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Thread: CAUGHT RED HANDED - Virginia man arrests peeping tom at gunpoint

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    This story from last saturday

    Police press release

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Interesting. I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Virginians were not permitted to make citizens' arrests.

    Was my information incorrect?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Interesting.* I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Virginians were not permitted to make citizens' arrests.

    Was my information incorrect?
    Only for felony violations, committed in your presence. Even then you will likely get sued.

    But in this case I think the guy could logically claim he thought the guy was about to invade the home, so he stopped him.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  4. #4
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    Citizen wrote:
    Interesting. I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Virginians were not permitted to make citizens' arrests.

    Was my information incorrect?
    Hudson vs. Commonwealth (2003) (holding that "[a]t common law, a private citizen may arrest another for a
    breach of the peace committed in his presence. See Gustke, 516
    S.E.2d at 291-92; see also Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S.
    132, 156-57 (1925) ('In cases of misdemeanor, a peace officer
    like a private person has at common law no power of arresting
    without a warrant except when a breach of the peace has been
    committed in his presence . . . .' . . . The common law in Virginia permits a citizen to effect an arrest for a breach of the peace occurring in his or her
    presence").

    2. "A breach of the peace is an act of violence or an act likely [size=to produce violence." Taylor v. Commonwealth, 11 Va. App. 649, 653, 400 S.E.2d 794, 796 (1991).

    "Barrett nonetheless retained power as a private citizen to make an arrest when, as here, the felony had actually been committed and he had reasonable grounds for believing the person arrested had committed the crime." Tharp v. Commonwealth, 221 Va. 487, 490, 270 S.E.2d 752, ___ (1980).

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Interesting.* I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Virginians were not permitted to make citizens' arrests.

    Was my information incorrect?
    Hudson vs. Commonwealth (2003) (holding that [a]t common law, a private citizen may arrest another for a
    breach of the peace committed in his presence.* See Gustke, 516
    S.E.2d at 291-92; see also Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S.
    132, 156-57 (1925) (" 'In cases of misdemeanor, a peace officer
    like a private person has at common law no power of arresting
    without a warrant except when a breach of the peace has been
    committed in his presence . . . .' . . . The common law in Virginia permits a citizen to effect an arrest for a breach of the peace occurring in his or her
    presence").]
    [/size]

    2.* "A breach of the peace is an act of violence or an act likely to produce violence."* Taylor v. Commonwealth, 11 Va. App. 649, ][/size][size=653, 400 S.E.2d 794, 796 (1991).][/size]

    "Barrett nonetheless retained power as a private citizen to make an arrest when, as here, the felony had actually been committed and he had reasonable grounds for believing the person arrested had committed the crime."* Tharp v. Commonwealth, 221 Va. 487, 490, 270 S.E.2d 752, ___ (1980).
    ]
    [/size]
    Edited out some of the codes to make the post easier to read.

    More on citizens arrest
    And this from California state university
    On view on Constitutionality

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  6. #6
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    Thanks, fellas. I'll study up on these.

    I wonder where it fits in for a retail store clerk to hold a shoplifting suspect. (Which no clerk is going to do--he's only going to hold somebody he witnessed shoplifting.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Thanks, fellas.* I'll study up on these.

    I wonder where it fits in for a retail store clerk to hold a shoplifting suspect. (Which no clerk is going to do--he's only going to hold somebody he witnessed shoplifting.)
    The more minor the crime the more clouded the issue becomes. A strict constitutional view would indicate that so long as the crime is committed in the presence of the citizen, he could make an arrest even for littering. Moreover, the implication is that whatever reasonable force that may be required is justified.

    One of the cites above even uses this as part of the basis for the RTKABA. The theory is that a citizen MUST have the means to make a citizens arrest, and certainly arms would provide that ability.

    I think you will find some of the reading on those cites very interesting.

    Also look on the Constitution site for interesting reading on militias and training requirements. Some of that ties into our previous discussions.

    But you can still be sued in some places if you arrest someone and they are subsequently acquitted.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  8. #8
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    Okay, but should they have called the police and waited? Probably not, I doubt the kid was planning a robery, maybe he just wanted to see some @$$?

    But regardless, what else can you do, try to detain him physically? Then I think you would definately get sued.

    Nonetheless I think the neighbor did the right thing.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    openryan wrote:
    ...SNIP

    Nonetheless I think the neighbor did the right thing.
    Of course he did.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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