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Clips vs Magazines

HankT

HankT

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Legba wrote:
At the risk of straying off-topic, apjonas makes a good point. I find the substitution of "automatic" for "semi-automatic" more annoying than clips vs. magazines.
Click to expand...
This is a particularly bad habit of the press to call a "semi-automotic" weapon an "automatic" weapon. There is no justification for it whatsoever. The media people often seem to just conflate the two in error but at least some of the time they're doing it intentionally. As a result, millions of people think that, for example, we areall buying "automatic weapons" when we buy an AR or an AK in the U.S. The news media handles the "automatic/semi-automatic" reporting so bad that it is a clear ethical lapse when they do it.

Actually, the use of "auto" or "automatic" isn't always done in a sinister manner. If referring to something like ".45 ACP" it's just part of the jargon. And part of the problem is that the gun community frequently does call a semi-auto an "automatic."

Another bad one that the media do is create new concepts without any basis for them. Like "cop-killer bullets." And "shoot first" laws."

I don't have any problem with "clips," "gunman," "arsenal,""hi-cap magazines" or even the latest one, "hidden" (referring to a concealed weapon). These terms usually get used within an acceptable range of meaning. Iown a Glock 20 and one of the reasons I bought it was because it isa high-cap weapon.

I think complaining about bad media word usageshould be limited to really important distortions like, but notlimited to, "cop-killer bullets," "lax Virginia laws," and fundamentally mis-describing a "semi-automatic."
 
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DreQo

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How about this, before you put it into the M1 it is a clip, when it's in there it is a magazine.
Click to expand...
Wrong. The M1 has an internal magazine, as in the device that feeds the rounds into the action. When you load an M1, you use the CLIP to load the rounds into the MAGAZINE. Two different parts, two different roles.
 
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gsh341

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Here you go.

A clip holds ammunition together before insertion into a magazine.

In the case of revolvers that use moon or half-moon clips the magazine is the cylinder. In the case of the Garand, the magazine is part of the rifle and the clip (enbloc) is the device holding the ammunition together before insertion and while inside the magazine. Stripper clips hold ammunition for insertion into the magazine as well but are discarded after loading.

A magazine both holds and feeds ammunition into the weapon. It can be loaded using clips or by hand and clips are not needed.

It does bother me some when people use the two terms incorrectly and I usually correct them, but I can understand what they are saying and realize that most people don't know any better.
 
HankT

HankT

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I think we should pass a rule/law/regulation that says that it is OK for gun guys to improperly use the term 'clip' when it really is a 'magazine.'

However, if someone we do not like (newsmedia, Brady-ite, other anti, politician, BATFE, UN, etc.) uses 'clip' incorrectly, then abuse and scorn is rightfully heaped on them.

That would be a good rule, I think.
 
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apjonas

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The problem (if there is one) is one of equivocation - that is, using a term in two distinct ways. The an M1911 is an automatic pistol (ACP stands for......) because it automatically loads the next round (i.e. is an autoloader). This is not jargon but part of the name of the item. Of course, this came about long before the widespread awareness of true automatic weapons (automatic firing) such as a machine gun or other select fire weapon in the appropriate mode. Now we have the term "semi-automatic" to mean a weapon that autoloads. The failure to distinguish between auto and semi is a real problem but understand that at least part of the confusion is historical in nature. Obfuscation is a technique used to confuse. Do we help or hinder when we are sloppy with our terminology in places like this? I've had people insist that an "Uzi" is an automatic weapon. No, it is a manufacturer. They make firearms to be sure but also knives, optical devices, watches, etc. So what should we do? Pounce on every firstimer that uses the term "clip" inappropriately? Write to newpapers whenever they try to slip one by? I don't have an answer, just questions. :question:



HankT wrote:
Legba wrote:
At the risk of straying off-topic, apjonas makes a good point. I find the substitution of "automatic" for "semi-automatic" more annoying than clips vs. magazines.
Click to expand...
This is a particularly bad habit of the press to call a "semi-automotic" weapon an "automatic" weapon. There is no justification for it whatsoever. The media people often seem to just conflate the two in error but at least some of the time they're doing it intentionally. As a result, millions of people think that, for example, we areall buying "automatic weapons" when we buy an AR or an AK in the U.S. The news media handles the "automatic/semi-automatic" reporting so bad that it is a clear ethical lapse when they do it.

Actually, the use of "auto" or "automatic" isn't always done in a sinister manner. If referring to something like ".45 ACP" it's just part of the jargon. And part of the problem is that the gun community frequently does call a semi-auto an "automatic."

Another bad one that the media do is create new concepts without any basis for them. Like "cop-killer bullets." And "shoot first" laws."

I don't have any problem with "clips," "gunman," "arsenal,""hi-cap magazines" or even the latest one, "hidden" (referring to a concealed weapon). These terms usually get used within an acceptable range of meaning. Iown a Glock 20 and one of the reasons I bought it was because it isa high-cap weapon.

I think complaining about bad media word usageshould be limited to really important distortions like, but notlimited to, "cop-killer bullets," "lax Virginia laws," and fundamentally mis-describing a "semi-automatic."
Click to expand...
 
HankT

HankT

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apjonas wrote:
The an M1911 is an automatic pistol (ACP stands for......) because it automatically loads the next round (i.e. is an autoloader).
Click to expand...
And what does a double actionrevolver do?
:p
 
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Jackal

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Ok you got me there. That makes sence then (About the M1).

The action on a pistol (single or double) has to do with charging the weapon. A single action must be cock with the hammer before firing. A double has a mechanism that pushes the hammer back while the trigger is being pulled. then when the trigger reaches where it would normally drop the hammer, blamo. A large about of semi-autos are double/single action, meaning that you can cock the hammer to the rear and the sear will hold it in place until you pull the trigger, or you can simply pull the trigger and it'll do it for you. Why bother? If you cock the hammer then the amount of force required to pull the trigger and cause the hammer to fall is drastically reduced. It is a must in pistols that are meant to be carried in condition 1, like a 1911.
 
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kurtmax_0

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Um, I'm pretty sure IMI/IWI makes Uzis, and there isn't an "Uzi" company name. (There are a couple of other licensed manufacturers iirc)

But, Glock makes entrenching tools. So if someone goes on a murder rampage with a shovel, I wonder if the news will say he was using a Glock!
 
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jenzenk

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Easy defenitions:

Magazine - Fully encapsulates the rounds, i.e. - the round is totally surrounded by the device, and is fed into the weapon from the BOTTOM and remains in the weapon when fully expended

Clip - Holds the rounds only partially from the rear, leaving most of the rounds exposed and is fed into the weapon from the TOP. Clips are either not fed into the weapon at all (stripper clip) or if fed into the weapon, is ejected when all rounds are expended (the glorious Garand PING)!


Just had to throw my two cents at this one...

Keep 'em in the black!
 
J

jenzenk

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Sorry... forgot half-moon clips for revolvers... fed into the weapon and not ejected, but another form of clip due to how they hold the rounds.
 
HankT

HankT

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This helps with the subject...

http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html



OK.Now that that's taken care of, what are these????

grips1.jpg


Careful...
 
P

Pa. Patriot

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Further affirmation to DreQo statement. and the rifle utilizes an internal magazine that is charged via an "en bloc" clip.



I have become so used to the incorrect usage of "clip" that I pretty much just ignore it.
BUT... what really gets me is BANANA CLIP.
:cuss:

Upon hearing this I often cut the person off and ask "Just how many bananas does that thing hold anyway?"
 
T

Tomahawk

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jenzenk wrote:
Easy defenitions:

Magazine - Fully encapsulates the rounds, i.e. - the round is totally surrounded by the device, and is fed into the weapon from the BOTTOM and remains in the weapon when fully expended

Clip - Holds the rounds only partially from the rear, leaving most of the rounds exposed and is fed into the weapon from the TOP. Clips are either not fed into the weapon at all (stripper clip) or if fed into the weapon, is ejected when all rounds are expended (the glorious Garand PING)!


Just had to throw my two cents at this one...

Keep 'em in the black!
Click to expand...

Well, you can keep your two cents, because there are many magazine-fed armswhich feed from the top or the side, not the bottom. You were doing fine until you got to that part....

Also, clips don't necessarily get ejected from the weapon, as with half-moon clips, and some clips are not even used for loading the weapon directly, as with 5.56 mm ammo for the M-16, which is used only while the ammo is in the bandolier and is then discarded as you load the magazines.
 
J

jenzenk

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Tomahawk,

Please see the post DIRECTLY under the one you quote... I mention half-moon clips, and the part of my post you quote in-line covers stripper clips that are not even fed into the weapon... such as those used for 5.56 ammo in the bandoleer.

As for magazine fed weapons from the side or top, sorry I digress, I seemed to have forgotten the prevalence of Bren and Sten guns and WWII "Grease Guns" on the range today...

Guess I should just keep quiet... Relax Francis, don't want to get into a huge pissing contest.
 
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