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Thread: Open Carry University

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    We should have the choice to send our children to an institution where they have the right to defend themselves.

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    Hang on League - Here it comes...

    http://concealedcampus.org/
    4/19/07 - Local Student Group on CNN tomorrow

    NEW UPDATE: (DATE CHANGE) The Second Amendment Club from the University of Utah will appear on CNN's Paula Zahn NOW tommorrow Monday, April 23th at 8ET, 5PT. The State Supreme Court of Utah has upheld the rights of students to carry on college campuses in Utah. Our friends at the Univ. of Utah will show the world that fears of students carrying on campus are unfounded and students in many states already carry responsibly on their campuses every day.
    This is an interesting concept. I did notice that the links on the menu bar do not work. Maybe because it is so new. We'll see how it goes.

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    Yes, I like.

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    You really think having a bunch of armed 21 years olds in a college setting is a good thing?

    We will have 10 Virginia Tech's a year...

    Let me guess, some of youguys still think the world is flat.

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    willyg wrote:
    You really think having a bunch of armed 21 years olds in a college setting is a good thing?

    We will have 10 Virginia Tech's a year...

    Let me guess, some of youguys still think the world is flat.

    its not?

    we are not ignorant, nor stupid, and i cant speak for everyone on this forum but i do not appreciate being called ignorant, and i usually only give one warning to poeple stupid enough to say that to my face. many of the people on this forum are here to share knowledge and learn the law, doesn't seem like a bunch of " ignorant people" so please take your crap somewhere else,

    did anyone else read his other post where we were all called ignorant? or is it just me?


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    willyg wrote:
    You really think having a bunch of armed 21 years olds in a college setting is a good thing?

    We will have 10 Virginia Tech's a year...

    Let me guess, some of youguys still think the world is flat.
    willy, if you intend to stick around and learn something (which would be great in our minds) please explain HOW you believe that will happen.

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    willyg wrote:
    You really think having a bunch of armed 21 years olds in a college setting is a good thing?

    We will have 10 Virginia Tech's a year...

    Let me guess, some of youguys still think the world is flat.
    Willy, give me a break - any student "can" carry to class now - we want the good guys to be able to carry without fear of nanny state college tribunals suspending them from school.

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    willyg wrote:
    You really think having a bunch of armed 21 years olds in a college setting is a good thing?

    We will have 10 Virginia Tech's a year...

    Let me guess, some of youguys still think the world is flat.
    Eighteen years old would be better.

    And if you equate the freedom to keep and bear arms with a belief that the earth is flat, then you are abysmally stupid.

    But I suspect you're not actually that stupid. I suspect that you've just been indoctrinated into ignorance, and you're not able to piece together a rational argument. The best you can do is gasp in shock at the thought of someone going armed, and in this state of emotional unrest you react by accusing us of believing the earth is flat.

    Yes, I understand you completely.

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    LeagueOf1291 wrote:
    Eighteen years old would be better. And if you equate the freedom to keep and bear arms with a belief that the earth is flat, then you are abysmally stupid. But I suspect you're not actually that stupid. I suspect that you've just been indoctrinated into ignorance, and you're not able to piece together a rational argument. The best you can do is gasp in shock at the thought of someone going armed, and in this state of emotional unrest you react by accusing us of believing the earth is flat. Yes, I understand you completely.
    Nice. Indoctrinated is the correct word. The sad part is the majority of our "higher" education institutions are the one's doing the indoctrinating. In some case the public schools...that's why you teach them right, teach them young, before some loony toon grade 6 teacher starts preaching how guns are bad, only evil comes from guns. My son hated me for confronting her, but...she needed to be set straight. As it turned out she didn't say guns were evil, just lead to that myth. That was my issue. She knows where I stand now and I havent' heard anything from my daughter this year regarding guns. Global warming is another story though.

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    Clearly I have some very very different opinions,thoughts, beliefsthan the majority of you.

    Like everyone I think what happened at V-Tech was terrible.

    Thatbeing said, I do not think the solution to the V-Tech'sof the world is an institution where they have the right to defend themselves.Like many of you I went away to college. School I went to was in Western PA, probably 1/10 the size ofV-Tech. The though of having armed 18-22 year olds is plain scary.

    Let me ask all of you a simple question. How mature were you in college? Personally I think I was about average...which for someone in that age, someone in that environment (looking back) is pretty pathetic.

    Unlike some of you I supposeI DO NOT believe a gun would make me safer - quite the contrary. Although you do not see it as often now, when I flew after Sept 11thI would seesoliders with guns as big as my leg...that never for a moment made (or makes) me feel safer!

    Also, I live in Northern NJ, right across the river from Manhatten and commute tothe cityevery day for work. The way I get there is called the PATH - basically a train from NJ to NY. Every now and again you will see a ton of security around. A bombing overseas, some kind of threat, near Sept 11th, etc, etc. When those things happen you see cops withtheir full "armor" and guns everywhere. IDO NOT feel more secure by the show of force.

    I know the way it works in this country. Pro-gun folks (you all for lack of a better term) consider gun-control a hot-button voting issue. I am forgun-control,howeverwhenI go to vote, there are several other issueshigher on thepriority listfor me.

    Personally I think the right to own an potentially operate a firearm isnot a right, it is aPRIVLEDGE of mature adults, one that should not betaken or given lightly. Put another way...I think you should have to absolutely jump through hoops. To methe avg college student is not someone whofalls into that category.

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    Personally, I think 'willyg' is too immature to be armed with a firearm and I'm the tyrant. Hell, he's too immature to be allowed near a networked computer.

    If the First Amendment was so infringed as he would the Second Amendment, would we have to read his drivel?

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits (let's Willy out) and guns and the truth. NRA KMA

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    PRIVLEDGE??? Maturity??? Grow up man!! You are worried about education, not maturity. Were you mature enough to drive? Automobiles kill more people than guns.

    Grade 2-Intro to Firearms Safety/2nd Amendment
    Grade 4-Firearms Safety/2nd Amendment and what it means to us.
    Grade 8-Advanced Firearms Safety/Tactical Intro
    Grade 10-Firearms/How to defend the 2nd
    Grade 12-Packing



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    Some of you just don't get it. So you disagree with the fact that only mature people should be entrusted with guns? Not sure what I can say...

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    willyg wrote:


    Some of you just don't get it. So you disagree with the fact that only mature people should be entrusted with guns? Not sure what I can say...
    so are you saying that because i am 18, (college age) i can not be "entrusted" with firearms? you dont get it, its not age that makes a person mature, its the way the person was raised and who they want to be i know 16 year olds that i trust with guns, and i know 40+ year olds, who shouldn't be allowed to make any choices. however its not for me to make the decision nor is it for you, if a person is able to articulate the fact that he his mature, and shows by actions that his is mature, then the person should be able to carry a weapon. i carry one of my guns almost constantly, or have it close by. i do drink on occasion, and if i plan on getting drunk, then the guns get unloaded and put away, if i am having one or two, the it stays on my hip, everyone knows not to even think about touching it because drinking or not, they will have 1, a broken arm, shoulder, and wrist, OR 2, they are dead or dying, i prefer no.1 but........

    the point i am trying to get across is that you CAN NOT base whether or not a person is mature by age.

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    I don't get it. Are you saying that people should not be able to exercise any of their rights until they are mature enough? Who decides maturity? I was probably more immature than you(in college), yet I was perfectly able to responsibly use/own/handle/carry a firearm. I had a hunting rifle and a handgun with me while in school. I hunted with my "college" buddies, I went shooting with my "college" buddies. I'm completly missing how a few immature 18-24 year olds had firearms and none of us ended up in prision, shooting each other, or whatever else it is you feel immature people do with guns.

    Enlighten me.


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    willyg wrote:
    You really think having a bunch of armed 21 years olds in a college setting is a good thing?

    We will have 10 Virginia Tech's a year...

    Let me guess, some of youguys still think the world is flat.
    You really think having a bunch of armed old farts inANY setting is a good thing?

    Self-defense is ALWAYS a GOOD THING.

    How would this sound

    "-Well dear wife...I didn't think i would be a good thing for a "bunch of 21 year olds in a college setting" was a good thing so I was against it. Sorry that Your Daughter/Son is not alive ANYMORE cuz of what I thought instead of a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to be able to defend themselves cuz the BG didn't read the memo "NO GUNS ALLOWED" ."



    "with Great Power comes Great Responsibility"




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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    "with Great Power comes Great Responsibility"

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!

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    I live in Northern NJ, right across the river from Manhatten and commute tothe cityevery day for work
    Heck that's all you had to say, explains a lot. We all know how safe NYC is, being that guns are all but illegal there.

    I will agree that having armed police around do not make me feel safer, nor does it make me safe. That's why I like to arm myself. I am the only one with me 24/7 so I like to provide for my own safety. How do you provide for your safety?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    "Personally I think the right to own an potentially operate a firearm isnot a right, it is aPRIVLEDGE of mature adults, one that should not betaken or given lightly..."

    If you do not believe that the right to keep (own) and bear (operate) arms is a right, then you do not agree with the document upon which this nation was founded. Disagreeing with the laws which govern us is different than disagreeing with the document upon which all these laws were founded. A disagreement with the Bill of Rights is a disagreement with America. It's fine if you have a different opinion, but you can't demand that America itself change.



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    "Unlike some of you I supposeI DO NOT believe a gun would make me safer - quite the contrary."

    If guns don't make you feel safer that is all right. You don't have to carry one. In the end though I don't think you have the right to expect anyone else to defend you with a firearm or any other way if you are unwilling to do so yourself. If you don't value your life enough to protect it why would I want to risk mineon your behalf. Our nation sends soldiers to war and police officers to confront armed criminals when the majorityare unwilling to take the risk.

    That said I believe we still have the responsibility to defend those who may not value their life and liberty the same way we do. It seems that the heaviest burdens always fall on minorities.




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    willyg wrote:
    <snip> The though of having armed 18-22 year olds is plain scary.

    <snip>
    Pay attention now; this is the key to understanding us --- We alreadyhave armed 18-22 year olds in the Universities. Cho is proof of that. That's why I need my gun, so I can defend myself against murderous devils like Cho. The bad guys already have the guns!



    <sigh> At least my children understand this. Since the antisdon't listen to reason, sometimes I think the only way to beat them is to outpopulate them. I've got four now, but I'm thinking I'd be doing us all a favor if I keep going. I still got it.





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    willyg wrote:
    How mature were you in college? Personally I think I was about average...which for someone in that age, someone in that environment (looking back) is pretty pathetic.


    Personally I think the right to own an potentially operate a firearm isnot a right, it is aPRIVLEDGE of mature adults, one that should not betaken or given lightly. Put another way...I think you should have to absolutely jump through hoops. To methe avg college student is not someone whofalls into that category.

    A privilege, much like, say, being able to worship as one chooses? Or maybe a privilege similar to, oh, maybe, owning private property which is free from unwarranted government searches or siezure? Maybe it is a privilege more like being triedin a court when accused of a crime? Remember,one of thedifferences between a right and a privilege is the ability to take it away without just cause.


    I believe that you forgot that we live in a land with a "bill of rights", not a "bill of government privelege".

    When I was 17, I joined the army. I had my 18th birthday in Ft. Sill Oklahoma. By 18, not only was well trained in the use of a rifle, but nuclear artillary as well. Maybe you were less mature than I, but even so, you had the inalienable (meaning a human right not granted by a ruling power) to bear arms at that age.



    As for the fact that you are for gun control, just look at the facts and statistics and you will see that an armed society is MUCH safer than an unarmed society. YOU are responsible fot your safety. Take charge of it, and don't surrender it to a third party.


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    willyg wrote:
    The though of having armed 18-22 year olds is plain scary.

    Let me ask all of you a simple question. How mature were you in college? Personally I think I was about average...which for someone in that age, someone in that environment (looking back) is pretty pathetic.
    I don't have the same low expectations of people that you do.

    I'll grant you that by and large our culture is not doing a good job of producing many men, and you're proof of this, if you weren't mature in college.

    But I'm not going to leave it at that. I won't depend on our culture to produce maturity in our men -- after all, I'm the one responsible for my sons, so I'll see to it.

    Here's what I expect of a 12-year-old, never mind 18-22. By the time he's twelve, a young man should know how to:
    1. Provide emergency food and shelter for himself and others in a rural or urban setting. That means he must know how to hunt and gather, how to build a fire, how to tie knots and use a knife, how to fish, how to cook, how to stay dry and warm.
    2. Find his way. That means knowing major highways, compass directions, and landmarks.
    3. Do his chores/jobs without being told. He knows what to do -- why should I have to tell him every day?
    4. Communicate clearly. A twelve-year-old should have full command of the language, and should speak with a clear voice without rambling.
    5. Converse maturely with adults.He should not be goofy and incoherent.
    6. Defend himself and others. By the time he's twelve, he should know how to use a shotgun, a rifle, a revolver, and a semi-automatic pistol, and to be extremely careful with a gun he's not familiar with.
    7. Maintain a mature sense of purpose and destiny. That is, he should know the use and worth of how he spends his time, so that it serves a purpose in his future. He should not waste much time on computer games and TV.
    8. Handle money. Money is useful -- he should know how to use it.
    9. Take pain. Now, I don't particularly like pain -- it hurts -- but by the time he's twelve, he should know that some things hurt, and you get over it. He shouldn't avoid pain at all costs, and he shouldn't lose his composure when something gets to hurting.
    10. Keep good company. He should be well aware of the bad influence of wicked peers.
    11. Recognize injustice. He should be ready to struggle for what is right and resist what is wrong.
    12. Serve others. It is more blessed to give than to receive.
    Maybe a little historical context will help us. Check out these great men of the past, and set your expectations to these standards:

    Alexander Hamilton -- Ran a mercantile business in two languages at age 12. Wrote pamphlets on the Rev. War at age 16.

    John Q. Adams -- Received Congressional diplomatic appointment to the court of Catherine the Great at age 14.

    David Farragut -- In 1815 was made captain of a captured English ship at age 12, and warned a rebellious older man that he'd go overboard if he didn't straighten up.

    Edward the Black Prince -- In 1345 commanded the english army at age 16.
    Charles XII -- In 1697 became King of Sweden at age 14 with Parliament's consent and full support.

    Hugh O'Donnell (The Red) -- In 1572 was captured and shut up in prison at age 15, escaped 3 years later, recaptured, escaped one year later. Almost froze to death, lost both big toes.

    William McGuffey -- In 1814 opened his own school at age 14 and had 40 students.
    John Hancock -- Entered Harvard College at age 13.

    Stonewall Jackson -- Became a teacher at age 16, wrote "A man of words and not of deeds, is like a garden full of weeds." Became responsible for debt collections in his county at age 17.


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    Along those lines,

    Some may see my carrying of a firearm as a sign that I don't trust society, when in actuality, the opposite is true.

    I prefer todo business with establishments that allow my fellow citizens to carry. I feel safer knowing that there may be armed good guys near me with guns. I trust my fellow citizens

    The fact that there are a few bad guys out there as well is a given, but the nature of my fellow man is primarily good. We all need to watch out for the few bad guys, and be responsible for our individual safety.

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