning environment. When fight breaks out trust me u will go for your weapon and shoot and could accidently hit someone or maybe your professor. "leap before you jump"

swat

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Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe my life becomes less valuable when I step onto a college campus?!?

I agree with you that there should be no violence on campus (or anywhere for that matter), but unfortunately there IS violence on college campuses. Where were you on April 16th?

And your solution is that I - a veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps, holder of multiple CHP's, and most importantly a law-abiding citizen - should not have the means to protect myself at my college because it might scare someone? Well I've got news for you, the time for feeling safe on college campuses is over. It's time that we actually start being safe, even it if hurts a few feelings.

A lot of VT students had left their guns with the VT Police in order to follow VT's policy, and that didn't do them much good. What if they had their guns and got into a gun fight with the shooter? Could innocent people have been hurt? Yes. But I believe that is a better option than having 32 students executed because people like you don't want to get their feelings hurt.

Those students deserved a chance. I deserve a chance. You deserve a chance.

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Well said, Tex1n.