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Thread: "No Concealed Weapons" Signs...

  1. #1
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    Ok, so there's a 24 hour diner here in town that EVERYONE has eaten at at one point or another. I noticed last week that they have signs by their doors that say "No Concealed Weapons".

    Here in NC, open carry is legal without a permit, and concealed WITH a permit. Has anyone ever entered an establishment with signs banning "concealed" weapons while openly carrying? If so, what happened?

    I really want to go in their openly carrying, but I'm not sure how to approach it yet. Should I go by myself? Should I bring the girlfriend and kid? (people usually find that a LOT less threatening) Or should I get a few of the local OC'ers together and ask for a table for an armed party of four? lol

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    Well I would interpret it exactly as the sign says, No concealed carry.

    You could also call this particular establishment, as if they are going to be ******** about it when you get there, you could avoid a lot of trouble...

    But considering what the sign says, I think you alone, with the girlfriend, or with 3 other armed civilians would be perfectly fine, assuming they practice what they preach.

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    openryan wrote:
    Well I would interpret it exactly as the sign says, No concealed carry.
    Certainly a sign whichspecifies "no concealed carry" indicates an intention for prohibitionofpatrons carrying concealed. What I wonder about is whether a business which has such a sign would also intend or wish to prohibit open carry. My guess is that they would. The basis for my guess is that it doesn't make much sense, if a proprietor wished to prohibit (if he has the legal right) concealed guns in his establishment that he wouldn't want to prohibit all guns, including open carried ones.

    Does the business with such a sign just neglect to specify their rule for open carried guns because they don't think of it? Probably, I'm guessing.


    openryan wrote:
    You could also call this particular establishment, as if they are going to be ******** about it when you get there, you could avoid a lot of trouble...
    Calling ahead and speaking to the manager/owner to clarify sounds like a good approach.




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    If I had to guess I think they mean ' No firearms'. You would be within the 'letter of the law' but not the spirit. If the GF is understanding, I would take her and the kid. Then when the management tells you no guns allowed, leave and eat somewhere else. If they see dollar signs walking out the door they 'might' reconsider next time.
    Good luck.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    The only place in my neck of the woods that has a no CC sign is the hospital. When I was locksmithing and doing a lot of work their, I concealed anyway. Now when I go there it's as a blood donor so I strap on my 1911 and walk around like I own the place. No one says a thing about it.

    I agree with VAopencarry, do what they ask and if that isn't good enough, take your $$$ somewhere else. Be sure to let them know why. I had the owner of a Burger King become a little concerned about my OC'ing. I explained the why's and wherefore's of the law.Told him thatother corporations, notably Walmart, followed the state law and were fine with me carrying. Then I told him that he had the right to ask me to not carry in his store - but he would loose me as a customer if he did so. He thought about it for a minute and said that he wanted to keep me as a customer. No problems since.

    LoveMyCountry

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    DreQo wrote:
    Ok, so there's a 24 hour diner here in town that EVERYONE has eaten at at one point or another. I noticed last week that they have signs by their doors that say "No Concealed Weapons".

    Here in NC, open carry is legal without a permit, and concealed WITH a permit. Has anyone ever entered an establishment with signs banning "concealed" weapons while openly carrying? If so, what happened?

    I really want to go in their openly carrying, but I'm not sure how to approach it yet. Should I go by myself? Should I bring the girlfriend and kid? (people usually find that a LOT less threatening) Or should I get a few of the local OC'ers together and ask for a table for an armed party of four? lol
    If you carry concealed and there are no metal detectors and no one pat you down at the door, I say you should ignore the sign, provided that you are not breaking the law. As long as you're not printing or otherwise not in any way advertising that you are carrying, keep your piece concealed if that's what makes you comfortable. Here in Indiana I don't see very many signs banning the carrying of weapons, but the few I have seen (ie., at Methodist Hospital in Gary) I just ignore.

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    If you carry concealed and there are no metal detectors and no one pat you down at the door, I say you should ignore the sign, provided that you are not breaking the law. As long as you're not printing or otherwise not in any way advertising that you are carrying, keep your piece concealed if that's what makes you comfortable. Here in Indiana I don't see very many signs banning the carrying of weapons, but the few I have seen (ie., at Methodist Hospital in Gary) I just ignore.
    To be honest with you, I know someone very close to me that basically does that exact same thing. Like most state laws, NC doesn't make it illegal to carry a concealed weapon into an establishment with a sign, it simply states that the permit doesn't give you permission to do so. So, if it stays concealed, it's not a problem...and even it DOES become known, I'm breaking a private policy, not a law. No harm done unless I refuse to leave.

    My point for openly carrying is to make a statement. If I show up with a gun hidden in my pants and try to talk to the manager about their policy, they're not going to take it too well if I make the "well I'm armed and you don't seem concerned about me" comment.

    On the other hand, if I show up carrying openly, it allows them to make the first move. They can ask me to leave, and I can very politely and inquisitively talk to them about their policy, first making the point that their sign specifies concealed weapons, and then eventually trying to make the point that the more honest people with guns they let in, the safer they'll be.

    They also may very well not say anything. They may honestly mean no concealed weapons, and not have a problem with open ones.

    I've done this at a few establishments around here. So far, they've all been chain stores, and their reasoning for the weapons ban was "the guys at headquarters told us to because of insurance liability." This place is difference, since it's a privately owned local diner. It's also a hand-made sign (8.5x11 white paper with marker on it).

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    So, DreQo...

    How did it turn out? Or has it yet?

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    It hasn't yet. The place doesn't have the greatest food aroun, so it's tough convincing the girl to go there :-) She actually suggested we go there one night, however it happened to be a night that I was carrying concealed and I didn't have a belt holster handy. I keep thinking about it every time I pass that place, though...I'll get to it eventually lol.

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    DreQo wrote:
    It hasn't yet.Â* The place doesn't have the greatest food aroun, so it's tough convincing the girl to go there :-)
    Hah, sounds like a fool's errand then. Pick a good restaurant that doesn't like CC'ing to fight for hehehe, at least there's something to be gained/lost that way. > )
    -Unrequited

  11. #11
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    unrequited wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    It hasn't yet. The place doesn't have the greatest food aroun, so it's tough convincing the girl to go there :-)
    Hah, sounds like a fool's errand then. Pick a good restaurant that doesn't like CC'ing to fight for hehehe, at least there's something to be gained/lost that way. > )
    Oh, I don't know. I still think it is valid. Sounds like a small town and it may be the only 24 hour place to eat. I know I have been to places that weren't that great just because they were open.

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    DreQo wrote:
    If you carry concealed and there are no metal detectors and no one pat you down at the door, I say you should ignore the sign, provided that you are not breaking the law. As long as you're not printing or otherwise not in any way advertising that you are carrying, keep your piece concealed if that's what makes you comfortable. Here in Indiana I don't see very many signs banning the carrying of weapons, but the few I have seen (ie., at Methodist Hospital in Gary) I just ignore.
    To be honest with you, I know someone very close to me that basically does that exact same thing. Like most state laws, NC doesn't make it illegal to carry a concealed weapon into an establishment with a sign, it simply states that the permit doesn't give you permission to do so. So, if it stays concealed, it's not a problem...and even it DOES become known, I'm breaking a private policy, not a law. No harm done unless I refuse to leave.

    My point for openly carrying is to make a statement. If I show up with a gun hidden in my pants and try to talk to the manager about their policy, they're not going to take it too well if I make the "well I'm armed and you don't seem concerned about me" comment.

    On the other hand, if I show up carrying openly, it allows them to make the first move. They can ask me to leave, and I can very politely and inquisitively talk to them about their policy, first making the point that their sign specifies concealed weapons, and then eventually trying to make the point that the more honest people with guns they let in, the safer they'll be.

    They also may very well not say anything. They may honestly mean no concealed weapons, and not have a problem with open ones.

    I've done this at a few establishments around here. So far, they've all been chain stores, and their reasoning for the weapons ban was "the guys at headquarters told us to because of insurance liability." This place is difference, since it's a privately owned local diner. It's also a hand-made sign (8.5x11 white paper with marker on it).
    Sure you may only be violating a private policy, but someone who takes the time to post signage prohibiting the concealed or even open carry of firearms, probably will not take the time to confront you and as you to leave, especially if the sign is in a well known place.

    Most likely he would call the police and you would be a 'man with a gun'.

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    Well you should consider a few things before you do this. Clearly the owner of the establishment has given some thought to firearms in his restaurant. I think it is reasonable to assume that even thought the sign only refers to CC that he probable means any kind of carry, and probable chose the wording based on the wording in your statutes.

    There is a certain amount of respect due the property owner. It is after all his property and he has the right to prohibit firearms in his establishment. If as you say the food is not that good, that certainly reduces the benefits of stirring this up. Clearly from your posts that is your goal.

    While I understand what you are doing and why, you are going to have to be prepared to lie to this guy when he comes up to you and mentions your weapon. By that I mean you are going to have to willing to say to him that it never occurred to you that he ALSO meant Openly carried guns.

    While I agree in testing un-posted places for OC and even CC, I am very resistant to testing places where the owner has decided where he stands on the issue. That opinion is not driven by fear, or lack of support for our rights, but instead a very strong respect for the rights of others, and particularly the rights of private property owners.

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    I agree with Hawkflyer. If we don't respect his rights, we have no standing to insist he respect ours.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    openryan wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    If you carry concealed and there are no metal detectors and no one pat you down at the door, I say you should ignore the sign, provided that you are not breaking the law. As long as you're not printing or otherwise not in any way advertising that you are carrying, keep your piece concealed if that's what makes you comfortable. Here in Indiana I don't see very many signs banning the carrying of weapons, but the few I have seen (ie., at Methodist Hospital in Gary) I just ignore.
    To be honest with you, I know someone very close to me that basically does that exact same thing. Like most state laws, NC doesn't make it illegal to carry a concealed weapon into an establishment with a sign, it simply states that the permit doesn't give you permission to do so. So, if it stays concealed, it's not a problem...and even it DOES become known, I'm breaking a private policy, not a law. No harm done unless I refuse to leave.

    My point for openly carrying is to make a statement. If I show up with a gun hidden in my pants and try to talk to the manager about their policy, they're not going to take it too well if I make the "well I'm armed and you don't seem concerned about me" comment.

    On the other hand, if I show up carrying openly, it allows them to make the first move. They can ask me to leave, and I can very politely and inquisitively talk to them about their policy, first making the point that their sign specifies concealed weapons, and then eventually trying to make the point that the more honest people with guns they let in, the safer they'll be.

    They also may very well not say anything. They may honestly mean no concealed weapons, and not have a problem with open ones.

    I've done this at a few establishments around here. So far, they've all been chain stores, and their reasoning for the weapons ban was "the guys at headquarters told us to because of insurance liability." This place is difference, since it's a privately owned local diner. It's also a hand-made sign (8.5x11 white paper with marker on it).
    Sure you may only be violating a private policy, but someone who takes the time to post signage prohibiting the concealed or even open carry of firearms, probably will not take the time to confront you and as you to leave, especially if the sign is in a well known place.

    Most likely he would call the police and you would be a 'man with a gun'.
    Maybe, you didn't pay attention to the portion of my post that said that "as long as you keep it concealed." Concealed means concealed, and if there are no metal detectors posted, and you don't print or in any way reveal that you're carrying, how is anyone going to know? How are they going to call the police on you if they can't see that you're carrying? That's why I advocate just ignoring such signs, provided that the person carrying is able to go completely undetectable.

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    DreQo wrote:
    They may honestly mean no concealed weapons, and not have a problem with open ones.
    I'm curious about this aspect, too. Perhaps the owner shares the sentiment that concealing a firearm rather than carrying it openly has an aura of suspicion around it... i.e. a person CCing is trying to hide his purpose for carrying a gun.

    Just a thought.

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    I'd go in there open and if they say anything, just point to the sign and say "It is not concealed. There is no sign banning open carry." I always laugh when i see the little window signs banning Baretta 92s(ya know the silhouette baretta with the red slash thru it). I think to myself, i have a 1911 so i'm ok.

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    arjppj wrote:
    I'd go in there open and if they say anything, just point to the sign and say "It is not concealed. There is no sign banning open carry." I always laugh when i see the little window signs banning Baretta 92s(ya know the silhouette baretta with the red slash thru it). I think to myself, i have a 1911 so i'm ok.
    Do me a favor and also disclaim membership in any 2A rights groups.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    My school has one of those no Berreta signs they mustlike glocks or something.

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    I would guess that 90% of the people in the US without arresting power do not know the difference between concealed and open carrying. The 10% that do are carriers.

    When I first open carried with my non-gun friends I didn't have a conceal permit and they told me 'Uh, you should conceal that.' Of course, I told them if I untucked my shirt and did that, it'd be breaking the law. I've also come across security guards (No one that has any real authority) that don't have a clue about the difference.

    My guess would be that someone told him to put 'concealed' on there or he just looked up the carry statutes and saw 'concealed' and doesn't know the difference.

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    If I had to guess I think they mean ' No firearms'. You would be within the 'letter of the law' but not the spirit. If the GF is understanding, I would take her and the kid. Then when the management tells you no guns allowed, leave and eat somewhere else. If they see dollar signs walking out the door they 'might' reconsider next time.
    Good luck.
    +1

    It says "No Concealed Weapons", therefore, to me, that says "No CONCEALED Weapons".

    And, as VAOC said, if it's not just you, then that gives you a great answer for the "why do you have that?" question.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    The only place in my neck of the woods that has a no CC sign is the hospital. When I was locksmithing and doing a lot of work their, I concealed anyway. Now when I go there it's as a blood donor so I strap on my 1911 and walk around like I own the place. No one says a thing about it.

    LoveMyCountry
    Update: The last time I went to the hospital, they had added a no firearms sign. :X

    LoveMyCountry

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    Wouldn't the state preemption allow the carry of a firearm in the hospital?

    From the Oregon Revised Statutes:

    166.360
    ...
    (4) “Public building” means a hospital,
    ...




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    Jester, are you sure? I'd always believed that hospitals were private property.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Not sure if it varies by state, but the Oregon Revised Statutes states that a hospital is a public building. Of course there could be 'private' hospitals like there are private universities. But then again the ORS states that even a private school is considered a public building.

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