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Thread: 10 MAY WASH POST: "Va. Warns NYC to Stop Gun Store Stings"

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    REMINDER: The Virginia Citizens Defense League’s “Bloomberg-Gun-Giveway” celebration will be held at the League’s regular membership meeting at 8PM on Thursday, 17 May at the Mason Government Center in Fairfax County, VA, located at 6507 Columbia Pike, Anandale, VA 22003; for directions, call 703-256-8035. For more information, see http://www.vcdl.org, scroll down.
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    Va. Warns NYC to Stop Gun Store Stings

    TINY URL: http://tinyurl.com/yt39hy

    RICHMOND, May 9 -- Attorney General Robert F. McDonnell is warning New York to stop, by the summer, sending private agents into Virginia to look for illegal gun sales, saying that the agents could face legal action. Because of a Virginia law that goes into effect in July, New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg (R) and his agents could be charged with a felony if they continue to target Virginia gun dealers with undercover sting operations, McDonnell said. McDonnell (R) has sent Bloomberg what amounts to a cease-and-desist letter. "This was a courtesy letter to the mayor to advise him about a change in Virginia law of which he should be aware," McDonnell said Wednesday. Bloomberg's spokesman, Jason Post, did not seem shaken: "We wish Attorney General McDonnell was as aggressive in enforcing the laws that prevent illegal guns from getting in the hands of criminals as he was in enforcing the laws that protect the gun lobby." . . . Richard Gardiner, the store's attorney, says his client has "no connection" to New York's gun violence. He also accuses the investigators of tricking his clients into making the sale.
    "If anything, these dealers are the victims," Gardiner said.
    Gun rights groups are also furious, and this spring they persuaded the Republican-controlled General Assembly to intervene. The House and Senate overwhelmingly approved a law that says Virginia or federal law enforcement officials have to be present before such stings can be conducted. Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) signed the law in March.
    "This new law strikes the proper balance between ensuring proper law enforcement and protecting the rights of law-abiding firearms dealers and those of Virginia citizens under the Second Amendment," McDonnell, a possible Republican candidate for governor in 2009, wrote to Bloomberg.
    Mike Stollenwerk, a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, praised McDonnell's letter, saying he put "Bloomberg on notice."
    The league has also been holding a series of "Bloomberg Gun Giveaways" to support the dealers' legal expenses.
    Next week, at Fairfax County's Mason Government Center, "a handgun, a long gun, lots of ammunition, and other prizes will be awarded" as part of a drawing, according to a statement from Stollenwerk.
    . . .
    FULL URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/09/AR2007050902573.html





















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    A strongmajority of the comments on the Washington Post web-site in response to this article are anti-McDonnell and/or pro-Bloomberg and/or make fun of Virginians. Let's go to work!

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    AP has picked up the story too - new material:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...amp;SECTION=US

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    How can we get these activities happening in NC? I'm willing to help, but would appreciate some direction. I'm not assuming that it's easy, but I would like to set up similar programs like the gun giveaway. We have to make up for sending John Edwards to DC, even if it won't happen again.

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    It is sad that they knew information about illegal sales and decided to NOT tell VA LEOs. Instead.. they followed up with their own investigation so they could substantiate their claims.

    Not telling Virginia about it till later and allowing that dealer to continue to sell illegally.




    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050902573.html


    Moate's. In March 2006, New York sent a man and woman into the store to confirm its suspicion that the store was making illegal gun sales.

    "Once the male investigator selected a gun and indicated a desire to purchase it, the female investigator, who had not been part of the discussion, approached the counter to make the purchase," the suit alleges. The woman filled out the required paperwork, but then the man came and paid cash for the gun, the suit says.[/i]







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    LEO 229 wrote:
    It is sad that they knew information about illegal sales and decided to NOT tell VA LEOs. Instead.. they followed up with their own investigation so they could substantiate their claims.

    Not telling Virginia about it till later and allowing that dealer to continue to sell illegally.




    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050902573.html


    Moate's. In March 2006, New York sent a man and woman into the store to confirm its suspicion that the store was making illegal gun sales.

    "Once the male investigator selected a gun and indicated a desire to purchase it, the female investigator, who had not been part of the discussion, approached the counter to make the purchase," the suit alleges. The woman filled out the required paperwork, but then the man came and paid cash for the gun, the suit says.[/i]





    If I remember some of the older articles, the investigators and NYC refused to turn over any of the "proof" to VA or the BATFE. That doesn't seem right to me. Unless they were scared of it becoming public record - and not protected from use by others.

    I had two thoughts on this:
    1) No real proof existed
    2) It proved that they did something illegal that could them in trouble - lets say a straw purchase, or lying on the applications (Federal and State forms).

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    possumboy wrote:
    If I remember some of the older articles, the investigators and NYC refused to turn over any of the "proof" to VA or the BATFE. That doesn't seem right to me. Unless they were scared of it becoming public record - and not protected from use by others.

    I had two thoughts on this:
    1) No real proof existed
    2) It proved that they did something illegal that could them in trouble - lets say a straw purchase, or lying on the applications (Federal and State forms).

    #2 for sure.

    What they are alleging is that a dealer knew and allowed them to break the law. Since they were from out of state... conducting their own little investigation without BATF approval or knowledge... I believe they were clearly breaking the law.

    IMO... I would like to see the BATFcharge them both.




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    I think all (Bloomberg and his so called investigators) that participated in this so called sting should be behind bars on felony charges. If I recall from the first of the news that came about concerning this crime it was stated that the investigators were PI or some kind of private firm. So it would be safe to say that they were impersonating an officer. Additionally, don't PI's need to be licensed in the state they are actively performing an investigation; if so why are they still walking free. Also would Bloomberg not share responsibility for the crimes committed since he was the facilitator of the whole illegal operation. It just baffles me that the Bloomy bunch was given a free pass from the Feds and the States they invaded in their quest to dissolve the Rights of Americans. While in the question mood why didn't he get arrested for obstruction for withholding his concocted case files from the real law enforcement community? It almost appears that he has the support from the Fed and State Governments. Virginia seems to be the only one to pass a law against it but only well after the fact. This inaction allowed a large amount of damage to happen in the mean time. So much for VA being for businesses!

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    The BATF has settled on a stern warning to Bloomy and Co.

    I believe Bloomy is still up to no good here in Virginia....

    Last week, at a local gun shop, 2 private investigators came in and said they were working for 'someone in NY' and wanted to get some info on a customer. The shop owner told them not to let the door hit them in the ass on their way out.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    #2* for sure.

    What they are alleging is that a dealer knew and allowed them to break the law. Since they were from out of state... conducting their own little investigation without BATF approval or knowledge... I believe they were clearly breaking the law.

    IMO... I would like to see the BATF*charge them both.
    Somewhere I read that the people conducting the actual sting, were Virginia PIs hired by Bloomberg's people for this purpose. But even if you accept that they were Virginia Licensed PIs, they still violated the law as there is no exemption under Federal law for PIs to conducts such an investigation.

    So in fact they did break the law and are subject to all the same penalties as any citizen. So in fact if there is video of these transactions that would be sufficient evidence to put the INVESTIGATORS in jail. It may or may not implicate the shop owner as ti depends on what actually happened. In fact those videos might be exculpatory were the shop keep is concerned.

    So given all that, this explains why Bloomy is going for civil action and not criminal prosecutions. That plus he has no jurisdiction in Virginia to act on criminal violations. It is for this reason that the shops involved should fight this. To my knowledge there is no valid civil charge that can be brought on straw purchases beyond some form of negligence, and there must be somme showing of actual damages to have standing for such an action.

    So I doubt that any of these cases will see the light of day in court despite the filing of the civil actions. And any criminal action would likely start with the PIs.

    I still think that Bloomberg himself has acted in a manner that would support conspiracy to violate federal firearms laws, and charges of running an ongoing interstate criminal organization under RICO. There are also sufficient grounds to impeach him, for wasting valuable local resources to engage in an illegal trans-jurisdictional witch hunt.

    Regards
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Somewhere I read that the people conducting the actual sting, were Virginia PIs hired by Bloomberg's people for this purpose. But even if you accept that they were Virginia Licensed PIs, they still violated the law as there is no exemption under Federal law for PIs to conducts such an investigation.

    So in fact they did break the law and are subject to all the same penalties as any citizen. So in fact if there is video of these transactions that would be sufficient evidence to put the INVESTIGATORS in jail. It may or may not implicate the shop owner as ti depends on what actually happened. In fact those videos might be exculpatory were the shop keep is concerned.

    So given all that, this explains why Bloomy is going for civil action and not criminal prosecutions. That plus he has no jurisdiction in Virginia to act on criminal violations. It is for this reason that the shops involved should fight this. To my knowledge there is no valid civil charge that can be brought on straw purchases beyond some form of negligence, and there must be somme showing of actual damages to have standing for such an action.

    So I doubt that any of these cases will see the light of day in court despite the filing of the civil actions. And any criminal action would likely start with the PIs.

    I still think that Bloomberg himself has acted in a manner that would support conspiracy to violate federal firearms laws, and charges of running an ongoing interstate criminal organization under RICO. There are also sufficient grounds to impeach him, for wasting valuable local resources to engage in an illegal trans-jurisdictional witch hunt.

    Regards
    I agree.... He wasted tax payer money on this just to prove a point.

    The civil suit is just to get more exposure.

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