Banned from Wal-Mart

Dutch Uncle · May 21, 2007

imported post

As usual, Danbus dealt with an aggravating situation very well. I would have been both angry and annoyed, which would have made it difficult for me to handle things with Dan's characteristic aplomb.

It is always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but after talking with Dan, I put myself in the situation, and decided that when the LEO asked me to stay, but indicated I wasn't being detained, I would have given him my card, written my cell phone number on the back and said "Officer, I've been very patient, but I've done nothing illegal, and I want to be on my way. Here's my card and phone number. If you or the store people need to discuss this further, feel free to call me and I will certainly get back to you. Bye, now". I can't imagine how any LEO could be upset by such an approach, since it shows one to be polite, above-board and civil, without being submissive.

I've got a VCDL membership card around here somewhere; maybe I'll make some copies of that to put in my wallet. That would really say it all.....

BobCav · May 21, 2007

imported post

Tomahawk wrote:

swatpro911 wrote:

I understand your point of view, but in todays world u cant have that kind of attitude towards cops. Eventhough there is nothing wrong the way you handled the situation but u created a drama, and drew attention. If you return to that location in the future u will be arrested. I have barred people in the past, as long as they cooperate and help me help them we are cool. Even if a cops came up to me and said do u want to barr them? I would say nah they are cool, no need for that. Cops on the job has arrogance and just dont show it. They demand respect and want to be treated same as you are. If you had just showed him the ID and then gave him the lecture then he wud have gotten the idea that your not some ordinary folks from the corner but well versed and tactical. Patience is the key my man. "sometimesu gotta go with the flow and not create a big issue out of it" later u cud have filed complaint on that officer but now u cant. Anyway good job. But you could have done it better!

Click to expand...

Uh...oooookee-doke. Whatever you say.

Hey look! A unicorn!

Tomahawk - you're a nut! ROTFLMAO!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Swatpro - No compromise! If we compromise who we are, they win. We are already becoming exactly what they want us to become...

How about the reverse statement that "cops can't have that kind of attitude toward law abiding citizens"?

You cannot detain to merely establish identity, that's an illegal "Terry Stop". Unless the LEO witnessed an articulable crime....walk away. This is America and there is no need to show "paperz" NOW OR EVER and we will NEVER let it become that. PERIOD.

We have to hold onto each and every little freedom as if it were our last. For if we fail to do just that, one day it will be our last freedom.

One would do well to heed Martin Niemöller’s warning about the consequences of capitulation in the face of tyranny. This was written in Germany during Hitler's reign:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing.
Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist.
And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little.
Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me."

Or how about my more modern interpretation:

First they limited fully automatic firearms,but I did not own one,so I said nothing.
Then they came for the "Evil Black Assault Rifles", but I didn't have one,so I did nothing.
Then they came for the hunters,but I wasn't a hunter.
Then they came for the semi-auto guns, but I did not own one,so I did little.
Then they came for me and there were no guns left and as no left to fight for me anyway.

LoveMyCountry · May 21, 2007

imported post

Danbus, I need to get you that shirt! :lol:

Regarding not having to show ID, where can I find that in my states laws? What kind of terms would I look for it under? My stomach would be rolling while I said it, but if I don't have to show ID, I will tell them so.

LoveMyCountry

HankT · May 21, 2007

imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:

What's with the white and the black thing? I find that rather disingenuous. As a Southern man, I might even find that a little more than that.

Black folks don't always get treated the same as white folks, even today. Inany case, being black is a part of identity. Similar to being Southern. Hardly disingenuous.

SouthernBoy wrote:

I did like the part about the 2nd LEO having some problems understanding Condition One. While I respect our officers of the law, it has been my experience that more than just a few have limited knowledge about firearms. I think that is a might curious.

So the guy didn't know the model 1911. And you do. And you find that "curious?"

Talk about being disingenuous.

Hey, you know more about the 1911 than he does. That and3 bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks.

psmartin · May 21, 2007

imported post

HankT wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

What's with the white and the black thing? I find that rather disingenuous. As a Southern man, I might even find that a little more than that.

Click to expand...

Black folks don't always get treated the same as white folks, even today. Inany case, being black is a part of identity. Similar to being Southern. Hardly disingenuous.

SouthernBoy wrote:

I did like the part about the 2nd LEO having some problems understanding Condition One. While I respect our officers of the law, it has been my experience that more than just a few have limited knowledge about firearms. I think that is a might curious.

Click to expand...

So the guy didn't know the model 1911. And you do. And you find that "curious?"

Talk about being disingenuous.

Hey, you know more about the 1911 than he does. That and3 bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks.

Good call Hank...

Maybe it's time to throw the "race flag" into the equation and throw that back at Walmart.

You were AT WALMART shopping,acting in a legal, peaceful manner and made purchases without incident (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming here), after you were done, "Management" decided they wanted to throw you out of the store, permenantly, without first advising of any misconduct.

As someone who has PERSONALLY pursued litigation against Walmart-Stores Inc and prevailed with an "$$out of court settlement$$", it is my opinion that you have been presented with a VERY strong racial discrimination case, courtesy of Walmart's idiocy.

Corporate is CONSTANTLY paying out money to cover for "vigilante" store employees and managers doing "stupid $hit" like this.

Assuming everything you say is factual, you have the opportunity to reverse a precident.

Walmart just "BANNED" a customer for legally carrying a firearm in a store that was not posted, and you were not previously advised to "NOT CARRY"

Open the Yellow Pages and thumb through LAWYERS for "Discrimination"

You have been wronged by Walmart:

1) You were targeted because you are a minority
2) Your character & good name have been jeopardized by this<your priest could have witnessed this!>
3) You have been "thrown out" of a major retailer without cause (trespassing is a double edged sword... Civil and Criminal -- your lawyer knows more)

Don't talk to Walmart, SCREW WALMART, Call an attorney & keep calling until one of them smells blood.

You know you've got them by the balls when a paralegal from Bentonville calls with a shoddy settlement offer & you give them to name & number of your lawyer and hang up the phone!

Tomahawk · May 21, 2007

imported post

psmartin wrote:

HankT wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

What's with the white and the black thing? I find that rather disingenuous. As a Southern man, I might even find that a little more than that.

Click to expand...

Black folks don't always get treated the same as white folks, even today. Inany case, being black is a part of identity. Similar to being Southern. Hardly disingenuous.

SouthernBoy wrote:

I did like the part about the 2nd LEO having some problems understanding Condition One. While I respect our officers of the law, it has been my experience that more than just a few have limited knowledge about firearms. I think that is a might curious.

Click to expand...

So the guy didn't know the model 1911. And you do. And you find that "curious?"

Talk about being disingenuous.

Hey, you know more about the 1911 than he does. That and3 bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks.

Click to expand...

Good call Hank...

Maybe it's time to throw the "race flag" into the equation and throw that back at Walmart.

You were AT WALMART shopping,acting in a legal, peaceful manner and made purchases without incident (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming here), after you were done, "Management" decided they wanted to throw you out of the store, permenantly, without first advising of any misconduct.

As someone who has PERSONALLY pursued litigation against Walmart-Stores Inc and prevailed with an "$$out of court settlement$$", it is my opinion that you have been presented with a VERY strong racial discrimination case, courtesy of Walmart's idiocy.

Corporate is CONSTANTLY paying out money to cover for "vigilante" store employees and managers doing "stupid $hit" like this.

Assuming everything you say is factual, you have the opportunity to reverse a precident.

Walmart just "BANNED" a customer for legally carrying a firearm in a store that was not posted, and you were not previously advised to "NOT CARRY"

Open the Yellow Pages and thumb through LAWYERS for "Discrimination"

You have been wronged by Walmart:

1) You were targeted because you are a minority
2) Your character & good name have been jeopardized by this<your priest could have witnessed this!>
3) You have been "thrown out" of a major retailer without cause (trespassing is a double edged sword... Civil and Criminal -- your lawyer knows more)

Don't talk to Walmart, SCREW WALMART, Call an attorney & keep calling until one of them smells blood.

You know you've got them by the balls when a paralegal from Bentonville calls with a shoddy settlement offer & you give them to name & number of your lawyer and hang up the phone!

And get that FOIA, too.

jimwyant · May 21, 2007

imported post

FWIW, my mother lives in Waynesboro, and I've OC'ed at that WM quite a few times - no reactions at all. I'm mid-30's, White, male and carry either a Ruger Alaskan 454 revolver or a G20 full size 10mm. Great job handling the situation, danbus! Let us know if you get a response from WM Corporate.

LoveMyCountry · May 21, 2007

imported post

If they offer to settle, try for a semi full of WWB ammo. :lol:

LoveMyCountry

TEX1N · May 21, 2007

imported post

Tomahawk wrote:

swatpro911 wrote:

I understand your point of view, but in todays world u cant have that kind of attitude towards cops. Eventhough there is nothing wrong the way you handled the situation but u created a drama, and drew attention. If you return to that location in the future u will be arrested. I have barred people in the past, as long as they cooperate and help me help them we are cool. Even if a cops came up to me and said do u want to barr them? I would say nah they are cool, no need for that. Cops on the job has arrogance and just dont show it. They demand respect and want to be treated same as you are. If you had just showed him the ID and then gave him the lecture then he wud have gotten the idea that your not some ordinary folks from the corner but well versed and tactical. Patience is the key my man. "sometimesu gotta go with the flow and not create a big issue out of it" later u cud have filed complaint on that officer but now u cant. Anyway good job. But you could have done it better!

Click to expand...

Uh...oooookee-doke. Whatever you say.

Hey look! A unicorn!

Awesome, Tomahawk!!!

Swat, if you don't respect freedom, you probably need to find another forum. In the America that I fought for we have a right to keep and bear arms and a right to not to be unreasonably searched or seized, in addition to many other rights.

The U.S. Supreme Court has defined unreasonable seizure to mean that the government must have an articulate reasonable suspicion that you are committing a crime before they can detain you without your consent. In the above situation the officers appeared not to have the required reasonable suspicion for the detainment, therefore possible violating the rights of Danbus.

Danbus prefers not to voluntarily give up any of his rights, and for that I respect him.

Swat, you should really question your appreciation for the freedom that so many have died for, before making such an outlandish politically correct statement.

DeadCenter · May 21, 2007

imported post

Danbus -- I have not met you (Yet). but, I look forward to the day I do.

You handled yourself so well you should be proud.

+100

DC

Citizen · May 21, 2007

imported post

BobCav wrote:

SNIP

...You cannot detain to merely establish identity, that's an illegal "Terry Stop". Unless the LEO witnessed an articulable crime....walk away. This is America and there is no need to show "paperz" NOW OR EVER and we will NEVER let it become that. PERIOD.

Good post, BobCav. I want to add to the emphasized information above, not specifically in regard to the current situation, but for future in general.

Its my understanding that a police officer may detain if he has reason to believe an offense was committed, is being committed, or is going to be committed.

I would advise against just walking away. You don't know if he has received a complaint or 911 call thatgives him reason to believe. You can try to excuse yourself, "Am I free to go?" You could also very politely engage in conversation. Its a two-way negotiation. He has authority on his side; but only as long as he doesn't cross the line. You have 4th Amendment case law on your side, but you have to know it in order to exercise it. And you do not want to give him ammunition by crossing the line yourself.

See the videos at www.flexyourrights.org

Goliath · May 21, 2007

imported post

I have OCed and CCed at that Walmart many times. I carry a Rock Island .45 in a panckae holster, and have never had any problems there. Sounds like profiling to me. I would pursue an attorney too. If nothing else if Walmart has to put out money several times maybe they will stop these rogue managers.

Goliath

HankT · May 21, 2007

imported post

Citizen wrote:

I would advise against just walking away. You don't know if he has received a complaint or 911 call thatgives him reason to believe. You can try to excuse yourself, "Am I free to go?" You could also very politely engage in conversation. Its a two-way negotiation. He has authority on his side; but only as long as he doesn't cross the line. You have 4th Amendment case law on your side, but you have to know it in order to exercise it. And you do not want to give him ammunition by crossing the line yourself.

+1

Walking away is a bad move. Walking away might work but it can easily be misinterpreted. Simply insist on ascertaining whether you are "free to go."

Dutch Uncle · May 21, 2007

imported post

Danbus,
If it does look as though some lawyering is in order (and the more I think about it, the more I think it might be), go to the VCDL website and look under firearms lawyers.

I think there might be someone in the Tidewater area with a god rep for this, so I'll do some homework.

The more I think about that "option one and option two" BS, the angrier I get. The LEO can't detain you just because some manager wants to "ban" you for doing something legal that the manager didn't like. You couldn't be charged with trespass, 'cause you weren't asked to leave. Hell, you'd ALREADY left before the whole thing got started! All those folks need an attitude adjustment.

:cuss:

Hawkflyer · May 21, 2007

imported post

You handled this very well, and NOBODY here who is monday morning quarterbacking carries any opinion that matters one whit. You did what you did because YOU felt the circumstances dictated to YOU that is how it should be done.

That fact that you could have left is fine for all of us to say to you, WE WERN"T THERE.

It is a shame you did not feel you could leave, but I would agree that because you did not, Walmart has "Placed before you an open door". Consider walking through that door and sending your kids through law school on the prize that awaits you inside.

Regards

DKSuddeth · May 21, 2007

imported post

67GT390FB wrote:

MAN AM I ONE LUCKY GUY OR WHAT AND NO SHE DOESN'T HAVE A SISTER.

Fine, how old is her mother?

ConditionThree · May 21, 2007

imported post

Nice job danbus.

Im not sure I would have been able to keep as squared away as you did.

One thing that has been suggested to me for future possible encounters is to carry a digital voice recorder soI have documentation. I think it might just be required equipment if encounters continue to go like this...

livitup · May 21, 2007

imported post

I have to agree with the few others who mentioned getting a lawyer. I literally said to myself "somebody's going to get paid" when I read the post title. The fact that other (white) people have OC'd there before is only more fodder for the legal cannons. Get your kids a nice college fund out of the deal.

And before anyone jumps on me, I'm not making this a race thing, I firmly believe the store did that all on their own.

Gray Peterson · May 21, 2007

imported post

You know what, I smell a way to take down open carry posted bans.

taurusfan · May 21, 2007

imported post

WHY are you O'carrying in Wal-Mart?

The Wal-Mart corporate policy IS no open carry unless LEO.

WHAT sense does it make to show the ID and be BANNED than to show it and walk away?

You made a very poor choice, sir.

I have concealed carry in that Wal-Mart myself.

Banned from Wal-Mart

Campaign Veteran

Founder's Club Member

State Researcher

State Researcher

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

State Researcher

Regular Member

Regular Member

Founder's Club Member

Regular Member

State Researcher

Campaign Veteran

Founder's Club Member

Accomplished Advocate

State Pioneer

Regular Member

Founder's Club Member - Moderator

Regular Member