daniel.call
Regular Member
imported post
Did BCI say in what cases that it could be an arrestable offense?
Did BCI say in what cases that it could be an arrestable offense?
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Logan
- Thread starter dms
- Start date
UTOC-45-44
Regular Member
imported post
dms wrote:
Did you talk to Clark Aposhian, the Chairman of the Board @ BCI?
His Ph # is 801-560-4836.
Try to Contact Lonnie under L in the memberlist and he for sure will help you too.
How did they say that Open Carry can be an arrestable offense?
dms wrote:
Did you talk to Clark Aposhian, the Chairman of the Board @ BCI?
His Ph # is 801-560-4836.
Try to Contact Lonnie under L in the memberlist and he for sure will help you too.
How did they say that Open Carry can be an arrestable offense?
imported post
First of all Iwould like to say that BCI has been very helpful. However BCI said that they could not specifically comment on why it may be arrestable. LPD however told me that not banning open carry was 1) an oversight 2) meant just for rural areas 3) was permissable only if weapon was unloaded Finally) Capt. Cullens flat out denied the fact that it was at all permissable. LPD wouldnt tell me what I would be arrested for, but they did use this anecdote to persuade me of the lawfullness of their proposed actions. A man was arrested at Smiths for having a belt made out of spent .308 shells. This "scared the hell out of people", and he was arrested for criminal mischief. If that is all there is to that story, then I feel extremely confident in the fact that I too would be arrested for OCing. As I stated before, I OCed here in logan ut for almost 2 mnths and the only people who cared had badges. I got more comments on my yarmulke (jewish skullcap) than my springfield XD .45.
First of all Iwould like to say that BCI has been very helpful. However BCI said that they could not specifically comment on why it may be arrestable. LPD however told me that not banning open carry was 1) an oversight 2) meant just for rural areas 3) was permissable only if weapon was unloaded Finally) Capt. Cullens flat out denied the fact that it was at all permissable. LPD wouldnt tell me what I would be arrested for, but they did use this anecdote to persuade me of the lawfullness of their proposed actions. A man was arrested at Smiths for having a belt made out of spent .308 shells. This "scared the hell out of people", and he was arrested for criminal mischief. If that is all there is to that story, then I feel extremely confident in the fact that I too would be arrested for OCing. As I stated before, I OCed here in logan ut for almost 2 mnths and the only people who cared had badges. I got more comments on my yarmulke (jewish skullcap) than my springfield XD .45.
UTOC-45-44
Regular Member
imported post
dms wrote:
dms wrote:
I just sent of a PM to Lonnie and I think he will be able to contact the Logan PD and get a straight answer. I asked him to posthis answer to the Link
BB62
Accomplished Advocate
imported post
dms wrote:
PM = private message.
Click on the user's name to whom you wish to send one, and select "Send a Private Message".
This message is not seen by anyone else, and it is impolite (and against some board's terms of service) to post PM's where they can be publically read.
dms wrote:
PM = private message.
Click on the user's name to whom you wish to send one, and select "Send a Private Message".
This message is not seen by anyone else, and it is impolite (and against some board's terms of service) to post PM's where they can be publically read.
daniel.call
Regular Member
imported post
9.16.120: [highlight= aqua]CRIMINAL[/highlight] [highlight= aqua]MISCHIEF[/highlight]; VIOLATION; PENALTY:
A. A person commits [highlight= aqua]criminal[/highlight] [highlight= aqua]mischief[/highlight] if:
1. Such person intentionally and unlawfully tampers with the property of another and thereby:
a. Recklessly endangers human life, or
b. Recklessly causes or threatens a substantial interruption or impairment of the public utility service; or
2. Such person intentionally damages, defaces or destroys the property of another;
3. Such person recklessly or wilfully shoots or propels a missile or other object at or against a motor vehicle, bus, airplane, boat, locomotive, train, railroad car or caboose, whether moving or standing.
B. Any violation of this section other than subsection A1 of this section, is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail up to six (6) months and/or a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000.00), if the actor's conduct causes or is intended to cause pecuniary loss in excess of two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00). If the actor's conduct causes or is intended to cause pecuniary loss of less than two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00), then such conduct shall be punishable by imprisonment not to exceed ninety (90) days or a fine not to exceed two hundred ninety nine dollars ($299.00) or by both such fine and imprisonment. (1989 Code: prior code § 12-13-1)
I just don't see them being able to stick a criminal mischief charge on someone. It just doesn't fit the description of the crime. I have seen the City of Logan court in action though and you have to be on top of your game. The city against persons who are not familiar with the law make for a pretty uneven argument. If you want I can meet you at smith's with while walking my HK and you could call in a complaint against me and see what they say. I just don't see them being able to get anything done without breaking the law.
9.16.120: [highlight= aqua]CRIMINAL[/highlight] [highlight= aqua]MISCHIEF[/highlight]; VIOLATION; PENALTY:
A. A person commits [highlight= aqua]criminal[/highlight] [highlight= aqua]mischief[/highlight] if:
1. Such person intentionally and unlawfully tampers with the property of another and thereby:
a. Recklessly endangers human life, or
b. Recklessly causes or threatens a substantial interruption or impairment of the public utility service; or
2. Such person intentionally damages, defaces or destroys the property of another;
3. Such person recklessly or wilfully shoots or propels a missile or other object at or against a motor vehicle, bus, airplane, boat, locomotive, train, railroad car or caboose, whether moving or standing.
B. Any violation of this section other than subsection A1 of this section, is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail up to six (6) months and/or a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000.00), if the actor's conduct causes or is intended to cause pecuniary loss in excess of two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00). If the actor's conduct causes or is intended to cause pecuniary loss of less than two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00), then such conduct shall be punishable by imprisonment not to exceed ninety (90) days or a fine not to exceed two hundred ninety nine dollars ($299.00) or by both such fine and imprisonment. (1989 Code: prior code § 12-13-1)
I just don't see them being able to stick a criminal mischief charge on someone. It just doesn't fit the description of the crime. I have seen the City of Logan court in action though and you have to be on top of your game. The city against persons who are not familiar with the law make for a pretty uneven argument. If you want I can meet you at smith's with while walking my HK and you could call in a complaint against me and see what they say. I just don't see them being able to get anything done without breaking the law.
UTOC-45-44
Regular Member
imported post
PISS ON HIM !!!:cuss::cuss::cuss
The Detective & Logan PD, I mean )
He is just saying that cuz he wants to be the only ONE that can carry a gun "CUZ I'VE GOT A BADGE" attitude.
This is a PREEMPTIVE STATE and OPEN CARRY WITH OR WITHOUT PERMIT IS ALLOWED. Where ever you can CCW you can OPEN CARRY
My.45
PISS ON HIM !!!:cuss::cuss::cuss
The Detective & Logan PD, I mean ) He is just saying that cuz he wants to be the only ONE that can carry a gun "CUZ I'VE GOT A BADGE" attitude.
This is a PREEMPTIVE STATE and OPEN CARRY WITH OR WITHOUT PERMIT IS ALLOWED. Where ever you can CCW you can OPEN CARRY
My.45
imported post
I just wish the cops knew that. I'm very interested to see what kind of response BCI got from the LPD.
You know just on a personal rant every leo I spoke with was apparrently a weapons retention jedi master, whose skill I as a mere civilian, could never hope to acheive. Not that they cared or asked, but I spent 4 years as Airforce Security Forces. The Airforce version of an MP. Part of that time was spent teaching you guessed it weapons retention!!! Unfortunately I had to turn in all AirForce issued knowledge and skill when I decided not to re-up in 2004. Rant off.
I just wish the cops knew that. I'm very interested to see what kind of response BCI got from the LPD.
You know just on a personal rant every leo I spoke with was apparrently a weapons retention jedi master, whose skill I as a mere civilian, could never hope to acheive. Not that they cared or asked, but I spent 4 years as Airforce Security Forces. The Airforce version of an MP. Part of that time was spent teaching you guessed it weapons retention!!! Unfortunately I had to turn in all AirForce issued knowledge and skill when I decided not to re-up in 2004. Rant off.
XD-EE
New member
imported post
I have been a visitor on OCDO for a little while now. I received my CFP not too long ago. I currently live in the Bear Lake area, but I am moving to River Heights (might as well be Logan) so I am interested in this thread.
I decided to join OCDO finally simply because the response I am seeing from Logan PD makes me mad. :banghead: I have not had too many bad encounters with LEO's , but almost every encounter I have had in Logan has been BAD (not even about carrying a firearm).
I have been a visitor on OCDO for a little while now. I received my CFP not too long ago. I currently live in the Bear Lake area, but I am moving to River Heights (might as well be Logan) so I am interested in this thread.
I decided to join OCDO finally simply because the response I am seeing from Logan PD makes me mad. :banghead: I have not had too many bad encounters with LEO's , but almost every encounter I have had in Logan has been BAD (not even about carrying a firearm).
UTOC-45-44
Regular Member
imported post
XD-EE wrote:
Yea...,them Badges in Logan seems to be a pain in the A$$.
We have a OCDO Meet in Salt lake. Here is the link.
OCDO Meet in Utah ???
XD-EE wrote:
1st.. Welcome and this site (www.openacrry.org) is very insiteful and helpful EVERYBODY will always help out to thwe best of their capacity.
Yea...,them Badges in Logan seems to be a pain in the A$$.
We have a OCDO Meet in Salt lake. Here is the link.
OCDO Meet in Utah ???
imported post
Hey, I spoke with Mitch Vilos today (of Utah Gun Laws; The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly." fame.) and he apparently is in the works of proposing a statewide open carry day. You can contact him for more information at mitchv@firearmslaw.com . Also he said that he has spoken to legislators who are commited to making the open carry aspect of the law "unquestionably clear" so methinks its about time for an email/letter to the editor campaign. In regards to Logan open carry, Mr. Vilos suggested that if one were to be arrested for open carry, one could sue for deprivation of civil liberties.
Hey, I spoke with Mitch Vilos today (of Utah Gun Laws; The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly." fame.) and he apparently is in the works of proposing a statewide open carry day. You can contact him for more information at mitchv@firearmslaw.com . Also he said that he has spoken to legislators who are commited to making the open carry aspect of the law "unquestionably clear" so methinks its about time for an email/letter to the editor campaign. In regards to Logan open carry, Mr. Vilos suggested that if one were to be arrested for open carry, one could sue for deprivation of civil liberties.
whiptrackercracker
Regular Member
imported post
Wow...That would be good news to hear from Mr. Vilos. The actions of LPD are going to catch up with them as they continue to act like gestapo agents. I know I am starting to count the days till I can leave. They get used to pushing around college students and heavily abusing their rights. It appears that the courts and the prosecution have their own corrupt agreements too from those cases that have been spent. The minute I see a clear open carry law I am going to copy that and the definitions of crimminal mischief and tape the whole thing to the cheifs door. They give all the good cops in the town a bad name when a bunch act so recklessly.
Wow...That would be good news to hear from Mr. Vilos. The actions of LPD are going to catch up with them as they continue to act like gestapo agents. I know I am starting to count the days till I can leave. They get used to pushing around college students and heavily abusing their rights. It appears that the courts and the prosecution have their own corrupt agreements too from those cases that have been spent. The minute I see a clear open carry law I am going to copy that and the definitions of crimminal mischief and tape the whole thing to the cheifs door. They give all the good cops in the town a bad name when a bunch act so recklessly.
imported post
I am a native utahn,though I moved to California in my early 20's. I had a 28 year security career there. I am also peace officer trained. I lived and worked In San Francisco. San Francisco is an anit-authority, anti-police city but SFPD is held in higher esteem by the citizens of that city than Logan PD is held in by the citizens of this city.Since retiring and returning to Logan I have heard more stories of abuse of authority in Logan than I ever saw or heard In San Francisco. I hope that this does not reflect on the majority of officers on this department but sadly seems to represent a large minority. I don't know the departmental law enforcement philosphy in Logan but from what I have seen and heard it's confrontational and "because I said so". In the end this will not serve the citizens or the police well.
I am a native utahn,though I moved to California in my early 20's. I had a 28 year security career there. I am also peace officer trained. I lived and worked In San Francisco. San Francisco is an anit-authority, anti-police city but SFPD is held in higher esteem by the citizens of that city than Logan PD is held in by the citizens of this city.Since retiring and returning to Logan I have heard more stories of abuse of authority in Logan than I ever saw or heard In San Francisco. I hope that this does not reflect on the majority of officers on this department but sadly seems to represent a large minority. I don't know the departmental law enforcement philosphy in Logan but from what I have seen and heard it's confrontational and "because I said so". In the end this will not serve the citizens or the police well.
scorpioajr
Regular Member
imported post
utsp101 wrote:
utsp101 wrote:
ScottyT
Regular Member
imported post
Wow! I just found the thread, not sure how I missed it before. It really sounds like I need to get up to visit my brother and friends in Logan a lot more! I wish gas didn't cost so damn much or I would be up there every other weekend.
These cops need to learn that they are to enforce the LAW, not their own egotistical opinions!
If it takes a false-arrest/civil rights violation lawsuit to teach them that lesson, so be it!
Print out my pamphlet and use it as an easy reference tool, but remember that if you get into a discussion with a cop, don't use the pamphlet -- you should show them that you know the applicable laws for yourself (memorize them!).
http://www.thegreshams.net/ucc.com/Utah Gun Law.pdf
It also sounds like the Logan guys especially need to be armed with voice recorders and witnesses!
OC Party in Logan!
Wow! I just found the thread, not sure how I missed it before. It really sounds like I need to get up to visit my brother and friends in Logan a lot more! I wish gas didn't cost so damn much or I would be up there every other weekend.
These cops need to learn that they are to enforce the LAW, not their own egotistical opinions!
If it takes a false-arrest/civil rights violation lawsuit to teach them that lesson, so be it!
Print out my pamphlet and use it as an easy reference tool, but remember that if you get into a discussion with a cop, don't use the pamphlet -- you should show them that you know the applicable laws for yourself (memorize them!).
http://www.thegreshams.net/ucc.com/Utah Gun Law.pdf
It also sounds like the Logan guys especially need to be armed with voice recorders and witnesses!
OC Party in Logan!
ScottyT
Regular Member
imported post
Back from the bathroom and I thought of another thing!
Cop: "Not banning it outright was just an oversight and it is only OK in rural areas..."
Me: "Well if that is the way you FEEL, you should vote for legislators who are willing to restrict the civil rights of Utah citizens, but until then, I will obey the law as it is written."
Back from the bathroom and I thought of another thing!
This part really pisses me off the most. You have here cops trying to interpret what legislators "meant to do" or "forgot to do". I thought of a good response to this approach:
Cop: "Not banning it outright was just an oversight and it is only OK in rural areas..."
Me: "Well if that is the way you FEEL, you should vote for legislators who are willing to restrict the civil rights of Utah citizens, but until then, I will obey the law as it is written."
Cykaos
Opt-Out Members
imported post
UTOC-45-44
Regular Member
imported post
ScottyT wrote:
Scott, maybe you can scoot up therer with you scooter:lol:...:celebrate.
Loooong trip but cheap gas
TJ
ScottyT wrote:
Scott, maybe you can scoot up therer with you scooter:lol:...:celebrate.
Loooong trip but cheap gas
TJ