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Thread: Citing sources

  1. #1
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    This may not be the right place for it, but I've been vocal on washingtonpost the last two days to help counter some of the factless opinions posted by many. During the excercise of debate with one poster over why there aren't more stories about positive uses (defenive uses by citizens) I politely directed to this website, who in turn told me that this was a pro-gun (SHOCKING!) site, and therefore wasn't a reliable source. I was dumbfounded as most of the stories in the true tales are reported by independant sources, not the people directly.

    That put me on a quest as many were reporting Australia and the UK don't have these types of problems because of their laws blah blah blah. So I started doing some research and came up with the following dispassionate, peer-reviewed data points/sources I thought I'd share.

    Australia[/b] has a gun ban and there are no longer any murders with guns argument:[/b]



    Crime statistics – Murders with firearms by country

    #4 US 8,259

    #5 Mexico 3,589

    #7 Germany 384

    #12 Canada 165

    #20 United Kingdom 62

    #21 Australia 59

    #23 Switzerland 40

    #29 Denmark 14

    SOURCE: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)



    History of what led to Australia’s gun ban:



    Sunday April 28, 1996 In a period of just over nineteen hours, Martin Bryant, a man described by locals as being "a quiet lad and a bit of a loner," had killed thirty-five men, women and children and wounded another eighteen making him the most notorious spree killer of all time.
    Entire story is here:
    http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/bryant/index_1.html
    Information on murders in Australia over two years 1998 - 2000 after the ban was enforced:
    Murders: 302
    Murders (per capita): 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
    Murders with firearms: 59
    Murders with firearms (per capita): 0.00293678 per 1,000 people

    Source http://www.nationmaster.com/country/as-australia/cri-crime
    In 2003 there were 341 homicides in Australia.
    Source
    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/01_recordedCrime.html
    There are a variety of means by which homicide is committed. In 2003-04 knives were more likely to be used than any other weapon (33%).
    A further 22% of homicides were committed using physical force (hands/feet), 17% with firearms, and 12% with blunt instruments.

    Source - figure 10
    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/02_selectedCrimeProfiles.html
    As a comparison, in 2004 in Virginia, 391 homicides were committed, 69.4% with a gun (doesn't specify type -hand, rifle, semi, or automatic), knife at 11.3%, and other at 19.3%
    Source here
    http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Homicide/State/RunHomOneYearofData.cfm
    Those are objective peer reviewed dispassionate sites.
    Not such an objective peer reviewed dispassionate site, but worth mentioning again, lol
    Guns kill people, people don’t kill people argument:
    Guns don’t kill people, here’s proof. This gun has been under constant surveillance on the internet for years, and it has yet to kill any innocent people. www.assaultweaponwatch.com/
    I'd like to know where one would be able to get stats on DC's crime rates - would FOIA to DC metro police for the years of 1976 - 2006 for all gun homicides get me what I'm looking for, and of all the gun related homicides from 2000 - 2006 in VA, which involved illegally obtained weapons? Would I get that from VA State Police? I've tried the US Burea of Justice statistics

    http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Homicide/State/RunHomOneYearofData.cfm

    but can't drill down like I want to. Suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Can you provide stats for how many armedrobberies for each location?


    And total populations....

    It seems that even with no gun ban... we have several states that had less murders than Australia... I would like to compare the total people for each state to that of Aurtralia.


    North Dakota 2
    Wyoming 2
    Vermont 4
    Delaware 5
    Maine 6
    New Hampshire 8
    South Dakota 9
    Rhode Island 13
    Idaho 15
    Hawaii 17
    Alaska 19
    Nebraska 21
    Iowa 24
    Utah 25
    West Virginia 37
    Oregon 50
    Connecticut 52

  3. #3
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    Here are some statistics on drunk driving deaths to compare the numbers... thought it might help (By State)...

    http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-dr...-virginia.html

    National... http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm



    Guess i didntuse my reading comprehension skills.. oh well... thought this info was interesting too!


    Looking for the DC stuff.

  4. #4
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    Found this nugget that I think is pretty helpful, someone else took the time to put it up on washpost - you can't provide links in your posts on their message boards which is a shame

    http://www.hardylaw.net/FailedExperiment.pdf


    Covers US, UK, Canada, Australia all in one. Good read.

  5. #5
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    Just for argument sake....

    Lets ban some things that are not necessary in society that can cause death.

    2004, United States

    Pedal cyclist Deaths (Bicycles)
    Total Saved = 843

    Cut/pierce Deaths (Sharp Stuff)
    Total Saved = 2,799

    Drowning Deaths (No Swimming or Boating)
    Total Saved =
    3,952

    Motorcyclist Deaths (Use your car)
    Total Saved = 3,940

    Suffocation Deaths (No plastic bags or longcords)
    Total Saved =
    14,043



  6. #6
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    The data is only one year apart but I feel it makes little diffrence.

    http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm

    During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S. died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes, representing 39% of all traffic-related deaths (NHTSA 2006).


    http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

    During 2004, 11,624 people in the US were victims of Homicide by Firearm.



  7. #7
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    Pay dirt, thanks Washington D. C. Metropolitain P.D.!



    DC Gun ban information homicides from 2001 to 05



    http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/frames.asp?d..._2001_2005.pdf







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