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OC rule while sitting outside a restaurant

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LEO 229

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Tomahawk wrote:
This is one of the reasons I hate the retaurant ban.

Many indoor malls, such as Springfield, have food courts which sell beer. Does that mean the entire mall is off-limits to CC by law? If so, isn't that stupid...but whoever said gun control was supposed to make sense.
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IMO... I would not charge you for being in the mall in that situation.
 
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DeadCenter

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Citizen wrote:
Good points all.

DeadCenter, don't omit the early section of Virginia Gun Owner's Guide where it talks about the book not being a substitute for the law. If you look at the pasted statute higher up the thread, its worded, "...onto the premises.."

I think to really solve these fine-point questions, we'll need a real-estate atty.
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Well this is sort of my point about outside/inside. I take it as meaning passing through the door of the place serving.

I guess if they were to rope off an area then they would be claiming it as their's. And sitting at their table would be just like being inside?

I guess the OC Law were alcohol is served may not make sense. Sitting in the middle of C'ville mall or market place (not sure how it is referred to) outside would certainly draw some attention. I could certainly see people getting upset and teenagers making comments.

Funny thing is no one on here has said thy have open carried at this location since this thread started. Maybe if some have they can comment.
 
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DeadCenter

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Tomahawk wrote:
This is one of the reasons I hate the retaurant ban.

Many indoor malls, such as Springfield, have food courts which sell beer. Does that mean the entire mall is off-limits to CC by law? If so, isn't that stupid...but whoever said gun control was supposed to make sense.
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I am starting to agree. At first I thought it made since. Maybe not.

DC
 
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leprechaun117

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DeadCenter wrote:
I guess the OC Law were alcohol is served may not make sense. Sitting in the middle of C'ville mall or market place (not sure how it is referred to) outside would certainly draw some attention. I could certainly see people getting upset and teenagers making comments.

Funny thing is no one on here has said thy have open carried at this location since this thread started. Maybe if some have they can comment.
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I OC the downtown mall 3 or 4 days a week :) I did today actually, after getting off of work at the Pavilion (O.A.R. show tonight... woo hoo!)

In the case of Charlottesville, the "mall" is actually Main Street. It was shut down many years ago (20ish?,) covered in bricks and turned into a pedestrian only area. I have never had any issues out side of teenagers and homeless guys making comments along the lines of "wow... you have a gun... you think you're cool, don't you?" I've carried into The Pavilion for Fridays After Five (free concerts put on by the city every friday night... it's PACKED) and have never had a problem. I had one officer ask me if i was carrying a gun, I replied "yes" and he went on his way.

I would not hesitate to CC on the actual mall (if I had a CHP), but I would avoid entering any of the divided off sections for the restaurants. I look at it like OCing while walking past a church on a sunday morning... the sidewalknear the church isn't a "place of religious worship" just as the sidewalk in front ofa placethe serves alcohol isn't a restaurant.
 
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DeadCenter

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leprechaun117 wrote:
DeadCenter wrote:
I guess the OC Law were alcohol is served may not make sense. Sitting in the middle of C'ville mall or market place (not sure how it is referred to) outside would certainly draw some attention. I could certainly see people getting upset and teenagers making comments.

Funny thing is no one on here has said thy have open carried at this location since this thread started. Maybe if some have they can comment.
Click to expand...

I OC the downtown mall 3 or 4 days a week :) I did today actually, after getting off of work at the Pavilion (O.A.R. show tonight... woo hoo!)

In the case of Charlottesville, the "mall" is actually Main Street. It was shut down many years ago (20ish?,) covered in bricks and turned into a pedestrian only area. I have never had any issues out side of teenagers and homeless guys making comments along the lines of "wow... you have a gun... you think you're cool, don't you?" I've carried into The Pavilion for Fridays After Five (free concerts put on by the city every friday night... it's PACKED) and have never had a problem. I had one officer ask me if i was carrying a gun, I replied "yes" and he went on his way.

I would not hesitate to CC on the actual mall (if I had a CHP), but I would avoid entering any of the divided off sections for the restaurants. I look at it like OCing while walking past a church on a sunday morning... the sidewalknear the church isn't a "place of religious worship" just as the sidewalk in front ofa placethe serves alcohol isn't a restaurant.
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There ya go -I knew one of you down there has/does. Thanks for the reply.

DC
 
Hawkflyer

Hawkflyer

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hlh wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
I would kind of take Citizens approach. I don't think I would cross the street, but I would likely pull my cover garment up or back as I passed by. In any case I would not stop to visit with someone and stay CC.

Regards
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And then get charged with "brandishing".  :shock:
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Well not really. I did not say I would take it out and carry it in my hand. I would simply uncover it in its holster (convert from CC to OC).

This would of course also prepare me for drawing on the officer that wanted to cite me for brandishing.:what: After all if you are going to get charged, you might just as well be guilty.:lol:

Regards
 
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LEO 229

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I could use a few stats... can you give me some physical descriptions please? :D
 
L

LEO 229

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"Junior, remind me when I get home to slap yo' mamma!"

I am going to have to go buy those DVDs.
 
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swatpro911

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LEO 229 wrote:
DeadCenter wrote:

Now that the public sidewalk question has been brought up. I have to wonder if the law does apply. I am sure most, know what I mean about the Pavilion area in C'Ville (technically should be considered a street or side walk). As brought up in this thread, if you are walking through there, according to law you would have to serpentine your way through avoiding those tabledareas if carrying concealed. I think it is ridiculous an feel that I am being infringed upon by this requirement. I can understand it if I walk through a doorway and enter a bldg. But, not if I am outdoors. This walking area (side walk, brick street) should be common ground and not part of the establishments property. I am sure they are not paying the landlord rent on it. No rent, no lease, not yours.

If I look this up in the"VA gun owners guide". It reads "you cannot carry a concealed handgun "into" any restaurant or club where alcohol is sold and served for consumption on the premises.
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I own a business and the sidewalk out in front is mine to use as I see fit. I can place tables out there and do business if I like. I have two neighboring businesses that place tables and chairsout front where people can eat.

When we pay rent.. There are some areas of the property outside the actual building we do control. You could not set up a lemonade stand at my front door.

Now just walking thru the outside dining areawould be a technical violation. But as long as you did not sit down to actually be served... I do not feel anyone would charge you for CC.

And then.... what are the odds that you would be stopped at that moment walking past while CC. :D
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what kinda business do u own? Is it a restaurant? would like to pay visit. :p
 
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chiliman

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I'll come out of lurking here to add a bit of information.

Va ABC regulations require that any outdoor seating for a restaurant that serves alcohol must be gated or separated to their satisfaction from the public access. You must only be able to enter the seating area from within the restaurant or via a host if for instance their is a customer greeting area outside on the patio. Any place that serves alcohol and does not have this separation cannot permit their guests to consume alcohol in the outdoor area.

So passing by a patio area would not consitute being on the premises of that restaurant since you would be outside the barrier.

I don't have an answer for food court situations. There must be a different license for those establishments.


Randy
 
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Citizen

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chiliman wrote:
Va ABC regulations require that any outdoor seating for a restaurant that serves alcohol must be gated or separated to their satisfaction from the public access. You must only be able to enter the seating area from within the restaurant or via a host if for instance their is a customer greeting area outside on the patio. Any place that serves alcohol and does not have this separation cannot permit their guests to consume alcohol in the outdoor area.

So passing by a patio area would not consitute being on the premises of that restaurant since you would be outside the barrier.
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Cite?
 
L

LEO 229

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chiliman wrote:
I'll come out of lurking here to add a bit of information.

Va ABC regulations require that any outdoor seating for a restaurant that serves alcohol must be gated or separated to their satisfaction from the public access. You must only be able to enter the seating area from within the restaurant or via a host if for instance their is a customer greeting area outside on the patio. Any place that serves alcohol and does not have this separation cannot permit their guests to consume alcohol in the outdoor area.

So passing by a patio area would not consitute being on the premises of that restaurant since you would be outside the barrier.

I don't have an answer for food court situations. There must be a different license for those establishments.


Randy
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Ahhh.. Now that you mention that.. I do recall seeing this at outside places.
 
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