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Thread: PNWOC-Alerts Archive

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I'm going to be posting stuff from PNWOpenCarry on both the Washington and Oregon pages.

    1) Virginia Tech Massacre

    I would have made comments about this incident earlier, but I wanted to wait and see how things would have shaken out. Sueng-Hui Cho killed two people, and then killed 30 more. I've heard reports that at least one of the 30 killed in the Engineering hall had a CHP.

    Virginia Tech lead the effort to defeat HB1572 in the Virginia General Assembly, which would have made the preemption statute even more clear that they could not prohibit students and faculty from lawful possession.

    Washington State and Oregon is also littered with universities who have no respect for our constitutional rights. Oregon Firearms Education Foundation actually sued the Oregon University System, however the status of the case is currently unknown after a loss in US District Court (Stubbs v. Oregon University System).

    We stand with VCDL and other groups that are saying "NO MORE" to these morons in the collegiate administrations throughout this country.

    2) Sound Transit stands down:

    Dear Mr. Wilson:

    Thank you for following up on your concern about the terminology used in
    Sound Transit's transit guide with respect to the passenger conduct rule
    regarding weapons and fire arms.

    In June 2007, a new Get Ready to Ride Transit Guide will be published
    with a revised Passenger Conduct section. In particular, the previous
    "no weapons or firearms" will specifically be changed to read "no
    unlawful weapons or firearms." The change will also be reflected under
    the Passenger Conduct found online in June.

    We appreciate your attention to this issue. Please contact me should
    you require any further assistance.

    Sincerely,

    Doug Zack
    Sound Transit

    I sent him back an email advising him that "No illegal weapons or illegal firearms" should be used, just to keep the grammatically challenged from saying "well it doesn't see "no illegal firearms, it says no firearms".

    Sent also this little tibit:

    A) Washington State is an "open carry" state for firearms. This means that there is a presumption that openly carrying a firearm in a holster is lawful, except where it is specifically unlawful. Per RCW 9.41.050(2), the carrying of loaded pistols in any vehicle is unlawful unless one possesses a concealed pistol license.

    B) Those who open carry, though rare, do tend to know the legal nuances of firearms laws in Washington more so than most security officers and police officers. Those who choose to open carry also as a general rule know their rights and responsibilities (including possessing a CPL for carrying in a vehicle of any kind), and will likely file complaints at any perceived mistreatment or harassment.

    I asked for that to be sent to BNSF Police and Securitas Security Services, the security agencies for Sounder and all Sound Transit stations respectively.

    3) 4/22/2007 Lunch

    There was little notice (48 hours worth), but myself and three people showed up and enjoyed ourselves at Round Table Pizza. Greg, Josh, and Brent, thank you for showing up, and I know a few wanted to come but couldn't do to the lack of notice. I apologize for it, it's just that it was sudden and I wanted to get something started quick for the folk who work Monday through Friday. We will be doing more meets, either Saturday or Sunday for myself and those that work weekdays, and midweek meets for those who work during the weekends. That brings up the next topic

    4) 4/25/2007 Lunch at Bellevue Applebees:

    From Sandy at OpenCarry.org:

    This Wednesday

    I'm still setting up the meet for those of us who want to have lunch this Wednesday. I want to spread the love, and enjoy different locations. It seems most people prefer Bellevue, so I have selected Applebees in Bellevue, at noon. The address is:

    13856 Bel Red Road
    Bellevue, WA 98005

    That's near the Safeway on 140th NE.

    Who's coming?

    --Sandy (WA)

    From this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/2193-2.html

    5) Oregon

    I have sent a reminder to my contact at Beaverton PD. When I get the public place bulletin, I'll hit Portland from three angles on it.

    That's it for now.

    Regards,

    Lonnie Wilson
    Founder, Pacific Northwest Open Carry
    lonnie . wilson @ yahoo. com

  2. #2
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    That's great news on Sound Transit! Now if I could only convince my employers to allow me to havemy firearmat least in my desk during the work day, even unloaded, I could carry it on the train/bus, but there is a strict "no weapons allowed" policy here......

    And I know too well the issue with colleges giving people trouble when excercising their 2nd Amendment rights....I was fired from working at a college campus because I brought a pocketknife to work one day.....and there was no law on the matter, as well as nothing about it in the employee or student rulebook. Completely in the wrong, but since Washington is an "at-will" state, not much to be done about it.

    I did threaten to sue them however, and mysteriously got 4 months of free medical coverage........

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    Employers banning guns at work is a real problem. Since I park in a company parking lot the company policy is clear...that I can be terminated for having a weapon in my car.

    I noticed that Florida's attempt to limit employers got sideswiped by the political process.

    Although I can be terminated it seems to be a risk workth taking as I'd rather be unemployed than dead.

  4. #4
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    If I drove to work I would definately carry and leave it locked up in the glovebox while in the building. If there was any way to carry it to work while taking the train and not have it on me when I entered the building I would do it, but there is just no way. Walking to work from the train station would be the #1 time I would want to carry, as there is more crazies in a 5 block radius around my work than anywhere else I've ever seen.....

    EDIT: Although living in Lakewood next to Western State Hospital comes close

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    I have the same thing, nasty employer that will do everything to support homosexual "rights", but wish to stomp on the 2nd A. I would not recommend glove box locking though. Invest in a safe for the truck. There are good ones out there that you can mount just about anywhere you have room.

    http://www.handgunsafe.com/4811s.htm


  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    xpun8 wrote:
    I have the same thing, nasty employer that will do everything to support homosexual "rights", but wish to stomp on the 2nd A.
    Those employers are hypocrites, speaking as a gay man myself.

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    How about some affirmative action for gun lovers?

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    To everyone,

    I want to apologize for the lack of updates on this list. When I originally started this group, I was working a job that had me working graveyard and I had an abundance of time writing up updates. Now this is no longer the case. A lot more recent information is over on OpenCarry.org's Washington and Oregon pages, however there are some who are here and not there, so I will update the list.

    1) Certain Tacoma Police Department Officers Ill-Trained, Power Hungry, and Just Plain Stupid

    In less than a 24 Hour Period, two different Tacoma Police Officers, Officers Antush and Olsen, committed violations of civil rights because of their lack of knowledge of open carry's legality at the beginning. The second incident, involving Officer Olsen, however, will make your blood boil. It certainly did with me.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/2732.html

    Worst part was his acknowledgment that open carry was legal, but he would literally steal his gun next time he carries on the Ruston Ave Waterfront.

    Tacoma PD has also been violating people's rights in other ways.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMDW4Fszj2U

    I am in the process of attempting to get the dash cam and audio tape if available from Tacoma PD. Also, contact has been made with Tacoma PD's internally through a contact. I have directed a few people to NOT contact the Chief of Police
    of Tacoma PD or their city council, and to let this be handled exclusively by myself, Mainsail, compmanio365 (I will not identify their real names unless permission is given), and my contact who has a connection with Tacoma PD.

    In terms of dealing with Tacoma Police Department, I handed out a warning to everyone in regards to contact with Tacoma PD that can apply to any "anti-gun" city: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES CONTACT THE POLICE CHIEF OR THE MAYOR/CITY COUNCIL. These persons within the department and of course in the mayor/council are politicians and political appointees. Unless you have a feel for the area and know for a fact that they are pro-gun and pro-open carry, it's generally a bad idea. When you contact a mid-level, such as IAD, Training Department, and so on, you're dealing with career law enforcement who generally doesn't have an anti-gun axe to grind to go the Legislature and demand a return of Case and Carry, or a full out ban on open carry. Though any such ban would likely be unconstitutional, that takes years to sort out in the courts.

    The Tacoma cases, My Situation with the State Ferries, and other assorted are basically becoming Washington's version of "Starbuck's Incidents" that occurred in Virginia where two men were cited for violation of a law that did not apply to their situations.

    We play the situation smart, and we can not only have our cake, we can eat it too.

    2) Washington State Ferries

    It would appear that my letter to the Ferries had an impact. I contacted Susan Harris by pager (she is the customer information manager for WSF) and she called me back on my cellphone at 4:40PM on Friday. I asked her what was the status of the situation, I had to jog her memory a little, and she stated that the Ferry Terminal Employees and the WSP have been corrected on the subject. I asked if the Kittitas and Cathlamet crews were notified. She stated that she didn't know there was a problem with the vessel crews. *headdesk* I guess the whole "taking pictures of my license plate on board the boat" thing got missed. Anyway, I advised her of what happened on Kittitas, and I warned her that I would be traveling to Whidbey Island this weekend and it would be best for the crews of the boats to know that fact that it is lawful to open carry.

    She stated that she would call the Port Captains for both boats and direct them to notify the vessel crew, and that a wider advisory for the rest of the Ferry system was coming. I thanked her for her time, and for the fact that she called me when most try to get off work early for Memorial Day!

    I will be on this situation in regards to WSF, and as soon as the advisory is sent out, I will PRA it and add it to the training bulletins. Assuming that WSF's does what it's supposed to do, the State Ferries will be the second state agency to acknowledge the legality of open carry (Department of Licensing being the first).

    3) Seattle PD Privacy Act Problems

    Though not directly open carry related, many of us in the open carry movement also believe in standing up for our rights in other areas, such as free speech and free expression, as well as privacy.

    One of the most important statutory rights that we have is the ability under most circumstances to give social security numbers to most state and local government agencies. This is contained in Section 7 of the Privacy Act of 1974:

    http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/privstat.htm

    Though there are certain exceptions, gun purchases are not one of them, nor are criminal background checks.

    I was picking up some guns from Seattle PD (they were seized and Seattle PD was questioning his ability to own firearms under federal law), and they gave me a form called "Background Check for Firearm Release".

    SSN is there. No section 7(b) privacy warning. So I figured that filling it out and faxing it in with the statute number and law section would work, not disclosed if any per....

    Well, I had to argue with someone named Haley for 5 minutes. She claimed that records (Which does the firearm background checks) would not accept the form without an SSN. I told her that the background check is EXACTLY like the carry license checks that Records does and they do NOT require an SSN. She absolutely insisted.

    If it were my own guns, I would have fought. However, because they weren't actually and they were in impound two years too long, I capitulated and gave that information over to get her to shut up and quit holding things up. I was in a rush, I was in a hurry, and I didn't have time. However, I did finally, after regretting that decision immediately, contacted the leader of the Evidence Unit. She wasn't in (Her name is Sgt. Granard), but I called her and gave her the specifics, and gave her the statute cite for the privacy act.

    The next day, she called me back, and told me that I was correct, and that new forms would be drawn up immediately, putting on a section 7b privacy warning and that it is voluntary. Haley probably wasn't having a good conversation with the Sgt.

    Don't make the mistake that I did. Patience wins out over rushing. If I had simply waited a day or two, it would have all been resolved in my favor before the fact.

    4) King County Sheriffs Bulletin Coming

    Apparently this bulletin was issued months ago, and there was apparently a communication breakdown and my contact with KSCO did not receive the bulletin. This is being addressed this week. With any luck I'll put it up on the list and hand it over to OpenCarry.org. Another thing to slap Seattle PD Training with.

    5) Edmonds PD Incident

    A few weeks ago, there was the case of a man who had the cops called on him for an encased rifle. The news refused to identify him however I am now in possession of the police report. Though there are certainly incorrect statements made by officers (there was a pat down frisk search done on Vernon, which is his real first name), it looks like the majority of the situation being blown out of per portion was by the 911 Dispatch Agency Named "SnoCom". I have a PDA request for the telephone and radio traffic in regards to this incident now that I have the case file. After a review of SnoCom's response to the incident, I will be giving a critique along with the King County Sheriffs Office Bulletin, the Federal Way bulletin, and so on. If SnoCom can change the way it receives "man with a gun" calls in terms of asking an extra question. Luckily, both telephone traffic and radio traffic will be in mp3 format, and available from the files section.

    6) Seattle PD....again

    Seattle PD has a huge propensity to keep the whole "head in sand" thing going. I'm probably going to have to act like the mom who won't stop knocking on their teenage kids door.

    7) George Washington

    Postings have been made by someone named "George Washington" from WashingtonCeasefire.com for the last few months. Generally, George has been poking a stick in the eye of the Washington Ceasefire organization (I got a chuckle out of Natalie Riebers criminal and civil records being posted online) is OK, however the group has been asked to send over video of open carry in downtown Seattle and near Washington Ceasefire (the official gun control organization) location.

    For the same reason as the symposium about 6 months ago with an anti-gun author, I have to strongly discourage sending over video to WashingtonCeasefire.com, or open carry near Washington Ceasefire to get a reaction. The point of open carrying about our daily lives is to be ambassadors for our gun rights. Trying to get a reaction out of the Washington Ceasefire organization would be a tremendously fatal error for open carry in this state, and the next time an open carry ban does pass, there likely will not a CPL exemption.

    Not to mention the fact that WashingtonCeasefire.com is being targeted in an ICANN dispute, now the real Washington Ceasefire is paying very close attention to the website, along with all of the information on open carry (training bulletins have been posted there), and so on. This leads to the next item.

    8) Seattle Open Carry Issues, and Pride Festivities?

    From a strategic perspective, open carry in Seattle.is a delicate subject. Summer approaches and I desire to open carry more so for my own reasons there than most people here. For me, I will be attending the Seattle Pride festivities in both Capitol Hill and the north downtown area. At this point, I have decided to open carry. You can bet I'll have training bulletins not just in my car, but in my hand. I will also be wearing a Pink Pistols shirt and some of the rest of the "gear" involving Pride, because I will be a full attendant there and involved in the festivities, or at least try to be. The festivities are all open to the public and the only people who can enforce rules in Seattle Parks is Seattle PD. Which is partly why I've been hopping on Seattle PD's training division to issue an advisory on the subject so hard, though I wish I tried harder or found out who issued them earlier.

    I am putting in a call to any member of the GLBT community who also has membership in this group, in the pdxpinkpistols group (which I am ccing in this email, and a few members may attend Seattle Pride), as well as a few other individuals that I am BCC'ing, to open carry at Seattle Pride festivities in Capitol Hill. There are several reasons why I am only asking members of the GBLT community to join in on this.

    First is the fact that Seattle PD would be tremendously standoffish on arresting those who are openly GLBT and attending Pride.

    Second is the fact that most Seattle PD knows that open carry is legal. The issue here is the 20% who are power trippers who don't care that open carry is legal, but will harass (Officer Olsen, anyone?). Though these particular police tend to mess with those with political differences (war protests), there are certain political power plays within Seattle that make the GLBT community a powerful political force and that even these cops fear them. There's a saying: May not like what he/she is doing, but they're a member of my community, and we won't tolerate the harassment if what he's doing is lawful.

    Third is the comfort level with the environment that Pride entails. Though certainly I would welcome open carry by a huge group that we can gather, this is a situation that only GLBT members of this group and other allied groups should particularly risk. Open carry at Pride festivities by a person not easily identified as GLBT would be extraordinarily provocative and considered very threatening. Again, the best ambassador to a cause is someone that the people you are trying to educate can identify with. They'll identify with someone like myself and ask questions, they won't with someone not easily identified as a member of the GLBT community. As someone on this list would say, the general GLBT community would likely say "You ain't one of us, and you ain't from 'round here".

    Can I guarantee that you won't be arrested?

    No, I can't. I can give copies of training advisories from King County, the State Ferries, Federal Way, Kent, and Des Moines (which was a 1 page copy along with a print out of Federal Way), a copy of the Chief's Counsel, a copy of the state preemption statute to anyone who asks, however I ask that you please have them in a vanilla envelope in hand at all times.

    What if a law enforcement officer (Seattle PD) demands that I hand over ID or my CPL?

    Politely advise them that a CPL is not required to open carry under RCW 9.41.050(1), and that if their reason for asking is because they think the case and carry law is still in affect, it is not. I will be finding the Session Law and posting it into the files section, which is 97-200, repealing the case and carry law, for dissemination, as well as the CJTC advisory that case and carry was repealed.

    If they insist under threat of arrest, I would say "give it to them". Nothing is served by you being in jail.. Address the violation of rights afterwards, not while arguing with the cops on the street. Do get their badge number, and a business card, and call me immediately so I can get a hold of the Seattle PD Officer in charge.

    What if they demand concealment under threat of arrest?

    Assuming for a moment that you did hand them all of the training bulletins (remember, you only have copies, don't feel bad if they keep them, just call me up and I'll get more reprinted for you for the rest), and already have a badge, badge number, and supervisor's name, demand a supervisor on the spot to file a complaint. That's at the point they graduate to Officer Olsen level and it needs to be corrected on the spot. The police supervisors tend to be a little more level headed on the subject and will read training advisories. If they won't do so, do what they say and CONCEAL IT. Call me up, and I will find the Seattle PD supervisor in charge of security for the event and have the issue addressed on the spot by me. Once it's addressed, I will call and give an all clear. Speaking of which, I will be finding out who Seattle PD's supervisor for the festivities at both locations are soon. Maybe none of this will happen, but there's always a possibility that there may be a little turnover from other parts of the Seattle PD area that didn't get the memo from the commander in charge.

    What about the tightness of the area with all of the people walking about.

    If anyone remembers my previous thread on retention holsters, I would highly suggest buying one. Your typical belt loop with a strap Galco holster isn't going to do the job for retention. In a crowded area, be aware of your surroundings, and please invest in a minimum of a Level 2 retention holster. I have selected the Blackhawk Serpa Level 2 holster for my Springfield XD-40, as there's a distinct lack of Level 3 retention holsters for my open carry gun, and there won't be one before Pride released. I will be upgrading to Level 3 as soon as it's released.

    9) What about Portland or Portland Pride?

    Different and thornier issue. Unlike Seattle Pride, Portland Pride is a "donation" system with a walled off gate and security at the door. Though there are certainly no "rules" on the Northwest Pride addressing the issue, it would appear that protesters are allowed to be within the fenced area, and you'd think that carriers would be allowed, however I have been told that this is not the case (please correct if I'm wrong). By all rights, those with Oregon Concealed Handgun Licenses are exempt from Portland loaded firearm ban, and should be allowed into the festival. However unlike Seattle, where most officers know it's legal, in Portland it's the exact opposite scenario.

    I will be in attendance at Portland's Pride Parade. However, I am still trying to get Beaverton to issue a training advisory on public place carry, so I can slap Portland with it. The person I've been emailing has not been responsive, however I will be sending an email to him, to Harry Auerbach, and a few others: "I will be attending Portland Pride Parade. I and others will be open carrying. They will have their CHL's, and there will be someone with a video camera. Unless you want your officers harassing GLBT people for lawful activity being put all over Youtube, train your officers now. You have two weeks.". Unlike before, I am throwing down a gauntlet that I intend to follow through on. Again, will be finding out who the commander in charge of security is for Portland Pride as well, hopefully with all officers getting a memo BEFORE the festivities start.

    10) A call for recording equipment and business cards.

    We also may need camera folk as well who are willing to carry concealed to record, and we need audio recorders on our persons for sure to record our police interactions during the Pride festivities.

    I am also calling for business card designs, that'll promote open carry, the pacific northwest open carry group, and opencarry.org. On the back, we can do a "why I carry openly" thing.

    That's it for now. My apologies for the lack of update. If anyone wants to contact me directly, please feel free to do so, especially when it comes to volunteers for the Pride stuff in Portland and Seattle.

    Regards,

    Lonnie Wilson
    Founder, Pacific Northwest Open Carry

  9. #9
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    5) Edmonds PD Incident

    A few weeks ago, there was the case of a man who had the cops called on him for an encased rifle. The news refused to identify him however I am now in possession of the police report. Though there are certainly incorrect statements made by officers (there was a pat down frisk search done on Vernon, which is his real first name), it looks like the majority of the situation being blown out of per portion was by the 911 Dispatch Agency Named "SnoCom". I have a PDA request for the telephone and radio traffic in regards to this incident now that I have the case file. After a review of SnoCom's response to the incident, I will be giving a critique along with the King County Sheriffs Office Bulletin, the Federal Way bulletin, and so on. If SnoCom can change the way it receives "man with a gun" calls in terms of asking an extra question. Luckily, both telephone traffic and radio traffic will be in mp3 format, and available from the files section.
    Hey Lonnie, I posted about this over at G&G.com back when I read about it in our SnoCo Herald. The way it's worded in the article, it sounds like the officers handled it rather well and calmly, though I doubt the escort back to his vehicle was necessary.

    The link to the Herald article: Man shocked when his rifle causes ruckus

    From the sounds of it, you're already delving deeper than I have, but I wasn't sure if you'd read that report yet.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Lonnie,

    I know you're probably just being polite, but for heaven's sake you don't owe anybody an apology! The casual reader would assume your work on behalf of firearm rights was your full-time job! Carry on... and thanks for all your efforts.

    :-)

    EDIT: @#$%@$#$@@!!! forum software doesn't understand actual html! :-( !!!


  11. #11
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    kparker wrote:
    Lonnie,

    I know you're probably just being polite, but for heaven's sake you don't owe anybody an apology! The casual reader would assume your work on behalf of firearm rights <i>was your full-time job</i>! Carry on... and thanks for all your efforts.

    :-)
    From the short time I've been watching the boards, I'll second that notion!

    Your work is much appreciated and I can't wait to get the chance to shake your hand the next scheduled Lunch.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    kparker wrote:
    Lonnie,

    I know you're probably just being polite, but for heaven's sake you don't owe anybody an apology! The casual reader would assume your work on behalf of firearm rights was your full-time job! Carry on... and thanks for all your efforts.

    :-)

    EDIT: @#$%@$#$@@!!! forum software doesn't understand actual html! :-( !!!
    If this was a full time job, I'd have the official title of "Anthill kicker" or "Professional Rabble Rouser".


    Go figure, I have a full time job on top of all of this. It be nice to work this sort of thing as a job nationwide. "Open carry problems? Fly me in, provide me with caselaw, and I'll work it, just give me a comfortable living"

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    If this was a full time job, I'd have the official title of "Anthill kicker" or "Professional Rabble Rouser".


    Go figure, I have a full time job on top of all of this. It be nice to work this sort of thing as a job nationwide. "Open carry problems? Fly me in, provide me with caselaw, and I'll work it, just give me a comfortable living"
    Sounds almost like a Bizzaro-Tim Eyman. Hehehe.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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