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Thread: Man Arrested for Open Carry!

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    This poor guy was arrested for disorderly conduct and openly carrying a firearm! 13A-11-52!

    http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/...?p=37443#37443

    If you Alabamians were looking for a little something to get fired up about, I would say now is the time.



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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    Morris v. State, 342 So.2d 417 (1977) IS THE MOST IMPORTANT CASE



    *417 Kenneth Cooper, Bay Minette, for appellant.
    *418 William J. Baxley, Atty. Gen., and Joel E. Dillard, Asst. Atty. Gen., for the State, appellee.

    BOWEN W. SIMMONS, Retired Circuit Judge.
    Appellant-defendant was convicted in the Circuit Court of Baldwin County, by a jury, on a complaint of the District Attorney, wherein appellant was charged with knowingly and willfully resisting a Lawful arrest by a duly authorized peace officer for Baldwin County, to-wit, James B. Johnson, a Deputy Sheriff. Recompiled Code 1958, Title 14, s 402 reads:

    ‘Any person who knowingly and wilfully opposes or resists any officer of the state or county or municipality in serving, executing, or attempting to serve or execute, any legal writ or process whatsoever, or who resists any lawful arrest, whether under process or not, shall, on conviction, be fined not less than fifty nor more than one thousand dollars, and may also be imprisoned in the county jail, or sentenced to hard labor for the county, for not more than six months.’

    The trial court fined him $250.00 and sentenced him to thirty days in the county jail.

    [1] This was an indictable offense thereby falling within the prohibition of Title 15, s 335, 1958 Recompiled Code:

    ‘In prosecution by indictment, the jury shall fix and determine the amount of the fine; and no judge shall remit or reduce the fine so fixed, unless he spreads his reasons for so doing in full on the minutes of the court.’

    See also our pronunciation inLoggins v. State, 52 Ala.App. 204, 290 So.2d 665, wherein we cited Melton v. State, 45 Ala. 56. We observed:

    ‘The Supreme Court in Melton v. State, 45 Ala. 56, in referring to s 3757, Revised Code 1867, (appearing now as s 335, supra) said: ’* * * although this case came into the circuit court by appeal, and was tried on a complaint, yet it is an indictable offense and in that court must be determined a prosecution by indictment.'

    ‘The instant offense being indictable, the trial court fixed the fine without authority of law. In doing so, the court committed reversible error.’

    We pretermit further discussion of this error.

    It is to be noted that this prosecution originated in the Inferior Court of Baldwin County where defendant demanded a jury trial. The court thereupon rightly or wrongly transferred the proceedings to the circuit court for attention. The record does not indicate that he was tried in the Inferior Court.

    The District Attorney, within the time allowed by law, prepared and filed an information to which no objection was interposed. This information charged the defendant with resisting a lawful arrest. The information comported with the statute, supra. However, the State failed to prove that the arrest was lawful. In fact it was not lawfully authorized because defendant was not carrying a concealed pistol. The State's evidence (Tr. p. 7) shows that the pistol was in a scabbard or holster, worn on the side and was not covered.

    We call attention to Title 14, s 175, Recompiled Code 1958, which reads:

    No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own abode or fixed place of business, without a license therefor as hereinafter provided.’

    It is to be observed that this law prohibits carrying a pistol (concealed or not) in any vehicle or ‘concealed on or about his person, except . . . without a license therefor . . ..’ It does not prohibit an unconcealed pistol. Acts 1956, 2d Session, No. 43, p. 336.

    It is immaterial that defendant did or did not have a pistol permit. He had a right to carry the pistol unconcealed at the time and place of arrest. Defendant was under no duty to submit to any other than a lawful arrest. Brown v. State, 109 Ala. 70, 20 So. 103, from which we quote:

    Tarwater v. State, 16 Ala.App. 140, 75 So. 816(2), citing Brown, supra.

    The trial court committed reversible error in denying defendant's motion to exclude the State's evidence when the State rested.

    In view of the evidence of the arresting officer, adduced by the State, we see no point in another trial. The judgment is reversed and the cause is rendered. The defendant is discharged.

    The foregoing opinion was prepared by the Honorable BOWEN W. SIMMONS, Retired Circuit Judge, serving as a Judge of this Court under s 2 of Act No. 288, July 7, 1945, as amended; his opinion is hereby adopted as that of the Court.

    REVERSED AND RENDERED.


    All the Judges concur.


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    Doesn't surprise me that Alabama Law Enforcement would treat someone like this. Southern law enforcement is heavy handed and they all think they are above the law. I prefer the freedom of Wyoming, Montana and Vermont. A Vermont policeman would not dare harass anyone for carrying. Even the ACLU office here in VT would be all over them.

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    vermonter wrote:
    Doesn't surprise me that Alabama Law Enforcement would treat someone like this. Southern law enforcement is heavy handed and they all think they are above the law. I prefer the freedom of Wyoming, Montana and Vermont. A Vermont policeman would not dare harass anyone for carrying. Even the ACLU office here in VT would be all over them.
    As a native Virginian, I have to take exception to that statement. Not all southern LEO's are heavy handed. Some have preconceived notions about people, particularly based on appearance. I have friends, guys I grew up with, that are cops here. They are even tempered, fair people. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. If I did what you did, I'd be calling you an arrogant Yankee. And don't even think about telling me that the home state of Stonewall Jackson isn't in the south. What has changed Virginia so much is the constant influx of furriners (read Northeners) into the DC metro area, and into the Hampton Roads (Norfolk) area. We're all still Americans though.

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    At what point do these usurpations equal the need for a force equal to or greater than that used in the First American Revolution?

    Yes I said "First" because, God willing, there will be a Second War for Independence....and soon.

    I was born 200 years too late.

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    Does anybody know 18 year old Mr. Victor Andrew Mathis from Opp, Alabama?

    http://www.andalusiastarnews.com/art...ews/news02.txt
    Man enters Wal-Mart with pistol
    By Stephanie Nelson
    An Opp man, with a pistol strapped to his side, walked into the Wal-Mart Supercenter on Martin Luther King Jr. Expressway Wednesday determined to exercise his Second Amendment Right to bear arms.

    Andalusia Police Chief Wilbur Williams said APD officers responded to the call at 2:20 p.m. of a man, later identified as 18-year-old Victor Andrew Mathis, who after attempting to enter the store with the firearm, got into a verbal altercation with store management.

    "He was observed by management when he attempted to enter the store with the pistol on his side," Williams said. "When store officials explained that if he was not a law enforcement officer he could not have a gun displayed on their property. As I understand it, he became very ugly and called store officials names."

    Mathis left the store but was soon located in the parking lot, still carrying the weapon. He has been charged with disorderly conduct and carrying a pistol unlawfully.

    "Mr. Mathis said he was an expert in the Second Amendment and it was his right to bear arms," Williams said. "It is (a Second Amendment right) on your own property, not on property belonging to someone else."

    A Wal-Mart spokesman said that the company wanted to thank local law enforcement officers for their help in resolving the situation.

    "We will always put the safety and security of our customers and associates as our top priority," said Sharon Weber, Wal-Mart spokesperson. "We appreciate the quick response of our store associates and local law enforcement."

    Mathis must now appear before the Andalusia Municipal Court to face the charges.

    .


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    Reporter's email link operative. Watch what you say, please.

    Anybody know this Chief of Police?

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    Well, now we have two utterly one-sided accounts with crucially vague descriptions ofthe events on May 9th. Which account to rely on? Well, not the Andalusia Star's version. That's for sure. And not the arrestee's obviously selective oneeither.

    Never trust an 18 year old who open carries while applying for a retail store job and who keeps a revealing MySpace page public for his potential (yeah, right) employer to look up. Nor one who lacks a clue or means to do anything about defending his case other than his call of"God bless America."

    I swear, though I believe fiercely in the RKBA, both concealed and openly, I just as firmly believesome of the practitioners of same run the risk of making it worse for the rest of us.

    Showing up to apply for a job, 18 years old,while open carrying.....<shaking head

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    HankT Wrote:

    Never trust an 18 year old who open carries while applying for a retail store job and who keeps a revealing MySpace page public for his potential (yeah, right) employer to look up. Nor one who lacks clue or means to do anything about defending his case other than his call of"God bless America."


    I swear, though I believe fiercely in the RKBA, both concealed and openly, I just as firmly believesome of the practitioners of same run the risk of making it worse for the rest of us.

    Showing up to look for a job, 18 years old,while open carrying.....<shaking head>.


    Maybe I missed something in this thread.....Hank what exactly is wrong with applying for a job while open carrying. Its Wal-Mart......to apply you don't even encounter anyone with a heartbeat, its all electronic. Or perhaps you have some secret intel that indicates that the bad guys typically choose to ignore the 18 year old kid looking for a job. I don't disagree with you that this story has some big holes in it from both sides but your statement contradicts itself. Would you stand by your statement if he was just an 18 year old open carrying while applying for a job at Wal-Mart who DIDN'T keep a revealing myspace page and chose to lawyer up immediately?



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    By his own account he admitted to being in his truck when the Officer pulled up. Unless he had a permit he was in the wrong. No carry in vehicle is allowed unless one is licensed to carry. Not once, that I see, did he say he was licensed. He simply says he was carrying it openinstead of an IWB which isa common place for concealed carry.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    BobCav wrote:
    At what point do these usurpations equal the need for a force equal to or greater than that used in the First American Revolution?

    Yes I said "First" because, God willing, there will be a Second War for Independence....and soon.

    I was born 200 years too late.
    I think you are right , Bob, but I really hate to see it. I'm sure the Founding Fathers hated it too, but found it necessary. I have told my wife that if faced with an illegal arrest my conscience would dictate that I resist to my fullest capacity. She reminds me that I still have small children, as well as a grandchild. When I tell her that I would be doing it for them so they wouldn't have to grow up under tyranny, she says they wouldn't understand it if they lost their father. I always refer back to what Sam Adams said about "Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you..." I hope it never comes to that. I am afraid that we will be divided and conquered. There are too many who will stand back watching, hoping that they won't be next. I recently contacted ATF about some mods I wanted to make to a Norinco AK, just to have it on record that they were approved. My paranoid side says that I voluntarily registered my rifle with the b*****ds. What happens when they decide that my mods are no longer legal? They will come to my house, and they will kill me. How do I know this? Because I will not surrender. I spent many years trying to fly under the radar. This forum is the first time I have expressed my sentiments in public. I wasn't illegal, just trying to keep a low profile. I finally decided that was the chickenshit approach. I hope I won't regret it.

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    I have to agree with you..

    Something sounds fishy.. For one, in every town, any street name starting with MLK is trouble(what comic said that?), and two, you just don't go OC'ing while applying for a job.

    And if he had a permit, I'm sure the police would NOT have arrested him for carrying a weapon.

    I'm finally "Old enough" to not get any slack for OC'ing (31 and already going gray!) and with a kid in "tow", it doesn't happen... But 18 years old, you have to expect some resistance!

    HankT wrote:
    Well, now we have two utterly one-sided accounts with crucially vague descriptions ofthe events on May 9th. Which account to rely on? Well, not the Andalusia Star's version. That's for sure. And not the arrestee's obviously selective oneeither.

    Never trust an 18 year old who open carries while applying for a retail store job and who keeps a revealing MySpace page public for his potential (yeah, right) employer to look up. Nor one who lacks a clue or means to do anything about defending his case other than his call of"God bless America."

    I swear, though I believe fiercely in the RKBA, both concealed and openly, I just as firmly believesome of the practitioners of same run the risk of making it worse for the rest of us.

    Showing up to apply for a job, 18 years old,while open carrying.....<shaking head

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    HankT Wrote:

    Never trust an 18 year old who open carries while applying for a retail store job and who keeps a revealing MySpace page public for his potential (yeah, right) employer to look up. Nor one who lacks clue or means to do anything about defending his case other than his call of"God bless America."


    I swear, though I believe fiercely in the RKBA, both concealed and openly, I just as firmly believesome of the practitioners of same run the risk of making it worse for the rest of us.

    Showing up to look for a job, 18 years old,while open carrying.....<shaking head>.


    Maybe I missed something in this thread.....Hank what exactly is wrong with applying for a job while open carrying. Its Wal-Mart......to apply you don't even encounter anyone with a heartbeat, its all electronic. Or perhaps you have some secret intel that indicates that the bad guys typically choose to ignore the 18 year old kid looking for a job. I don't disagree with you that this story has some big holes in it from both sides but your statement contradicts itself. Would you stand by your statement if he was just an 18 year old open carrying while applying for a job at Wal-Mart who DIDN'T keep a revealing myspace page and chose to lawyer up immediately?

    What is wrong is that this young man got into an altercation, I seriously doubt the situation would have came to such a level if he just left like they asked, you cannot bring a gun on to others property and the ask you not to.

    Typically stubborn young adult, only this was the wrong time and the wrong place, and you certainly should not be getting into any verbal arguments like this while open carrying, at least ones that involve swearing and the like, this man seemed he was of bad character, and I do think action was needed to remove him, but this much action, I am not sure.

    Kids don't learn by saying no anymore (at least not most of them), so you have to do something...

    I am not saying open carry is bad in the least, i do it 100% of the time, but if someone were to ask me to leave, I would definately be on my way out, and so would my money

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    The place the guy messed is this: he expected to have his rights honored, yet refused to honor the property rights of others. While the manager of Wal-Mart isn't the owner, he does have control of the property. If he says leave, you leave.

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    Seems like a lot of posters are just reading the news story and not Mr. Mathis's description of the encounter included in a link on the first post. HankT made a very important point in his post "Well, now we have two utterly one-sided accounts with crucially vague descriptions ofthe events on May 9th. Which account to rely on? Well, not the Andalusia Star's version. That's for sure. And not the arrestee's obviously selective oneeither." According to Mr. Mathis, he admits to making a sly remark to his friend when first encountered, but indicates that he left when asked. I'd almost like to pay for the FOIA request for this one just so we can have a better idea of how this one went down.

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    He was not charged with criminal trespass.

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    From the young man's description (link in original post): "The officer told me that I was being charged with Disorderly Conduct because of the commotion that my arrest caused in the Wal-Mart parking lot and carrying a pistol illegally by violating Section 13A-11-52 of the Code of Alabama which states . . ."

    He also has very good explanations for why he was still there when the police arrived - the manager gave him permission to wait for his friend, who was checking out.

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    As for whether he had a license, he quite clearly states that he openly carried, instead of concealed, because of the weather. This means he must have a license, which means he is good to carry in the car. Note he was not charged with carrying without a license in the car.

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    One more point. The two stories do not conflict. The news story said he was asked to leave and got ugly and called the store personnel "names." His version states that they asked him to leave and he said the anti-Second Amendment Nazis must be in charge of Wal-Mart.

    It could very well be that both are telling the truth as they see it.

    Nowhere does it say that he refused to leave.

    The Andalusia Chief was not there, and his comments may not have much to do with the situation that occurred.

    Surely we have somebody from Opp on the site who knows this man?

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    Here's a great example of what all of the Alabama residents, myself included, who have posted on this issue have predicted would happen.

    Assuming the accused individual's story is accurate, his comments were inapprorpiate, but it is important to note that he was NOT violating Alabama law. The AG's opinion is very clear, and this might be the case we need.

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    openryan wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    HankT Wrote:

    Never trust an 18 year old who open carries while applying for a retail store job and who keeps a revealing MySpace page public for his potential (yeah, right) employer to look up. Nor one who lacks clue or means to do anything about defending his case other than his call of"God bless America."


    I swear, though I believe fiercely in the RKBA, both concealed and openly, I just as firmly believesome of the practitioners of same run the risk of making it worse for the rest of us.

    Showing up to look for a job, 18 years old,while open carrying.....<shaking head>.


    Maybe I missed something in this thread.....Hank what exactly is wrong with applying for a job while open carrying. Its Wal-Mart......to apply you don't even encounter anyone with a heartbeat, its all electronic. Or perhaps you have some secret intel that indicates that the bad guys typically choose to ignore the 18 year old kid looking for a job. I don't disagree with you that this story has some big holes in it from both sides but your statement contradicts itself. Would you stand by your statement if he was just an 18 year old open carrying while applying for a job at Wal-Mart who DIDN'T keep a revealing myspace page and chose to lawyer up immediately?

    What is wrong is that this young man got into an altercation, I seriously doubt the situation would have came to such a level if he just left like they asked, you cannot bring a gun on to others property and the ask you not to.

    Typically stubborn young adult, only this was the wrong time and the wrong place, and you certainly should not be getting into any verbal arguments like this while open carrying, at least ones that involve swearing and the like, this man seemed he was of bad character, and I do think action was needed to remove him, but this much action, I am not sure.

    Kids don't learn by saying no anymore (at least not most of them), so you have to do something...

    I am not saying open carry is bad in the least, i do it 100% of the time, but if someone were to ask me to leave, I would definately be on my way out, and so would my money
    The way you put it reminds me of several people who were hassled while OC'ing in a Pizza Parlor. Those guys must have been trouble makers too.

    Love My Country

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    I read the young man's side of the story. It's my impression that he is within his rights to do what he did. That said, I also feel that he is going to get screwed if he doesn't get some legal counsel. :X

    Maybe he could get some guidance from Zach, another one of those trouble making young men who are standing firm anddefending the same rights thatmany of ustook for granted. They are our future freedom fighters and I salute them!

    LoveMyCountry

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    I read the young man's side of the story. It's my impression that he is within his rights to do what he did. That said, I also feel that he is going to get screwed if he doesn't get some legal counsel. :X

    Maybe he could get some guidance from Zach, another one of those trouble making young men who are standing firm anddefending the same rights thatmany of ustook for granted. They are our future freedom fighters and I salute them!

    LoveMyCountry
    I have read both accounts, I cannot decide which one to believe, but you cannot stand up for your rights to carry by ignoring the stores right to refuse you to be able to carry a firearm.

    If indeed he made a comment, even if it was an eff you, or a 'you are a moron' type comment a lot of people could take that as threatening when you have a gun on your hip/thigh/whatever.

    Now if the comment was something along the lines of 'well i do not agree with your store policy, I will no longer spend money here' I could totally accept that.

    Again, I do not know which account of this altercation is true, but just my opinion of the matter.

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    What is wrong is that this young man got into an altercation, I seriously doubt the situation would have came to such a level if he just left like they asked, you cannot bring a gun on to others property and the ask you not to.

    Typically stubborn young adult, only this was the wrong time and the wrong place, and you certainly should not be getting into any verbal arguments like this while open carrying, at least ones that involve swearing and the like, this man seemed he was of bad character, and I do think action was needed to remove him, but this much action, I am not sure.

    Kids don't learn by saying no anymore (at least not most of them), so you have to do something...

    I am not saying open carry is bad in the least, i do it 100% of the time, but if someone were to ask me to leave, I would definately be on my way out, and so would my money
    The way you put it reminds me of several people who were hassled while OC'ing in a Pizza Parlor. Those guys must have been trouble makers too.
    I also thought of the Tony's 7 case. Not in terms of similarity but of contrast. In the T7 case there were 7 men who were going about ordinary business, met up with some flack from an individual, encountered tons of flack from the horde of LEOs who arrived and tried various means to misinterpret the law and hassle these guys. Through it all, the T7 were cool, calm, collected and refused to be part of any escalation of the situation. They had their resolve, knowledge and firmness fully under control. Those were men in a difficult situation and they acquitted themselves admirably-not only to their own credit as individual citizensbut to the benefit of all other responsible law abiding and carrying citizens.

    The 18 year old with a gun on his hip, a job application and an attitudewas a boy with some kind of distortedpoint to prove.

    There is no comparison between the two incidents. Apples and oranges. Men and boys.



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