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Question on vehicle carry

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Art H.

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May 8, 2007
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Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and thought I would ask a question that I've been thinking about since I started to open carry quite recently.

I carry a 1911-A1 in a kydex paddle holster. Is it legal for me to drive wearing it or do I have to have the gun inbetterview? The seatbelt on my truck obscures a lot of it so what I've been doing is taking the gun and holster off and sitting it in the passenger seat. I'd like to be able to leave it on while I drive but I'm unsure.

Thanks
 
A

Art H.

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I apologize in advance if I posted this in the wrong area. I figure it relates to AZ laws but I just noticed some other areas where it might also fit.
 
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Armed4Life

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Assuming that you do not have a concealed carry permit, a holstered pistol on your right hip obscured by the seat belt could very well be considered concealed and you could be charged with weapons misconduct in AZ. I think it depends on the officer conducting the stop. In the absence of a CCP, I would suggest dashboard, passenger seat, or glovebox.
 
T

Texan

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I believe "NavyLt" is correct in that a gun in the glove box would be considered "concealed."

Best bet would be to let it ride "Shotgun" on the right seat.

I wear mine @ 3oclock and the seat belt doesn't seem to cover it that much, but I usually make sure it's in easy reach should the occasion arise.

I have been stopped by AHP before and it does not seem to be a problem for them, however the comment, " it depends on the officer" is a true statement.

 
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lostone1413

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Texan wrote:
I believe "NavyLt" is correct in that a gun in the glove box would be considered "concealed."

Best bet would be to let it ride "Shotgun" on the right seat.

I wear mine @ 3oclock and the seat belt doesn't seem to cover it that much, but I usually make sure it's in easy reach should the occasion arise.

I have been stopped by AHP before and it does not seem to be a problem for them, however the comment, " it depends on the officer" is a true statement.

In Arizona you can legally have a loaded firearm in the glove box without a CCW
Click to expand...
 
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Armed4Life

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The holster may not be visible at all to a LEO approaching the vehicle. Hence the possibility that the LEO may consider the weapon concealed.
 
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lostone1413

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Armed4Life wrote:
The holster may not be visible at all to a LEO approaching the vehicle. Hence the possibility that the LEO may consider the weapon concealed.
Click to expand...
I agree. In Arizona they have been getting LEOs from others state. Many come from unfriendly gun state like illinois and CA. To say they are jerks is an under statement. Best to get a CCW then you are covered
 
azcdlfred

azcdlfred

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NavyLT wrote:
Armed4Life wrote:
The holster may not be visible at all to a LEO approaching the vehicle. Hence the possibility that the LEO may consider the weapon concealed.
Click to expand...

I am really confused now. If the LEO sees it, how can he consider it concealed? Section 13-3102, Subsection F, "Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster which holster is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons which scabbard or case is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

Because of where the "OR" in bold is above, this law would tell me that a weapon in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage is legal, no matter where it is in the vehicle. This wording in the law allows a person who is legally carrying in a holster to get into his/her vehicle and drive without having to mess with his/her weapon at all - it does not matter if the holster is partially obscured by a seat belt or not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the whole point here was that we exercised our rights to carry legally. It doesn't matter what mistaken ideas or opinions LEO's have - what matters is that we are legal according to what the written law states and what any written and recorded court opinions regarding that law state.
Click to expand...

Check out State v. Adams and State v. Moerman

Back to the law - a gun in a holster in a vehicle in a glove compartment or map pokcet (not defined) is legal.

Wearing the gun or even having on the seat is a whole other matter. The courts said that "wholly or partially visible" means obvious under casual observation. Like someone pointed out. If the LEO can't see the gun as he approaches the car - it is concealed. It's his word the court believes. "Intent" is not an issue. Your opinion is not an issue. All that matters is if he said he saw it or not.

Because of the court decisions the LEO has tremendous latitude. 99% are fantastic guys and gals. But all you need is to meet the one that moved here from IL or NY or DC or the, as my nephew the reitred deputy calls them, "blue flamer" who realizes that arrests help his career.

We (AzCDL) got two bills to the governor's desk that would have ended this BS. She vetoed them both with a stern message that if you want to carry a gun in AZ, then you should GET A PERMIT. Is she a great governor or what? I've had many gun owners tell me how pro-gun she is and that's why they voted for her.

Fred
 
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