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Thread: Wal-Mart in the News Again

  1. #1
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    Over in the Alabama section, there is a thread developing about a young man arrested for openly carrying a firearm inside of a Wal-Mart. I'm bring this topic over to the VA section for discussion because Wal-Mart questions seem to pop-up almost monthly. While reading the thread in the Alabama section, I stumbled across something startling which flies directly in the face of the voice mail that several of us have saved for any negative Wal-Mart encounters. Its impossible to verify the validity of this e-mail as the "From" information has been ommitted!!

    Wal-Mart's Policy About Concealed Weapons on Their Premises

    For those of you who have encountered "NO CONCEAL CARRY" signs on your local Wal-Mart front doors. The reason why the signs are up is because they are in the computer. When a store manager orders new signs, if that manager is anti-gun, he can order those signs and put them up. The Wal-Mart corporate policy goes against these managers. You can call up Wal-Mart and tell them that said manager is going against the corporate policy and the signs will be taken down. I know because this has happened a couple of times here in South Carolina and it has been pursued and the signs have been removed.

    Below is the letter I received from corporate HQ to confirm what I am referring to:






    DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PM

    Subject: RE: Firearms

    Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.

    The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

    We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.

    Thank you,

    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.


  2. #2
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    Well now we all know that the part in bold about open weapons is completely BS. I believe that there is a sound bite somewhere on these boards that debunks that statement.That policy should state that if it is legal in the state, it's legal in the store.

    Here it is: http://www.reachtheworld.net/media/W...olicy_Call.MP3


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    Dang, I've open carried on several occasions in my local china mart. No one has ever asked me to leave. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and don't appear to be a threat?

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    beradcee....i acknowledged that voicemail in my original post. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.....but how do we know that voicemail isn't complete BS?!?!?!?!:what::shock: What gives that voicemail anymore standing then the e-mail I posted?

    I too have OC'd on MANY occasions in several Wal-Marts and have not once had a problem. I'd still like to know what the REAL WM policy is just in case I'm ever confronted.

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    As an Alabama resident, I must say that we have feared for some time that something like this would happen. I have personally met another individual who was harrassed by an LEO for OC and had his pistol permit revoked. It took an attorney to get it back to him.

    Having said this, I'm strongly considering contributing to this unfortunate individual's legal defense fund, because this could be our version of the "Starbucks incident" that you Virginians benefited from.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    I have never seen any signs at Walmart stores in Virginia, but I did see one in Carlsbad New Mexico. But they sell alcoholic beverages so by state law you cannot carry there. I did not see any in Abaline Texas.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    I have never seen any signs at Walmart stores in Virginia, but I did see one in Carlsbad New Mexico. But they sell alcoholic beverages so by state law you cannot carry there. I did not see any in Abaline Texas.

    Regards
    I thought the beverage rule only applied if the place served the alcohol for on premises consumption?



    DC

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    DeadCenter wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    I have never seen any signs at Walmart stores in Virginia, but I did see one in Carlsbad New Mexico. But they sell alcoholic beverages so by state law you cannot carry there. I did not see any in Abaline Texas.

    Regards
    I thought the beverage rule only applied if the place served the alcohol for on premises consumption?

    DC
    In Virginia that is the case. In New Mexico, anyplace that sells alcohol is off limits to carry of weapons of any kind. and believe it or not EVERYPLACE sell alcohol there. I had trouble finding a place to eat where I could carry. Even the Subway sold beer and that made it off limits. I stopped into a gun shop for some ammo, and the owner told me that the way the law is written in NM that technically a motel room with a mini bar might get someone in trouble, because the contents of that bar ore for sale.

    HERE is a cite with the text of the law there.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    DeadCenter wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    I have never seen any signs at Walmart stores in Virginia, but I did see one in Carlsbad New Mexico. But they sell alcoholic beverages so by state law you cannot carry there. I did not see any in Abaline Texas.

    Regards
    I thought the beverage rule only applied if the place served the alcohol for on premises consumption?



    DC
    In Virginia that is the case. In New Mexico, anyplace that sells alcohol is off limits to carry of weapons of any kind. and believe it or not EVERYPLACE sell alcohol there. I had trouble finding a place to eat where I could carry. Even the Subway sold beer and that made it off limits. I stopped into a gun shop for some ammo, and the owner told me that the way the law is written in NM that technically a motel room with a mini bar might get someone in trouble, because the contents of that bar ore for sale.

    Regards
    You mean open or concealed is off limits everywhere? Even a 7-11?

    DC


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    Per Usual, Hawk is mostly correct

    Per packing.org, there seems to be some confusion over the wording concerning carry in establishments that sell alcohol:

    30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.
    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    (1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of his duties;
    (2) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or his agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;
    (3) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    (4) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily utilized for vehicular traffic or parking; or
    (5) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:
    (a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and
    (b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.
    B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony".

    There still seems to be some confusion regarding our alcohol laws. Here's the complete text you need to understand. The word "dispense" in NM does not differentiate between on-premise or off-premise consumption.



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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Per Usual, Hawk is mostly correct

    Per packing.org, there seems to be some confusion over the wording concerning carry in establishments that sell alcohol:
    ...SNIP

    (3) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    .... SNIP
    And this is the one that is confusing people now. The feeling among some locals is that this refers to a restaurant or bar connected to a motel and exempts the rooms, But it does not exclude a room with a mini bar. The guy could not tell me of any cases where anyone got snagged for this but they are waiting for the shoe to drop. Technically the mini bar is a licensed dispensary where drinks are sold.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    (3) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    .... SNIP
    And this is the one that is confusing people now. The feeling among some locals is that this refers to a restaurant or bar connected to a motel and exempts the rooms, But it does not exclude a room with a mini bar. The guy could not tell me of any cases where anyone got snagged for this but they are waiting for the shoe to drop. Technically the mini bar is a licensed dispensary where drinks are sold.

    Regards
    Exactly, so (3) above clearly makes it exempt... Regardless of whether there's a minibar in the hotel/motel room, it's still "that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy"
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    (3) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    .... SNIP
    And this is the one that is confusing people now. The feeling among some locals is that this refers to a restaurant or bar connected to a motel and exempts the rooms, But it does not exclude a room with a mini bar. The guy could not tell me of any cases where anyone got snagged for this but they are waiting for the shoe to drop. Technically the mini bar is a licensed dispensary where drinks are sold.

    Regards
    Exactly, so (3) above clearly makes it exempt...* Regardless of whether there's a minibar in the hotel/motel room, it's still "that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy"
    All I am saying is that people out there do not see this as a full exemption because the room is also a distribution point for alcohol sales. Not my view theirs.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    All I am saying is that people out there do not see this as a full exemption because the room is also a distribution point for alcohol sales. Not my view theirs.
    I think they're out to lunch. Any DA that would bring someone up on charges for that would most likely get laughed out of the courtroom by the Judge...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    All I am saying is that people out there do not see this as a full exemption because the room is also a distribution point for alcohol sales. Not my view theirs.
    I think they're out to lunch.* Any DA that would bring someone up on charges for that would most likely get laughed out of the courtroom by the Judge...
    Well one would hope. But then one would also expect a federal prosecutor not to charge Border patrol agents FOR ARRESTING ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSERS! But it still happens.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I thought I'd hit this post again so it would show up in the main list, especially with all the Wal-Mart incidents going on. A large majority of people are ignoring the additional information that I tracked down and posted back at the beginning of this thread. I've repeated it below again with the caveat that I have no way to verify the e-mail. My point here is I don't think anyone really know what Wal-Marts policy is. Several folks have made some good points about pressing the issue with upper management and how it may not be the best idea for the open carry community as a whole. Again, just wanted to point out that per this e-mail, Wal-Mart does not allow open carry.

    [line]



    DATE: Friday, April 16,1999 2:13 PM

    Subject: RE: Firearms


    Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy. Wal-Mart was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles. Strive for Excellence, Service to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for the individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed handguns.

    The following is our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a concealed handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction of the state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's concealed weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart reserves the right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will not be visible, to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property, With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not allow any exposed weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in Wal-Mart stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying a weapon in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

    We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your concerns regarding this issue.

    Thank you,

    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.


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    bayboy42 wrote:
    beradcee....i acknowledged that voicemail in my original post. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.....but how do we know that voicemail isn't complete BS?!?!?!?!:what::shock: What gives that voicemail anymore standing then the e-mail I posted?

    I too have OC'd on MANY occasions in several Wal-Marts and have not once had a problem. I'd still like to know what the REAL WM policy is just in case I'm ever confronted.
    Just to give you some background.......

    I'm the one who received the voice mail and it was hosted by another forum member who had the capability.

    When the original report came out that local Walmart managerswere organizing a ban on legally carried firearms in their stores I wrote a letter to corporate & local stores. I informed themthat I spend a lot of money each year at Walmart & Sams Club, thatI havecarried a firearm nearly every day for 30 years, and if I can't carry in their stores I would take my business elsewhere.

    I receivedseveralBS responses andinsistedthat the response was not satisfactory. Then I got the voice mail from the regional manager's assistant.

    The voice mail is real although I didedit out the assistant's name at the beginning of the MP3. I still have the original voice mail saved on my cell phone.



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    NytoVa wrote:
    Just to give you some background.......

    I'm the one who received the voice mail and it was hosted by another forum member who had the capability.

    When the original report came out that local Walmart managerswere organizing a ban on legally carried firearms in their stores I wrote a letter to corporate & local stores. I informed themthat I spend a lot of money each year at Walmart & Sams Club, thatI havecarried a firearm nearly every day for 30 years, and if I can't carry in their stores I would take my business elsewhere.

    I receivedseveralBS responses andinsistedthat the response was not satisfactory. Then I got the voice mail from the regional manager's assistant.

    The voice mail is real although I didedit out the assistant's name at the beginning of the MP3. I still have the original voice mail saved on my cell phone.
    Why did you edit out her name? Is that a secret or are you keeping her all to yourself? I believe she gave a phone number to call so who does one speak with?

  19. #19
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Why did you edit out her name? Is that a secret or are you keeping her all to yourself? I believe she gave a phone number to call so who does one speak with?
    Joe McQueen.

  20. #20
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    NytoVa wrote:
    Just to give you some background.......

    I'm the one who received the voice mail and it was hosted by another forum member who had the capability.

    ...
    I receivedseveralBS responses andinsistedthat the response was not satisfactory. Then I got the voice mail from the regional manager's assistant.


    Did you call her back or speak to her after the message?




  21. #21
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Why did you edit out her name?
    Just didn't think her name was relevant and I believe in privacy. She gave Joe McQeens name as the marketplace manager. He's the important one to contact.



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    HankT wrote:
    Did you call her back or speak to her after the message?
    I was traveling at the time and started a new job when I returned so I never did call her back. She gave me the answer I wanted to hear.

  23. #23
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    NytoVa wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Did you call her back or speak to her after the message?
    I was traveling at the time and started a new job when I returned so I never did call her back. She gave me the answer I wanted to hear.

    You missed an opportunity to nail it down tight. She was willing, even expectant to talk with you again. She may have even called you back.

    I don't criticize your prioritization of things to do. But, obviously, just relying on the contents of that audio message text is not very useful today...




    NytoVa wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Why did you edit out her name?
    Just didn't think her name was relevant and I believe in privacy. She gave Joe McQeens name as the marketplace manager. He's the important one to contact.
    I agree that McQueen is the guy to contact. Seems like people are afraid to contact him.

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    With so many instances of getting kicked out for OCing..... Someone may need to get the official ruling from Corporate.

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    I wonder if you could ask them to call corporate and talk to them before they kick you out. Maybe it would be a learning experience for them in their own company.

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