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Seattle REI, Tacoma Mall, and Tacoma:

Mainsail

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Apr 24, 2007
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Silverdale, Washington, USA
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We had some errands to do today up in Seattle but it was cool this morning so I was carrying concealed for a stop at Groundspeak HQ. The sun came out after that though and it warmed up so I left my jacket in the car for the REI stop. Few noticed the Sig P239 on my belt, and the ones that did said nothing. The woman in the shoe dept very slightly stuttered in the middle of her pitch, but recovered almost seamlessly. She really didn’t seem too surprised.



After that we drove back to Tacoma and the GF wanted to stop at Nordstrom’s to look at some shoes, and then hallmark for Mother’s Day cards. I looked very carefully at the door and there were no signs whatsoever at the Nordstrom’s entrance. I sat down in the shoe dept while my GF looked around. Another customer asked me if I was a detective or police, I said no and smiled. She thought it was a good idea to carry and suggested to her partner that she should do the same. He made a muscle and said “these are the only guns I need.” Whatever. A few minutes later a man approached, introduced himself as Nordstrom’s security, and flashed his badge. He was absolutely politeduring the entire conversation. He suggested that I conceal the gun, but I motioned that it wasn’t going to be possible with what I was wearing. He expressed concern that customers and employees might become alarmed by my open carry and would I please conceal it next time I was in the store. I never really answered.



Then it was out into the mall. I was sure he would have alerted mall security and they would be waiting when we exited Nordstom’s, but he apparently did not or they didn’t care. We walked down to the hallmark, passed a mall security guy, and into the card store without anyone noticing or caring. Admittedly, the P239 isn’t huge, so it is a little more discrete than, say, my Ruger Alaskan, but it is certainly noticeable. I also wear a spare magazine on my weak-side. My GF predicted we wouldn’t last one minute since Hallmark is notoriously anti-gun. The cashier in the Hallmark was friendly and didn’t seem at all concerned. Then it was back out through Nordstrom’s the way we came in. We made a few other stops in Tacoma along 6[suP]th[/suP] avenue without incident and then home.



All in all it was a rather positive experience. With the warm weather coming it will be nice to have the option to not conceal if I don’t want to.
 

compmanio365

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Apr 21, 2007
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Pierce County, Washington, USA
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VERY VERY COOL! :D To tell you the truth, Tacoma Mall was my one worry and something I haven't braved yet.

I have been open carrying around Tacoma for the last week or so though, so if you see another person with glasses, carrying a big ugly gun in a hip holster with a brown leather jacket, that's probably me......nobody yet has given me a look, except the lady in McClendon's HW @ Canyon Rd and 112th that rang me up the other day; she was staring at my .45 the whole time, but to her credit didn't say anything or even stutter.


Oh, and since it seems like there are a lot of people in the Tacoma/Puyallup area, if anyone wanted to get together for an open carry lunch or something one Saturday or Sunday around here, either at the mall or anywhere else, that would be pretty darn cool. I feel kinda weird being the only person around open carrying (my wife says it makes her uncomfortable that I do it, but maybe she wouldn't feel that way if I showed her it's more common than she might think....)
 

openryan

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Apr 18, 2007
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, Indiana, USA
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Why carry a gun at all? Take the advice from the guy at nordstroms, work out and your bi's will be the only guns you'll need.

Plus you'll save a lot on ammo.

Wonder why he showed you a badge since he is mall security, did you tell him its works better for scraping gum off of your shoe than to feign authority?
 

LoveMyCountry

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Oct 20, 2006
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Location
Ocean Shores, WA
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openryan wrote:
Why carry a gun at all? Take the advice from the guy at nordstroms, work out and your bi's will be the only guns you'll need.

Plus you'll save a lot on ammo.
I do hope that you forgot to put a smiley on the end of that statement.

LoveMyCountry
 

Mainsail

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Silverdale, Washington, USA
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openryan wrote:
Why carry a gun at all? Take the advice from the guy at nordstroms, work out and your bi's will be the only guns you'll need.

Plus you'll save a lot on ammo.

Wonder why he showed you a badge since he is mall security, did you tell him its works better for scraping gum off of your shoe than to feign authority?

Here’s my weekly workout schedule:
Monday; Run 4½ miles (45 minutes) at lunch. After work, push/pull the weights for 1½ to 2 hours.
Tuesday; Bike, rollerblade, or yard work depending on the weather
Wednesday; Repeat of Monday
Thursday; Repeat of Tuesday
Friday; Repeat of Wednesday
Saturday and Sunday; Long bike ride, yard work, and or (preferably) long wilderness hike

I don't know what crawled up your @ss, but I am in excellent physical condition. I also remarked that he was very polite during the entire exchange. Why would I be disrespectful towards him?
 

Mainsail

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Silverdale, Washington, USA
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Yes, I remember that conversation. I was curious to see if they’d ask me to leave. I didn’t spend much time in the mall proper, only the distance between Nordstrom’s and Hallmark, but I wasn’t approached by anyone. There are no signs at the Nordstrom’s entrance from the parking lot and none at the Nordstrom’s exit - mall entrance.



I wasn’t breaking any laws so I will probably OC the next time I have to go into the mall.
 

Mainsail

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kparker wrote:
I wasn’t breaking any laws...
Especially since WA doesn't have any sign/posting law, there wasn't any law for you to break. The most that could have happened is for someone to ask you to leave.
OK, I thought maybe you were implying that I had. I think we're on the same sheet of music here after all. :p
 

Mainsail

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Silverdale, Washington, USA
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My GF and I spent the entire afternoon in Seattle today, I was OC the whole time. We went into Pacific Place and spent a half hour or more there without incident. We visited at least a dozen stores all through the area, again without any problems. We walked up to Cheesecake Factory for lunch and then to REI so I could pick up a few things. On the way back I needed to duck back into Pacific Place to use the restroom and we entered the mall through the Barnes and Noble Bookstore. The rent-a-cop at the door saw the Sig but didn’t say anything, well, to me anyway. After I walked out of the restroom I meandered around waiting for my GF to come out. That’s when I began to notice them.



I think every rent-a-cop in the store was behind me in the periphery, not approaching though. I saw them huddled up so I walked closer and they immediately broke up, one dialing a phone. I heard him say, “This is XXXXX, I have a question….” When we walked out of the bookstore and into the mall area, I noticed a suit walking in but he didn’t see me right away. As soon as we entered the mall area we paused to get our bearings and the suit approached me. “Excuse me, are you law enforcement?” I tell him no. He appears very concerned and informs me that open carrying is NOT allowed in the mall. I let him know I was leaving anyway, and since I didn’t feel like arguing, we left. He said something into his sleeve and walked away. We went up the escalator and there was another suit at the top of the landing.



In hindsight I would have liked to have asked him if I was being asked to leave, as well as a few other things, but I was pretty tired at that point and it just didn’t come to me.
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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My GF and I spent the entire afternoon in Seattle today, I was OC the whole time. We went into Pacific Place and spent a half hour or more there without incident. We visited at least a dozen stores all through the area, again without any problems. We walked up to Cheesecake Factory for lunch and then to REI so I could pick up a few things. On the way back I needed to duck back into Pacific Place to use the restroom and we entered the mall through the Barnes and Noble Bookstore. The rent-a-cop at the door saw the Sig but didn’t say anything, well, to me anyway. After I walked out of the restroom I meandered around waiting for my GF to come out. That’s when I began to notice them.


I'm quite surprised that Seattle PD did not get involved in the situation. Needless to say I read it with quite a bit of heartburn. You certainly have a set of brass ones larger than I do at this point.

Still getting Seattle PD Training on the ball with this one. I should have an update soon.
 

Mainsail

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Silverdale, Washington, USA
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OK, here is my letter to them, and their response:

Good morning,



I was shopping in your mall on Tuesday and had an incident with your security personnel. Upon entering the mall I looked very carefully for any signs banning entry for persons with firearms but saw none. My girlfriend and I shopped in the mall for 45 minutes or so and then walked up to Cheesecake Factory for lunch and then REI for more shopping. During the entire time we were in the mall and the stores within the mall, no one approached me regarding the firearm I was lawfully wearing. Several customers and individual store employees noticed my firearm and none expressed any alarm or even concern. On the way back from lunch we returned to Pacific Place to use the restrooms and entered through the Barnes and Noble bookstore. As I was waiting I noticed several bookstore loss prevention personnel huddled and glancing in my direction.



We walked out of the bookstore and a man identifying himself as Mall Security approached and asked I was in law enforcement. I told him I was not. He informed me that mall policy does not allow for open carry of firearms and that I was not allowed to do so in the mall. I informed him that I was carrying in full compliance with the law and that I did not notice any signs barring the carry of firearms at any of the entrances or anywhere else within the mall. He again insisted that I could not carry my firearm on mall property. Since we had already finished our shopping and had only returned to use the restrooms, I let him know we were leaving anyway, which we did.



I would like to know the policy of Pacific Place Mall regarding the lawful carry of firearms within the mall. If this is a written policy I would like to request a copy of that document as well. As this is a topic of great interest to many people, I would like to hear from someone more ‘official’ than one security guard on the facts of this ban before I begin further actions.



Thanks for your recent comment. I try to answer these as promptly as possible, so sorry I am a little late. My name is Dennis and I am the General Manager of Pacific Place. We do have a policy regarding the carrying of firearms. While it is not posted, it is in our Conduct Code which details what is not allowed in the center and is available at the Concierge Desk. It is number 13 and simply states, “Possessing any firearm, whether licensed or not, anywhere on the Center premises,” is not permitted. The Security person was not in any way singling you out or questioning your firearms legality, they were simply enforcing our standard policy.



I am sorry if it cut short and / or ruined your visit to Pacific Place and I hope that it will not cause you to discontinue shopping here in the future.



Best Regards,





Dennis Zook

General Manager

Pacific Place

600 Pine St. Ste 228

Seattle, WA 98117

dennis@pinest.com
 

ConditionThree

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May 22, 2006
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Shasta County, California, USA
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Mainsail wrote:
Thanks for your recent comment. I try to answer these as promptly as possible, so sorry I am a little late. My name is Dennis and I am the General Manager of Pacific Place. We do have a policy regarding the carrying of firearms. While it is not posted, it is in our Conduct Code which details what is not allowed in the center and is available at the Concierge Desk. It is number 13 and simply states, “Possessing any firearm, whether licensed or not, anywhere on the Center premises,” is not permitted. The Security person was not in any way singling you out or questioning your firearms legality, they were simply enforcing our standard policy.



I am sorry if it cut short and / or ruined your visit to Pacific Place and I hope that it will not cause you to discontinue shopping here in the future.



Best Regards,

Dennis Zook

General Manager

Pacific Place

600 Pine St. Ste 228

Seattle, WA 98117

dennis@pinest.com

Oh- how I love the efficiency of the policy drone. Questions I would have for Mr. Zook, if I thought for a minute he would entertain answering them.

1) Your policy prohibits possession of firearms anywhere in your facility. Would I be correct that your security associates are fully compliant with this policy?

2) Since your security associates comply with this policy and assuming only peace officers are exempted, do you believe that peace officers are the only people armed with firearms without a visiably posted "No firearms" policy?

3) Without a visiably posted "No Firearms" policy, what enforcement practices do you have in place to discourage a patron who lawfully carries a concealed firearm or to detect anyone carrying any concealed weapon in defiance of your "No Firearms" policy?

4) Assuming you have no practices or policies to detect concealed weapons, either lawfully carried or not; How then does having an unadvertized "No Firearms" policy make your facility either 'safer' or 'firearms free'?

5) Assuming you chose to advertize your "No Firearms" policy, and still had no practices or policies to detect concealed weapons, either lawfully carried or not;Do you believe this would have any effect on those who were not lawfully carrying firearms in your facility?

6) Assuming that your security associates and those who lawfully carry firearms comply with your policy and the only people who have firearms while in your facility are peace officers, what policy have you enacted to protect your patrons when the police are not present to apprehend those who are not lawfully carrying firearms and intend to do great harm?

Ah- scr*w it. You just cant be logical with people like that- Im off to bed.
 

gregma

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Mar 27, 2007
Messages
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Location
Redmond, Washington, USA
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Mainsail wrote:
I am sorry if it cut short and / or ruined your visit to Pacific Place and I hope that it will not cause you to discontinue shopping here in the future.

In response.

Of course it will cause me to discontinue shopping there in the future. I will not patronize a place that chooses to impose on my rights as a citizen of the United States (see the 2nd Amendment). I also will not patronize a place that puts my life in jeapordy by only allowing criminals to arm themselves and leaves me as an unarmed victim. I suggest that you post a notice on all outside doors so that those who carry a firearm for self-defense will know immediatly not to shop at any of your stores. And so that criminals will know the mall is a target rich environment with no chance of armed opposition.

Thank You,
Greg

At least that's what I'd write...
 
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