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Thread: My dream about open carry.

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    Recently Ted Nugent made a very good statement about disadvantages of open carry. Or something to the effect that by open carrying you are setting yourself up as a target.
    However, if the 65 million gun owners with CCW's or CPL's as they ae called in some states, were to all open carry I think it would be good. Is a bad guy going to try something when there are maybe a dozen people around him obviously armed.
    Also think of the good it would do for the holster trade. Their business would boom with people buying newer and fancier carry rigs.
    Well, just a dream, for now.

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    We are all targets already whether we OC or not. The question is just when and where. I carry to protect myself and others. I open carry to remind people that they can do the same.

    LoveMyCountry

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I would say is a bad guy going to try something with someone they KNOW is armed? I think not, or armored cars would be getting robbed left and right. The thugs do not want a shoot out. There are some crazies but for the most part a criminal is not going to F with someone they know can easily kill them.

    The Motor City Madman is wrong on this one.

    Do you have a link or reference where he said this?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    The tactical debate - CC v. OC - is kind of like the Miller Lite commercial - less filling, tastes great. Both sides have good arguments.

    But the political upside to OC is the factor that I like.

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    Mike wrote:
    Both sides have good arguments.
    I disagree. Mostly. While in certain RARE instances a firearm could make you a target those scenarios are more far fetched than the oponents of OC will admit.
    Fact is, the VAST majority of would be criminals are deterred by the sight of a firearm than will "target you". VAST MAJORITY.
    To me this makes the "target" argument weak.



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    I agree with Pa. Patriot. Most criminals are stupid, lazy people who look for opportunities to commit a crime they have good odds of getting away with.

    Most criminals are NOT hardened combat veterans who decide to go after what they want at all costs, and are willing to take out the most dangerous threat first.

    Just the fact that you are visibly armed will make the majority of criminals look elsewhere.

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    add me to that agreement.

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    Yet another good point. As anyone whom has ever OC'd in public can attest to, a lot of people plain old don't notice.

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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    Yet another good point. As anyone whom has ever OC'd in public can attest to, a lot of people plain old don't notice.
    Yep, people do not go around looking for people who are oc'ing, as long as your are decent about it.



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    I once read a quote from someone that went like this "Just because you own a guitar, doesn't make you a musician."

    It's a great way to look at lots of thing in life. I may own a car, but that doesn't mean I can drive at Daytona. Unlessit's arace car and practice a lot. I also may have a gun, but that doesn't mean I'm safe unless I'm observant and practice a lot.

    Part of carrying a weapon for self defense is being aware of your surroundings. If a bad guy was determined to rob a place and you were OCing, but unobservant, he may shoot you first just to get you out of the way. However, if you OC and are alert an observant, that bad guy may decide not to rob the place or come back after you leave.

    OC is a big responsibility because you must be much more alert than when you CC. If you OC, good for you. Just be aware and alert so some wacko doesn't target you or try to take your gun.

    If you CC, good for you too, but still observe your surroundings.


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    gsh341 wrote:
    OC is a big responsibility because you must be much more alert than when you CC. If you OC, good for you. Just be aware and alert so some wacko doesn't target you or try to take your gun.
    I agree. Open carrying is a big responsibility. However, I would like to take it one step further. Exercizing one's RKBA, whether open or concealed, is an awesome responsibility.

    I think that is what most people miss with any right. Yes, it's a right. A right not granted by the constitution, but one protected by the constitution. However, every right comes with an equal responsibility to handle that right properly.

    Unfortunately, there are many people who take their rights for granted and don't exercize the appropriate responsibility for managing it (*cough* media *cough* *spit* *vomit*)

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    I hate it when people bring up the so called "tactical advantage" of concealed carry. They say you are a target but NOT ONE of them has been able to link to a story where someone was targeted because of their pistol.

    Open carry is a choice, some people choose to, some choose not to, but I for one am sick of all the infighting between gun owners over open carry. You don't like your right to keep and BEAR arms, fine, don't use it, but don't tell me I'm in the wrong for exercising it.

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    badmonkey wrote:
    Open carry is a choice, some people choose to, some choose not to, but I for one am sick of all the infighting between gun owners over open carry. You don't like your right to keep and BEAR arms, fine, don't use it, but don't tell me I'm in the wrong for exercising it.
    This is a great two sentance reply to the generic OC vs CC debate.
    Perhaps just add
    "...fine, don't use it and hide your firearm like a criminal does, but don't tell me...



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    could'nt find any reference of Ted Nugent saying that, but I did find this

    http://freenewhampshire.blogspot.com...f-defense.html


    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img][img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]


    edit:corrected wrong address
    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img][img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Here's a scenario to help weigh your thoughts about OC and making yourself a target.

    You've stopped in an all-night gas station/food mart to fuel your car and buy something to drink on your way home. It's 12:45 AM, on a Sunday morning. While you are looking at the soft drink selections, several BG's enter the store and commence a robbery. One sees you and sees your gun. Mind you, they have already begun their mischief.

    More than likely, one of two reactions will play out. They will exit the premises quickly as they believe you to probably be a cop. Or they will immediately engage you in a mini-firefight.

    There is a third event to this scenario. If you are doing as you should all the time, especially when armed, you are aware of your surroundings and operating in Condition Yellow. As soon as you see some surly dudes enter the store, cover your firearm with your shirt. Now you have given yourself a slight edge and perhaps a better chance should robbery not satisfy their designs.

    And then there's this. Suppose you are exiting the store and going back to your car when you see these fellows approach the store. If they see your piece, more than likely, they will either change their mind and leave or wait until you leave. If you are carrying concealed, they will probably continue with their plans. So there is a residual positive to OC'ing in some questionable situations.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    ChefSMW wrote:
    could'nt find any reference of Ted Nugent saying that, but I did find this

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/2600.html
    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img][img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]
    Um... you realize you just "found" the first post in this thread right? HAHAHAHA.

    Welcome to the forum?
    -Unrequited

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    I open carry all the time here in Wyoming and South Dakota, and firmly believe that everyone should carry - one way or another - if at all possible. They should take the full responsibility for it and get as much training and practice as possible, of course.

    That said, even if it was legal in these places, open carry would probably not be the best idea for a lone person in South Central Los Angeles or anywhere large gangs hang out. (I used to live in the area.)

    No matter how good you are, if a group of bad guys decide to surround you and overwhelm you, they probably will. They'll also take your weapon and quite possibly kill you.

    If you can stay away from such places, you've likely got it made. If you can't, don't go alone even if you carry and know what to do with it. So do they...
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    MamaLiberty wrote:
    No matter how good you are, if a group of bad guys decide to surround you and overwhelm you, they probably will. They'll also take your weapon and quite possibly kill you.
    Not to argue. I just can't escape the idea that a gang would leave you alone because they know you're going to shoot several before they get the gun.

    Sorta like the old Daniel Boone TV series were Fess Parker points the flintlock at three bad-guys. One challenges, "You can't shoot all of us." Parker says, "Who wants to be first?"
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    MamaLiberty wrote:
    No matter how good you are, if a group of bad guys decide to surround you and overwhelm you, they probably will. They'll also take your weapon and quite possibly kill you.
    Not to argue. I just can't escape the idea that a gang would leave you alone because they know you're going to shoot several before they get the gun.

    Sorta like the old Daniel Boone TV series were Fess Parker points the flintlock at three bad-guys. One challenges, "You can't shoot all of us." Parker says, "Who wants to be first?"
    It's my belief that if you are carrying a gun, you should be avoiding places where you're likely to get into trouble if you can. That includes gang land. If you have to go there, drawing attention to yourself is probably not a good idea. OC may be a deterent to 2 or 3 7-11 robbers, but stupid humans get stupider in large groups (like street gangs full of self-loathing adolescants).

    I'm not saying don't ever do it, that's your call, I'm just saying I wouldn't do it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Maybe, but I sure wouldn't want to take the chance. You can't shoot the one in back of you who just pulled a big knife...

    Remember that these are areas where even full teams of police won't go after dark - or if a riot starts.

    Not worth it.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    It's my belief that if you are carrying a gun, you should be avoiding places where you're likely to get into trouble if you can. That includes gang land. If you have to go there, drawing attention to yourself is probably not a good idea. OC may be a deterent to 2 or 3 7-11 robbers, but stupid humans get stupider in large groups (like street gangs full of self-loathing adolescants).

    I'm not saying don't ever do it, that's your call, I'm just saying I wouldn't do it.
    Agreed. I guess another down-side is that I wouldn't want to educate gang-members that OC is their constitutional right.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    unrequited wrote:
    ChefSMW wrote:
    could'nt find any reference of Ted Nugent saying that, but I did find this

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/2600.html
    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img][img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]
    Um... you realize you just "found" the first post in this thread right? HAHAHAHA.

    Welcome to the forum?
    lol...damn, Im good like that Meant to post this

    http://freenewhampshire.blogspot.com...f-defense.html

    thanks for the welcome
    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]

  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    MamaLiberty wrote:
    I open carry all the time here in Wyoming and South Dakota, and firmly believe that everyone should carry - one way or another - if at all possible. They should take the full responsibility for it and get as much training and practice as possible, of course.

    That said, even if it was legal in these places, open carry would probably not be the best idea for a lone person in South Central Los Angeles or anywhere large gangs hang out. (I used to live in the area.)

    No matter how good you are, if a group of bad guys decide to surround you and overwhelm you, they probably will. They'll also take your weapon and quite possibly kill you.

    If you can stay away from such places, you've likely got it made. If you can't, don't go alone even if you carry and know what to do with it. So do they...
    Good points and you're right about gangs and their methods. Attacks can come with amazing speed and they don't stand around and wait their turn at you as in the movies. Three, four, five street guys beating up on you will cause a LOT of damage in a very short amount of time.

    I agree with your's and others' assessments that staying away from areas where BGs and gangs congregate is a smart and wise thing to do.. regardless whether you are armed or not. Real life is a far cry from TV and the movies.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
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    Citizen wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    It's my belief that if you are carrying a gun, you should be avoiding places where you're likely to get into trouble if you can. That includes gang land. If you have to go there, drawing attention to yourself is probably not a good idea. OC may be a deterent to 2 or 3 7-11 robbers, but stupid humans get stupider in large groups (like street gangs full of self-loathing adolescants).

    I'm not saying don't ever do it, that's your call, I'm just saying I wouldn't do it.
    Agreed. I guess another down-side is that I wouldn't want to educate gang-members that OC is their constitutional right.
    Many/most gang members have some criminal record that would make them not want to OC. They are known to LE and would not appreciate the attention they would garner.

    Also I think that we are tending fictionalize the possibilities of what might happen to us (becoming targets) if we do OC. Mind you I am not dismissing the possibility but only suggesting that I think that it is a lot like the scenes painted by the gun grabbers when Shall Issue was being first considered here in Va. - much exaggerated.

    I too believe in the political and educational benefits of OC. I tend to wear very light tan jeans, sharply pressed on the week-ends (dressy and comfortable) with an ironed, tucked in sport shirt. I either carry a full size. blue 1911 or a chrome .40 cal (both in condition 1) in very dressy leather with matching dbl. mag carriers. belt & cell phone case - my point here is that they do not blend in with my clothing - they are very obvious. The employees of the restaurant I frequent for Sat. and/or Sun. breakfast all greet me by name and thereby calm any timid liberals. The bookstore and Wally World are generally on my route and have grown accustomed to my face and condition. In the evening D and I are always seen at one eatery or another (some considered unfriendly) and are always treated pleasantly. Sure I have received "looks" from time to time but I nod and smile, acknowledging their stares and tossing them a conciliatory cookie. All in all I think that I am successfully creating more positive reactions and thinking than negative ones. I have answered many questions, directed numerous individuals how to get their CHPs and caused some to subscribe to Va-Alerts and possible VCDL membership. As long as this is the case and the law allows, I will continue to OC.

    Do I avoid high risk areas, stay at a minimum of condition yellow and follow other common sense guidelines? Of course. Besides the extra vigilance while OCing is good training reinforcement.

    Yata hey



    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    It's my belief that if you are carrying a gun, you should be avoiding places where you're likely to get into trouble if you can. That includes gang land. If you have to go there, drawing attention to yourself is probably not a good idea. OC may be a deterent to 2 or 3 7-11 robbers, but stupid humans get stupider in large groups (like street gangs full of self-loathing adolescants).

    I'm not saying don't ever do it, that's your call, I'm just saying I wouldn't do it.
    Agreed. I guess another down-side is that I wouldn't want to educate gang-members that OC is their constitutional right.
    Many/most gang members have some criminal record that would make them not want to OC. They are known to LE and would not appreciate the attention they would garner.

    Also I think that we are tending fictionalize the possibilities of what might happen to us (becoming targets) if we do OC. Mind you I am not dismissing the possibility but only suggesting that I think that it is a lot like the scenes painted by the gun grabbers when Shall Issue was being first considered here in Va. - much exaggerated.

    I too believe in the political and educational benefits of OC. I tend to wear very light tan jeans, sharply pressed on the week-ends (dressy and comfortable) with an ironed, tucked in sport shirt. I either carry a full size. blue 1911 or a chrome .40 cal (both in condition 1) in very dressy leather with matching dbl. mag carriers. belt & cell phone case - my point here is that they do not blend in with my clothing - they are very obvious. The employees of the restaurant I frequent for Sat. and/or Sun. breakfast all greet me by name and thereby calm any timid liberals. The bookstore and Wally World are generally on my route and have grown accustomed to my face and condition. In the evening D and I are always seen at one eatery or another (some considered unfriendly) and are always treated pleasantly. Sure I have received "looks" from time to time but I nod and smile, acknowledging their stares and tossing them a conciliatory cookie. All in all I think that I am successfully creating more positive reactions and thinking than negative ones. I have answered many questions, directed numerous individuals how to get their CHPs and caused some to subscribe to Va-Alerts and possible VCDL membership. As long as this is the case and the law allows, I will continue to OC.

    Do I avoid high risk areas, stay at a minimum of condition yellow and follow other common sense guidelines? Of course. Besides the extra vigilance while OCing is good training reinforcement.

    Yata hey


    Very well put and I would like to thank you for your positive projection of Virginians OC'ing. This helps all of us both in the eyes of other Virginians and in the eyes of visitors from other states.

    Thank you.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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