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Thread: Student "accidentally" takes guns to school

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    Sucks to be him....

    He really should have known better. You should never store unsecured firearms in your vehicle anyway.

    And then.... to leave one of the guns loaded too. I hope there was no round in the chamber.

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    Here's the school principal's email (noon today) to parents on the event:
    On Friday, April 27, during a routine patrol of our parking lots, one of our security officers noticed a box of ammunition in a student vehicle. We immediately notified the Spotsylvania Sheriff's Office and searched the vehicle. Inside the vehicle we foundone rifle, one shotgun, ammunition,two paintball guns, and a knife. The studentwho drove the vehicleto school was arrested by the deputies for having weapons on school property. No threats or other indicators of the student planning anything with theweapons was made or found. The student stated that he had been target practicing the previous day and forgot the weapons were in his vehicle. I credit our security procedures and the vigilance of the security officer for the discovery of these items on the MHS campus. While we constantly monitor the entire school campus every day, we will continue to remain at a high level of security to keep our students and staff safe. I believe this was an isolated incident and is no cause for alarm for the MHS community.
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sucks to be him....

    He really should have known better. You should never store unsecured firearms in your vehicle anyway.

    And then.... to leave one of the guns loaded too. I hope there was no round in the chamber.
    Why am I not surprised to hear this coming from a LEO? You do realize that most of us do not have the super citizen status that you have which allows you to remain protected at all times. I read somewhere that it was a right but I guess I missed the part that specified that you have to have super citizen class for it to apply. So tell me mister super citizen why do I have to leave my protection behind if I visit a school? A restaurant that serves alcohol? A post office? Do I really need to continue?
    Why do I have to worry about the undefendable safety of my family when in certain areas and you don't? How do I explain to my children that I can not provide for their protection because I am not of a certain class of citizen in a free nation? How do I explain to my children that they can not provide for their own protection because they are neither of the proper arbatrary age nor of a certain class of citizen?

    Take your time...


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    rlh2005 wrote:
    Here's the school principal's email (noon today) to parents on the event:
    On Friday, April 27, during a routine patrol of our parking lots, one of our security officers noticed a box of ammunition in a student vehicle. We immediately notified the Spotsylvania Sheriff's Office and searched the vehicle. Inside the vehicle we foundone rifle, one shotgun, ammunition,two paintball guns, and a knife. The studentwho drove the vehicleto school was arrested by the deputies for having weapons on school property. No threats or other indicators of the student planning anything with theweapons was made or found. The student stated that he had been target practicing the previous day and forgot the weapons were in his vehicle. I credit our security procedures and the vigilance of the security officer for the discovery of these items on the MHS campus. While we constantly monitor the entire school campus every day, we will continue to remain at a high level of security to keep our students and staff safe. I believe this was an isolated incident and is no cause for alarm for the MHS community.
    Sounds like sloppy gun handling, especially in leaving an unsecured loaded shotgun in the truck.There's no defending that. Doesn't anyone teach these kids practical safety anymore?

    I am a concerned about the search, though. Did they break into the truck to do it? Is that legal? If they did break into the truck and it is legal, why didn't they just go grab the kid and get him to open it up?

    Either way, the kid is just a goof with a gun. Negative kudos to him. Reflects badly on normal gun owners and carriers.


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    Toad wrote:
    Why am I not surprised to hear this coming from a LEO? You do realize that most of us do not have the super citizen status that you have which allows you to remain protected at all times. I read somewhere that it was a right but I guess I missed the part that specified that you have to have super citizen class for it to apply. So tell me mister super citizen why do I have to leave my protection behind if I visit a school? A restaurant that serves alcohol? A post office? Do I really need to continue?
    Why do I have to worry about the undefendable safety of my family when in certain areas and you don't? How do I explain to my children that I can not provide for their protection because I am not of a certain class of citizen in a free nation? How do I explain to my children that they can not provide for their own protection because they are neither of the proper arbatrary age nor of a certain class of citizen?

    Take your time...
    Why are you directing your rant at someone who is tasked with enforcing the law, and not at someone who is tasked with changing it?

    While I agree that the Gun Free Zones don't really work and that most of us law-abiding lawfully-concealed-handgun carriers are not going to start shooting in the presence of alcohol or children (i.e. restaurants and schools), I don't think complaining to the LEOs is really going to fix anything.

    If you're that concerned about it, you oughtta write your representative.

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    Toad wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sucks to be him....

    He really should have known better. You should never store unsecured firearms in your vehicle anyway.

    And then.... to leave one of the guns loaded too. I hope there was no round in the chamber.
    Why am I not surprised to hear this coming from a LEO? You do realize that most of us do not have the super citizen status that you have which allows you to remain protected at all times. I read somewhere that it was a right but I guess I missed the part that specified that you have to have super citizen class for it to apply. So tell me mister super citizen why do I have to leave my protection behind if I visit a school? A restaurant that serves alcohol? A post office? Do I really need to continue?
    Why do I have to worry about the undefendable safety of my family when in certain areas and you don't? How do I explain to my children that I can not provide for their protection because I am not of a certain class of citizen in a free nation? How do I explain to my children that they can not provide for their own protection because they are neither of the proper arbatrary age nor of a certain class of citizen?

    Take your time...
    Are you kidding me!? Youwant me to justify Virginia law to you when I had nothing to do with its creation?

    You have almost as many rights as I do when it comes to packing a gun. I can carry in the courthouse, a school, and places that serve alcohol. You get to carry any gun you want whileI am limited to only what I am issued. So let's call it even.

    I may be exempt for a few places but that is only based on my occupation. It has nothing to do with me personally. I am no more super human than you are. You should alsorefrain from making such comments in the future if you want to have an open discussion. It really was uncalled for and I find it to bechildish.

    Why are you even referencing a class of citizen? All classes are permitted to go armedequally. Are you suggesting that my class is actually higher based solely on my occupation? This is absurd.

    I am exempt because I have passed an extensive background check, a polygraph, an 8 hour mental evaluation, and attended six months oftraining to include firearms. I also maintain 80 hours of training every two years that include legal updates.

    What exactly have you done to show the State that you can be trusted? You made it thru a state background check and were permitted to actually buy a handgun.

    So don't blame me or any other LEO forthe State restricting where you can go while armed. Somebody did something stupid in the past that caused the law to be created. Just like Cho causing the Governor to pass a law to report dangerous people to the state.

    Finally, you are not required to visit any establishment where you must go unarmed. That is your personal choice you make freely.Furthermore, you do not need to report anything to your children regarding state laws preventing you from being armed. They probably do not care anyway.

    So in closing... do not blame a LEO for restrictions the State has placed on you.

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    kle wrote:
    Toad wrote:
    Why am I not surprised to hear this coming from a LEO? You do realize that most of us do not have the super citizen status that you have which allows you to remain protected at all times. I read somewhere that it was a right but I guess I missed the part that specified that you have to have super citizen class for it to apply. So tell me mister super citizen why do I have to leave my protection behind if I visit a school? A restaurant that serves alcohol? A post office? Do I really need to continue?
    Why do I have to worry about the undefendable safety of my family when in certain areas and you don't? How do I explain to my children that I can not provide for their protection because I am not of a certain class of citizen in a free nation? How do I explain to my children that they can not provide for their own protection because they are neither of the proper arbatrary age nor of a certain class of citizen?

    Take your time...
    Why are you directing your rant at someone who is tasked with enforcing the law, and not at someone who is tasked with changing it?

    While I agree that the Gun Free Zones don't really work and that most of us law-abiding lawfully-concealed-handgun carriers are not going to start shooting in the presence of alcohol or children (i.e. restaurants and schools), I don't think complaining to the LEOs is really going to fix anything.

    If you're that concerned about it, you oughtta write your representative
    Representative do not listen or act and I have hundreds of pages of letters I have sent (yes I save them all so I can pair them up with the very few response and they also work good for future reference). The people that enforce the law can refuse to support and enforce bad legislation, in effect nullifying it. Laws are only as good as the enforcement they receive.
    However, being a LEO doesn't make one any better than the rest of us especially to the point of receiving special rights, which was the point of my post.

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    Toad wrote:
    However, being a LEO doesn't make one any better than the rest of us especially to the point of receiving special rights, which was the point of my post.

    How is that the point of your prior post? Isn't this thread about a goof with a gun who left a loaded shotgun in his truck in a school parking lot?

    LEO 229 said:

    "He really should have known better. You should never store unsecured firearms in your vehicle anyway.

    And then.... to leave one of the guns loaded too..."



    What is wrong with that position, Toad? Seems reasonable to me. What is itabout LEO 229's statement that is wrong in your opinion?



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    HankT wrote:
    I am a concerned about the search, though. Did they break into the truck to do it? Is that legal? If they did break into the truck and it is legal, why didn't they just go grab the kid and get him to open it up?
    Man, the CEO of my company came by on the 17th (the day after Virginia Tech) to console me and tell me of how school was back in his day--each student at his college (in Texas) had at least a rifle and a handgun...and they'd wear the pistols to class! And back in the day, whenever someone got hotheaded and started a fight, apparently, no one ever thought to go for their guns--it was all fists and grappling, and after it was over, everyone got up and went home.

    Truly a different era.

    ---

    I suspect the "probable cause" thing came into play when the kid's vehicle was searched, brought on by the box of ammo on his front seat.

    I agree, though, the kid should have known better.

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    Toad wrote:
    Representative do not listen or act and I have hundreds of pages of letters I have sent (yes I save them all so I can pair them up with the very few response and they also work good for future reference). The people that enforce the law can refuse to support and enforce bad legislation, in effect nullifying it. Laws are only as good as the enforcement they receive.
    However, being a LEO doesn't make one any better than the rest of us especially to the point of receiving special rights, which was the point of my post.
    So you think I am going to overlook you in violation of the law? What shall we overlook next? How about Date Rape? She said NO! But we all know she was asking for it.

    It is true... I "could" overlook any law it I wanted to. I do not have to arrest anyone and can let them go. I am here for the people and swore an oath to uphold the laws of this State. That means ALL OF THEM. I am not about to overlook some because you failed to getthem changed.

    I am no better than any other citizen. I receive no "Special Rights" either. I am exempt by state code so that I may do my job.A LEO is expected to take enforcement action on duty and off duty. Therefore, a LEO needs to be armed in more locations so that they may continue to protect the community.

    I am allowed to run red traffic signals and stop signs. Do you feel that this "special right" given to me by state code should be granted to everyone?



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    kle wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    I am a concerned about the search, though. Did they break into the truck to do it? Is that legal? If they did break into the truck and it is legal, why didn't they just go grab the kid and get him to open it up?
    Man, the CEO of my company came by on the 17th (the day after Virginia Tech) to console me and tell me of how school was back in his day--each student at his college (in Texas) had at least a rifle and a handgun...and they'd wear the pistols to class! And back in the day, whenever someone got hotheaded and started a fight, apparently, no one ever thought to go for their guns--it was all fists and grappling, and after it was over, everyone got up and went home.

    Truly a different era.

    ---

    I suspect the "probable cause" thing came into play when the kid's vehicle was searched, brought on by the box of ammo on his front seat.

    I agree, though, the kid should have known better.
    I did question seeing the ammo as justification to search the vehicle but one can easily conclude where you have ammo... your going to probably have a gun to go with it. I am sure the school rules having something about ammo as well as guns.

    Times really have changed. Back in the day.. we would fist fight and be done with it. Now-a-ways.... Shoot first!

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I am allowed to run red traffic signals and stop signs.
    Betcha that comes in handy when the Hot Light goes on at KK....



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    HankT wrote:
    Toad wrote:
    However, being a LEO doesn't make one any better than the rest of us especially to the point of receiving special rights, which was the point of my post.

    How is that the point of your prior post? Isn't this thread about a goof with a gun who left a loaded shotgun in his truck in a school parking lot?

    LEO 229 said:

    "He really should have known better. You should never store unsecured firearms in your vehicle anyway.

    And then.... to leave one of the guns loaded too..."



    What is wrong with that position, Toad? Seems reasonable to me. What is itabout LEO 229's statement that is wrong in your opinion?

    I really do feel for the kid.. I am sure it was an honest mistake.

    But if your going to own and posses guns... you better be responsible and know the laws. It should have been a normal routine for him to remove all the guns from his vehicle and lock them up in the house after the range.

    How you can just "Forget" they were in there and go to school the next dayseems suspicious to me. Then... to have one of the guns be loaded!! Did he leave the range with a loaded gun?

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    HankT wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I am allowed to run red traffic signals and stop signs.
    Betcha that comes in handy when the Hot Light goes on at KK....

    Even more when your headed back to the station and they are hot and fresh!!

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    But if your going to own and posses guns... you better be responsible and know the laws. It should have been a normal routine for him to remove all the guns from his vehicle and lock them up in the house after the range.

    How you can just "Forget" they were in there and go to school the next dayseems suspicious to me. Then... to have one of the guns be loaded!! Did he leave the range with a loaded gun?
    See, this is why the Phillip Thompson/Jim Webb decision to drop the Capitol security gun charge was so bad. Every Tom, Dick and kid who ends up ina jam by similarly mishandling loaded weapons in security zones also feels entitled togetting a break.

    Even if 99.9% of the violators get rightfully punished, each new violator will point to the Thompson/Webb case as a precedent/justification. It breeds disrespect for the gun laws.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I am allowed to run red traffic signals and stop signs.
    Betcha that comes in handy when the Hot Light goes on at KK....

    Even more when your headed back to the station and they are hot and fresh!!
    There are even faster methods....

    Monday October 8, 2001

    ALBUQUERQUE (Reuters) - An Albuquerque policeman and his pilot face
    disciplinary measures after using a police helicopter this week to
    swoop in for a midnight snack of doughnuts, officials said on Friday.

    The officer and the civilian pilot were on night patrol over the city
    in a Kiowa OH-58 helicopter when they landed in a vacant lot next to a
    Krispy Kreme doughnut store around 1 a.m. on Thursday morning.

    ``The contracted pilot and a police officer landed the copter early in
    the morning, ran in and grabbed a dozen, came back out and took off,''
    Albuquerque Police Department spokesman Brian McCutcheon said.

    ``I don't know whose brain child it was, but it's quite an ugly
    child,'' he said.

    McCutcheon said the event was being investigated as a possible misuse
    of city funds as well as for safety reasons, although he added there
    was no specific protocol for this case because it had ever happened
    before.

    ``We've been given no reasonable excuse as to why they would even
    think they could do this. But there could be some very serious
    ramifications,'' he said.

    An eyewitness told the Albuquerque Journal that he saw the APD
    helicopter circle the Krispy Kreme and land in a nearby dirt field.

    ``I was angry, and I'm still kind of angry. That's my tax dollars,
    your tax dollars. You've got no business flying in to get doughnuts,''
    said Keith Turner, who works nearby and was taking a smoke break when
    he saw the chopper swoop in,

    The cost to the department of running a Kiowa, including fuel and
    maintenance, is $80 an hour, McCutcheon said.

    A Krispy Kreme employee who asked not to be identified said he didn't
    see why people were making a big deal of the unusual doughnut run.

    ``Cops got to eat, too,'' he said.


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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sucks to be him....

    He really should have known better. You should never store unsecured firearms in your vehicle anyway.

    And then.... to leave one of the guns loaded too. I hope there was no round in the chamber.
    well, VA law requires students to secure their guns in vehicles, unloaded, while on school grounds. Too bad the shotgun was loaded - had it been unloaded, no crime would have been committed.

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    Correct Mike...

    Had it been unloaded... He would have been OK as far as state law is concerned. But School policy prohibits weapons on the property and now he gets a 10 day suspension.



    § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon or taser as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

    The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I am allowed to run red traffic signals and stop signs.
    Betcha that comes in handy when the Hot Light goes on at KK....

    Even more when your headed back to the station and they are hot and fresh!!
    Lies, cops don't share dounts at station, they pull into group of 3 and pass them around. Ever seen 3 cops in a parking lot? They are either sharing food or playing wireless PSP.



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    rabbit994 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I am allowed to run red traffic signals and stop signs.
    Betcha that comes in handy when the Hot Light goes on at KK....

    Even more when your headed back to the station and they are hot and fresh!!
    Lies, cops don't share dounts at station, they pull into group of 3 and pass them around. Ever seen 3 cops in a parking lot? They are either sharing food or playing wireless PSP.
    Actually.. this is true!

    The question is... how did you find out??

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    I thought I had read some strange posts on forums before, but how on earth can someone suggest that it is elitist for a LEO to be allowed to carry in some places that civilians cannot AND to suggest that LEOs should just ignorecertain laws and not enforce them? There are procedures for trying to change laws that we need changed and LEOs ignoring the laws on the books "ain't" one of them. I would think that the police chief would just fire the LEO that ignored the law and hire someone who would enforce the laws.

    When I read this kind of thing, I just think how much the anti gun crowd must love this stuff. It is totally irrational and only provides the anti gunners with ammunition to possibly say something like "Is this the kind of thinking that we want from someone walking around with a loaded firearm? That just shows that people should not carry guns!!"

    As for ignoring certain laws, that is just ludicrous. Do we really want LEOs to pick and choose which laws to ignore? Suppose your wife, mother, or sister were being raped and a particular LEO saw it and thought to himself, this woman probably wanted it so I'll just let it slide. Maybe another LEO will see someone being robbed and say, hey that guy looks like he needs the money, I'll just let this one pass. Possibly a third would see a murder and say to himself, an eye for an eye, this guy can go on about his/her business. Yeah, I know my examples sound stupid but how and where would one draw the line to the LEO's discretion to enforcement?

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    rabbit994 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:Lies, cops don't share dounts at station, they pull into group of 3 and pass them around. Ever seen 3 cops in a parking lot? They are either sharing food or playing wireless PSP.


    Oh....psp.... i like that! My pops is a medic on the Alexandria PD Spec Ops Team and i remember the first time i saw this "parking lot behavior." i was probably 12 and i aked him what they were doing and all he said was "food and air conditioning." i gave him a perplexed look and he said "it's what they are sharing with eachother." .....the air conditioning still cracks me up to this day.


    happy carrying


    Jason

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    I knew of two senior officers that would play chess. They placed the board between the two doors and moved the pieces. When one got a call.. the other would take the board and promise not to cheat.

    Most often.. officers chat with each other about cases or make conversation to make the time pass.

    You have the people who complaint the police are parked doing nothing... and then those that complaint the police are writing tickets.

    You can't win...

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    <snip>

    The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
    I have a question about "closed container" and the "includes" language. In this context does "include" mean "includes, but is not limited to" or "is", as in a "closed container includes, but is not limited to, a locked vehicle trunk" or "closed container is a locked vehicle trunk"?

    I ask this because according to part (vi) and (vii), if I'm reading this correctly, it would be legal tohavea concealed handgun (with permit) in the parking lot while in your car (covered by vii), and then to unload it and place it in a locked container (such as a gun safe) in your car (covered by vi). It would all come down to whether a gun safe would qualify as a "closed container".

    I know this doesn't have to do with the facts of the original situation but I saw the law posted and just thought I'd ask.

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