Informing law enforcement while driving...

imported post

Hey everyone, im back, and guess what i brought more trouble with me! :?

So today im goin down 264 and goin a lil fast and i get pulled over. The cop, wo wasnt very nice to begin with, takes my license and registaration back to his car to write my ticket.

When he returns he gives me te ticket to sign and what not and THEN says i saw when you opened your wallet that you had a gun permit (first off i didnt open my wallet, my IDs are in a carrying thing that i keep in my front pocket), then he asked are you carrying. I tell him no, im not.

He then says "Well you know that its that law that if pulled over you have to tell the officer that you have a permit and whether or not you are carrying"

I told him, no, ive always heard the opposite. He then said "Well i put a hit on your license so if you dont inform law enforcement when you get pulled over again then you will lose your permit"

Am i nuts? Is packing.org that wrong? that site says you dont have to inform.

I looked it up in the codes and couldnt find anyhting, i looked it up in my Virginia Gun owners guide, nothing. I called the police department, asked th enice lady if she could tell me the code. She put me on hold for a few minutes then came back adn said she couldnt find any code. Please tell me someone knows somehting here!! Not only did he say that i had to tell an LEO whether or not i had a gun but also that i have a permit!!

Please help me before i really think that this whole place has gone insane and i lock myself in a basement and wait for the end of the world...

:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

imported post

There is NO duty to inform. You only have to produce your permit if you are carrying and are asked by the officer to do so (see the code below). I would recommend filing a complaint against the officer so that the department can get him squared away!

I also would guess that he is just making up the part about the "hit on your license," because when they run your license they already know that you have a permit.

File a complaint and let us know how it goes. Here is the code that applies:

§ 18.2-308.H

The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.

Click to expand...

It can't get much clearer than that!

imported post

PackininVB wrote:

When he returns he gives me te ticket to sign and what not and THEN says i saw when you opened your wallet that you had a gun permit (first off i didnt open my wallet, my IDs are in a carrying thing that i keep in my front pocket), then he asked are you carrying. I tell him no, im not.

Click to expand...

Thank GOD you weren't open carrying!



PackininVB wrote:

So today im goin down 264 and goin a lil fast and i get pulled over. The cop, wo wasnt very nice to begin with, takes my license and registaration back to his car to write my ticket.

Click to expand...

So, how fast were you going?

imported post

So im not as nuts as i thought i was... what the hell is going on? why do cops seem to need to spout off laws that they dont know without even making a call and asking if they are correct??

This kind of stuff really pisses me off. I didnt even have my gun on me and i got shit for it!

By this guys logic i would have to say when i got pulled over "Hey, i have a permit, but i dont have a gun on me..."

imported post

Oh and i was just goin a lil over :?:?

imported post

Informing the LEO is a suggested courtesy not the law. The Virginia State Police have a very nice pamphlet covering Firearms laws in virginia -

See Here

If it was the law, it would be in here, and it is not. You might want to consider having a few of these in your glove box. You can get them free at any VSP barracks.

Regards

imported post

VB, since you're in VB there is a possibility that you are Navy and have an out of state permit? Not saying he was right, but does anyone know if youhave to inform in VA if you're carrying with say, a Florida permit? Do only VA CHPs show up when they run a plate here or would it be any state? Me thinks that maybe only VA permits get attached to your plate and if you were either running with an out of state permit OR out of state plates maybe it wouldn't work?

Just curious.

imported post

I have a VA permit, and a VA divers license. The only way he know that i have a permit is when he checked my license in his car. He said he saw me open my wallet, but i never did cause my IDs were in my front pocket...

imported post

So, Have you filed a complaint, called the officers seargent, or found the internal affairs form on their web-site?

imported post

Wooley wrote:

VB, since you're in VB there is a possibility that you are Navy and have an out of state permit? Not saying he was right, but does anyone know if youhave to inform in VA if you're carrying with say, a Florida permit?

Click to expand...

There is no duty to preemptively inform no matter what type of permit you have. And you are only required to carry your permit if you are carrying a concealed handgun.

Take another look at the law, it's pretty simple: If you are carrying concealed, you must have the permit on your person, and you must display the permit upon demand by the officer.

§ 18.2-308.H

The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.

Click to expand...

I agree with SicSemperTyrannis, the officer needs some edumacating through a complaint.

imported post

You are not required to tell LEO you have a concealed weapon.

Same goes for those who are concealing and have no permit. If it is discovered that you have a permit or your found to becarrying a concealed weapon... you need to show your permit.

He cannot put ANYTHING on your license either. This was an empty threat in an attempt to get you to report yourself next time.

Where did you get stopped? What is the officer's name?

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

Where did you get stopped? What is the officer's name?

Click to expand...

Yes, do tell. The officer obviously overlooked the customary serial-number check. LEO229 will want to make sure he doesn't overlook it again.

imported post

Citizen wrote:

Yes, do tell. The officer obviously overlooked the customary serial-number check. LEO229 will want to make sure he doesn't overlook it again.

Click to expand...

PackinginVB wasn't carrying, so it would be hard to so a SN check even for a rogue officer!


Citizen, did LEO229 give you a speeding ticket or something?!?

imported post

Citizen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Where did you get stopped? What is the officer's name?

Click to expand...

Yes, do tell. The officer obviously overlooked the customary serial-number check. LEO229 will want to make sure he doesn't overlook it again.

Click to expand...

Well, I heard others run SN of guns in private residences without probable cause.... why not on a traffic stop too..

One of these days... I will stop citizen and search him from head to toe... :shock:

imported post

TEX1N wrote:

Citizen, did LEO229 give you a speeding ticket or something?!?

Click to expand...

Oh, lord. Don't even ask.

Edit: Too late.

imported post

why do cops seem to need to spout off laws that they dont know without even making a call and asking if they are correct??

Click to expand...

Maybe he's planning on applying for a position with the Manassas PD.

imported post

I was pulled on 264 goin towards the beach by witchduck. The officers name is TPR M.S. Walden. By his logic he was saying that even if i wasnt carrying i still needed to inform the cop that i had a permit and that i wasnt carrying.

Maybe if i wrote a complaint then i could show that this trooper is slightly incompetent and tell them "Yeah i bet he said i was speeding too!" lol

Anyone have a link to what i would need to do to file a complaint?

At least this time it wasnt me who screwed up, (cept for goin too fast of course)

imported post

PackininVB wrote:

I was pulled on 264 goin towards the beach by witchduck. The officers name is TPR M.S. Walden. By his logic he was saying that even if i wasnt carrying i still needed to inform the cop that i had a permit and that i wasnt carrying.

Maybe if i wrote a complaint then i could show that this trooper is slightly incompetent and tell them "Yeah i bet he said i was speeding too!" lol

Anyone have a link to what i would need to do to file a complaint?

At least this time it wasnt me who screwed up, (cept for goin too fast of course)

Click to expand...

Just as a tip, if I were you I would think of what he did as a kind of threat. He basically told you that he had flagged your records in such a way that other LEOs who be alerted to treat you in a special way in the future, This would be a violation of your right to "Equal Protection" under the law. Sure if there was an attitude issue report that, but you need to focus on how this guy violated your rights, and how that threat caused you distress and was intimidating. This is especially true since there in NO requirement that you do what this LEO told you must be done.

If you go off on a lot of tangents in your complaint they will ignore you.

If you go the the VSP website you can find the information required to file a complaint.

Before you do that and while the incident is fresh in your mind, but before you tell the story so many times than it gets embellished, write down the facts of what occurred. This will help you prepare your complaint. Time date, loction and other specific details are critical.

Regards

imported post

PackininVB wrote

When he returns he gives me te ticket to sign and what not and THEN says i saw when you opened your wallet that you had a gun permit (first off i didnt open my wallet, my IDs are in a carrying thing that i keep in my front pocket), then he asked are you carrying. I tell him no, im not.

He then says "Well you know that its that law that if pulled over you have to tell the officer that you have a permit and whether or not you are carrying"

I told him, no, ive always heard the opposite. He then said "Well i put a hit on your license so if you dont inform law enforcement when you get pulled over again then you will lose your permit"

Click to expand...

Mrs. ChinChin was recently pulled over by one of Manassas' offiers, who attempted to tell her the same thing after being pulled over for a expired tag. Looking at her ticket I half-expected to see the name "Codfelter" but it actualy had a name not connected to the Tony's 7 affair.

I made sure Mrs. ChinChin was re-schooled on VA laws and then called Manassas PD to make sure they instructed their officers not to lie to citizens. I was half tempted to invoke VCDL and inquire if they desired another appearance at the next town council meeting, but thought better as A) I don't have a fracton of that clout, and B) Mrs. ChinChin now sees my point in never engaging an LEO of Manassas in conversastion of any kind as 9 out of 10 times they're on a fishing trip.

Not a badge-basher, but those people in Manassas need some serious retraining.

imported post

ChinChin wrote:

...SNIP
Not a badge-basher, but those people in Manassas need some serious retraining.

Click to expand...

As a professional LE trainer I can assure you that you are mistaken. Before they can be "RETRAINED", they must be trained in the first place. It is clear that this critical first step has been omitted.

Regards