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    This is my first post on this forum and first off I would like to thank you all for what you do. I was informed last sun by a Logan pd detective that open carry was not allowed. Not even for off duty leos. He said that anyone who carried in such a manner with or without a CFP (which I have) would be subject to arrest for brandishing. Anything I can do about this? I would love to carry openly? Thanks for your help.

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    dms wrote:
    This is my first post on this forum and first off I would like to thank you all for what you do. I was informed last sun by a Logan pd detective that open carry was not allowed. Not even for off duty leos. He said that anyone who carried in such a manner with or without a CFP (which I have) would be subject to arrest for brandishing. Anything I can do about this? I would love to carry openly? Thanks for your help.
    I am just so glad that you asked! Well, to put it quite frankly, this Detective LIED to you. (They tend to do that!) Utah allows unlicensed open carry of a firearm that is at least 2 actions from firing. For example, a semi-auto may have a full mag but the chamber must be empty. Permit holder may open carry as well, but their firearms may be fully loaded. Next time a police officer tells you that, ask them to show you the part of the Utah law code that makes Open Carry unlawful!!!

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    Remember DMS,

    If there is nothing in the code SPECIFICALLY prohibiting the OPEN carry of firearms, then its NOT illegal.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    dms wrote:
    This is my first post on this forum and first off I would like to thank you all for what you do. I was informed last sun by a Logan pd detective that open carry was not allowed. Not even for off duty leos. He said that anyone who carried in such a manner with or without a CFP (which I have) would be subject to arrest for brandishing. Anything I can do about this? I would love to carry openly? Thanks for your help.
    Did you get the name of this detective?

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    Thank you all for your replies. Just to give a quick update I called the Logan PD again yesterday after speaking with Bci, and the detective I spoke with said that open carry was indeed legal, unless it alarmed someone. After that the conversation devolved into why I would give away my tactical edge... Anyhow I was left with the impression that if I did carry open I would be harrassed. I just dont understand the attitudes. Anyhow I will be carrying open from now on. Just hope that it will be a positive experience.

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    Don't hope. BE READY! Read through the threads, follow the links,and learn as much statutory and case law as youcan.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Yeah its true Logan is not that friendly towards those who express their rights truthfully. I've been harrased while carrying concealed. I have yet to get up the gumption to carry open in town. I'm a college student which makes the effort harder since I am already in their crosshairs because of my age bracket. I expect however to get some trouble as I open carry in the mountains. But I carry all the right statutes with me and I am always ready to inform the misinformed. GRRR. Hope to see you packing DMS. Go Luck

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    I don't know where Logan is, but I have never been told not to OC in UT. I OC around the Provo and Sandy area mostly.

    I have been asked by officers to see my CC license (I havea VA CHP). After showing them, I have never had any more that have a good day. This was also has I lifted something onto a car and went from CC to OC, so it did not upset me.

    Search the threads about the "two (2) action" rules and how it does not apply to CC license holders.

    I have never been approached when I started OC'ing.

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    Logan is sort of in the northern right corner of Utah next to the border of Idaho. It has only a small highway running through it not a freeway. It is also a college town. I think all of these aspects together, plus the fact that the valley has the lowest concealed carry permits per population in the state, has much to do with the attitude. Utah state statute says that an unloaded gun can be carried openly without the need for a permit. Therefore anyone who qualifies to own a gun can have a fully loaded magazine without a bullet in the chamber. I.E one action to put a bullet in the chamber and one action of the trigger to make it go boom. State statute than says that anyone with a ccw permit can carry a loaded weapon on their person. There is no mention of concealed nor open therefore open carry is presumed legal. Loaded in Utah means one action to fire. Thus the trigger. Therefore with a ccw permit you can carry fully chambered but without one you can carry mag in without one in the chamber. Doubtful that either one will get you very far here in Logan. Even the local instructor falsily claims that it is illegal to carry openly within the city. Completely wrong but an attitude that seems to stick here in the valley.

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    Sorry, I hit send one too many times.

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    I talked to the Logan City police chief a couple of weeks ago. I asked him about open carry and whether or not his officers were trained on the law. He said they were aware that it is perfectly legal. He just adviced me to be careful so that I don't ruin the right for everyone else. I'm not quite sure what he was trying to say there.

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    Another question I have is on where everyone is coming up with the non-permit open carrying a loaded firearm two steps away from loaded. I believe everyone but I have been unable to figure out where it is written. I want to be able to quote law directly before I start open carrying regularily. I am going to be a teacher and don't want the stigma of a weapons conviction to explain. I doubt it would get that far but I like to be 100% for this sort of thing. I will admit I don't understand law well and if anyone is willing to lead me to my answer I would be grateful.

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    As with most Utah laws the absense of a restriction deems it possible.

    Statute 76-10-505 Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street states:

    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm

    (a) in or on vehicle

    (b) on any public street; or

    (c) in a posted prohibited area

    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

    So I cannot carry a loaded firearm on my person, there is nothing that says I cannot carry an unloaded firearm. But 76-10-504 states I cannot conceal a dangerous weapon without a permit. Therefore the absense of allows me to carry a unloaded weapon unconcealed or open.

    If we then look at the definition of a loaded weapon it says in 76-10-502 means only one action to fire. Thus two actions is unloaded. Throwing these together demonstrates the ability to open carry unloaded. or loaded with a permit.

    Its just a matter of looking through all the pertinent statutes and seeing if they deny the ability of something. The lawsonly state restrictions.

    Hopes this helps.

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    i just got off the phone with the BCI open carry is legal any where in utah with out A CFP the 2 action rule applys and i do have a CFP

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    I thought I would add something to the conversation.

    I am an alumni of USU (the University in Logan). I am also an avid hunter, concealed carry permit holder, and sometimes like to open carry.

    When I lived in the on-campus housing (Aggie Village) the USU police insisted that guns were not allowed in student housing. They told me that they provide free 24 hour/7 days a week storage at the USU police department. I asked them the specific question, "what if I want my gun at 3am?". They insisted I could get my guns anytime I wanted no questions asked.

    Lets just say I didn't let the "policy" stop me from keeping my favorite revolver strapped to my bed post. I was in full conformance with Utah law. My life is more important than abiding to USU "policy".

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    Since the UoU controversies, the police are a bit more stand offish on campus about trying to stop people. I would say I am a 24 hour type of guy all the time. On campus or not. Perfectly legal.

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    dms wrote:
    This is my first post on this forum and first off I would like to thank you all for what you do. I was informed last sun by a Logan pd detective that open carry was not allowed. Not even for off duty leos. He said that anyone who carried in such a manner with or without a CFP (which I have) would be subject to arrest for brandishing. Anything I can do about this? I would love to carry openly? Thanks for your help.
    PISS ON HIM !!!

    He is just saying that cuz he wants to be the only ONE that can carry a gun "CUZ I'VE GOT A BADGE" attitude.

    This is a PREEMPTIVE STATE and OPEN CARRY WITH OR WITHOUT PERMIT IS ALLOWED. Where ever you can CCW you can OPEN CARRY

    Here is thePH# to Clark Aposhian (The Chairman of the Board @ BCI) 801-560-4836, and he will be more than to help you with any Q's you have.

    Utah Code Section 76-10-505




    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street. (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm: ...
    http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C034.htm - 2k - ]http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C034.htm+76-10-505&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us]Cached[/url] - ]http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C034.htm]Similar pages[/url]


    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle;
    (b) on any public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.


    Amended by Chapter 328, 1990 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C034.ZIP 1,712 Bytes


    Utah Code Section 76-10-500




    76-10-500. Uniform law. (1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right, the Legislature finds the need to provide ...

    76-10-500. Uniform law.
    (1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state. Except as specifically provided by state law, a citizen of the United States or a lawfully admitted alien shall not be:
    (a) prohibited from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping any firearm at his place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in his possession or lawfully under his control; or
    (b) required to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
    (2) This part is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities. All authority to regulate firearms shall be reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities. Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact or enforce any ordinance, regulation, or rule pertaining to firearms.


    Enacted by Chapter 5, 1999 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C029.ZIP 2,221 Bytes




    Let's meet in Logan and we can go to and OPEN CARRY:celebrate to Bluebird and have a bite to eat after we have been shooting:celebrate.

  18. #18
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    whiptrackercracker wrote:
    If we then look at the definition of a loaded weapon it says in 76-10-502 means only one action to fire. Thus two actions is unloaded.


    Sounds like everyone is carrying a Glock. If you have a pistol with a safety, wouldn't selecting from safe to fire be the first action, and pulling the trigger be the second?

    SGT Jensen

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    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  19. #19
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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    whiptrackercracker wrote:
    If we then look at the definition of a loaded weapon it says in 76-10-502 means only one action to fire. Thus two actions is unloaded.


    Sounds like everyone is carrying a Glock. If you have a pistol with a safety, wouldn't selecting from safe to fire be the first action, and pulling the trigger be the second?

    SGT Jensen

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    One would thinks so but the definition is pretty clear unfortunatly,

    Utah Code Section 76-10-502




    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded. (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part ...
    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C031.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages


    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


    Amended by Chapter 328, 1990 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C031.ZIP 1,898 Bytes




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    Hello again. I wish I had better news to relate, but apparently, at least here in Logan the right to open carry has ceased to be recognized by those with power. I.E. guns that are not mine. I was again accosted for carrying open, and I filed 2 complaints. One with LPD, the other with BCI. Capt. Cullins informed me that in the eyes of the LPD permit holders were not exempt from that particular statute, and violators would be arrested. BCI said they could not specifically comment but that in some instances open carry could be an arrestable offense. What a shame that law enforcement can now legalize without the process of law. If I had the money to be a test case I would gladly do so, but I dont. I am disgusted. If you have the time or inclination, maybe if we all wrote letters we might get somewhere, but I've done all I can by myself. I carried open everyday for almost 2 months, and the only peoople who cared had badges.

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    Did BCI say in what cases that it could be an arrestable offense?

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    dms wrote:
    Hello again. I wish I had better news to relate, but apparently, at least here in Logan the right to open carry has ceased to be recognized by those with power. I.E. guns that are not mine. I was again accosted for carrying open, and I filed 2 complaints. One with LPD, the other with BCI. Capt. Cullins informed me that in the eyes of the LPD permit holders were not exempt from that particular statute, and violators would be arrested. BCI said they could not specifically comment but that in some instances open carry could be an arrestable offense. What a shame that law enforcement can now legalize without the process of law. If I had the money to be a test case I would gladly do so, but I dont. I am disgusted. If you have the time or inclination, maybe if we all wrote letters we might get somewhere, but I've done all I can by myself. I carried open everyday for almost 2 months, and the only peoople who cared had badges.

    Did you talk to Clark Aposhian, the Chairman of the Board @ BCI?

    His Ph # is 801-560-4836.

    Try to Contact Lonnie under L in the memberlist and he for sure will help you too.

    How did they say that Open Carry can be an arrestable offense?


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    First of all Iwould like to say that BCI has been very helpful. However BCI said that they could not specifically comment on why it may be arrestable. LPD however told me that not banning open carry was 1) an oversight 2) meant just for rural areas 3) was permissable only if weapon was unloaded Finally) Capt. Cullens flat out denied the fact that it was at all permissable. LPD wouldnt tell me what I would be arrested for, but they did use this anecdote to persuade me of the lawfullness of their proposed actions. A man was arrested at Smiths for having a belt made out of spent .308 shells. This "scared the hell out of people", and he was arrested for criminal mischief. If that is all there is to that story, then I feel extremely confident in the fact that I too would be arrested for OCing. As I stated before, I OCed here in logan ut for almost 2 mnths and the only people who cared had badges. I got more comments on my yarmulke (jewish skullcap) than my springfield XD .45.

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    dms wrote:
    First of all Iwould like to say that BCI has been very helpful. However BCI said that they could not specifically comment on why it may be arrestable. LPD however told me that not banning open carry was 1) an oversight 2) meant just for rural areas 3) was permissable only if weapon was unloaded Finally) Capt. Cullens flat out denied the fact that it was at all permissable. LPD wouldnt tell me what I would be arrested for, but they did use this anecdote to persuade me of the lawfullness of their proposed actions. A man was arrested at Smiths for having a belt made out of spent .308 shells. This "scared the hell out of people", and he was arrested for criminal mischief. If that is all there is to that story, then I feel extremely confident in the fact that I too would be arrested for OCing. As I stated before, I OCed here in logan ut for almost 2 mnths and the only people who cared had badges. I got more comments on my yarmulke (jewish skullcap) than my springfield XD .45.
    I just sent of a PM to Lonnie and I think he will be able to contact the Logan PD and get a straight answer. I asked him to posthis answer to the Link

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    Im sorry, What is a PM?

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