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Thread: Can you OC with a CC permit in PA?

  1. #1
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    One of my friends called me today because he knows that I OC and was concearned because one of his other friends that is going to school to be a LEO showed him in a law book something that by the way they read it said that if you have a CC permit you can not legally OC. Is that true? Because, I never saw or found any law like that. Would anyone know what law he may be refering to?

    Thanks!

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    NO! Of course you can open carry with a LTCF, in fact you better have an LTCF if you open carry in a vehicle or in philadelphia or while hunting or else you'll be violating the law! An LTCF does NOT restrict you from any rights. I'll find my list of laws so you can school your friend.



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    If you click on the headings they will take you directly to the sources of information (If(if those links are still valid)



    Commonwealth v. Hawkins
    In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. *Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license*. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (*only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license*). The Commonwealth takes the radical position that police have a duty to stop and frisk when they receive information from any source that a suspect has a gun. Since it is not illegal to carry a licensed gun in Pennsylvania,4 it is difficult to see where this shocking idea originates, notwithstanding the Commonwealth's fanciful and histrionic references to maniacs who may spray schoolyards with gunfire and assassins of public figures who may otherwise go undetected. Even if the Constitution of Pennsylvania would permit such invasive police activity as the Commonwealth proposes -- which it does not -- such activity seems more likely to endanger than to protect the public. Unnecessary police intervention, by definition, produces the possibility of conflict where none need exist.* Contrary to the Commonwealth's view, the public will receive its full measure of protection by police who act within the restraints imposed on them by Art. I, § 8 of the Constitution of Pennsylvania and this court's relevant case law. Upon receiving unverified information that a certain person is engaged in illegal activity, the police may always observe the suspect and conduct their own investigation. If police surveillance produces a reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct, the suspect may, of course, be briefly stopped and questioned (the Terry investigative stop),


    Commonwealth v. Ortiz
    53 Pa.C.S. section 13133. Philadelphia appellants assert that they are limited by the acts of the General Assembly only if those acts are applicable in the entire commonwealth, and the firearms statute is not. In particular, they argue that in Philadelphia County, the legislature requires that a person must be licensed to carry weapons openly and not concealed from sight,*
    18 Pa.C.S. section 6108, [footnote 1] whereas in all other counties of Pennsylvania, *weapons may be carried openly without a license*, 18 Pa.C.S. section 6106. [footnote 2]


    Only the Issuing Authority has the Right to Confiscate a Pennsylvania LTCF

    § 6109. Licenses

    Revocation.--A license to carry firearms may be revoked by the issuing authority[/b] for good cause. A license to carry firearms shall be revoked by the issuing authority for any reason stated in subsection (e)(1) which occurs during the term of the permit. Notice of revocation shall be in writing and shall state the specific reason for revocation. Notice shall be sent by certified mail, and, at that time, a copy shall be forwarded to the commissioner. An individual whose license is revoked shall surrender the license to the issuing authority within five days of receipt of the notice. An individual whose license is revoked may appeal to the court of common pleas for the judicial district in which the individual resides. An individual who violates this section commits a summary offense.

    LTCF Only Required if Carrying Concealed or in a Vehicle

    § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

    (a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

    Possible Penalty for Police Actions against a citizens lawful possession of firearms

    § 5301. Official oppression.

    A person acting or purporting to act in an official capacity or taking advantage of such actual or purported capacity commits a misdemeanor of the second degree[/b] if, knowing that his conduct is illegal, he: subjects another to arrest, detention, search, seizure, mistreatment, dispossession, assessment, lien or other infringement of personal or property rights; or denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power or immunity.

    Terroristic threats/Disorderly conduct not applicable to lawful open carrying of a firearm

    § 2706. Terroristic threats.

    (a) Offense defined. A person commits the crime of terroristic threats if the person communicates, either directly or indirectly, a threat to: commit any crime of violence with intent to terrorize another; cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation; or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience, or cause terror or serious public inconvenience with reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience.

    (e) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "communicates" means conveys in person or by written or electronic means, including telephone, electronic mail, Internet, facsimile, telex and similar transmissions.

    § 5503. Disorderly conduct.

    (a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; makes unreasonable noise; uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.


    Legitimate purpose to open or conceal carry a firearm: Section 21. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

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    § 6109. Licenses.
    (a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.



    This should've been modified to include open carrying in the city of philadelphia but you'll find that covered in Commonwealth v. Ortiz& Commonwealth v. Hawkins

    Having the licence doesn't prohibit you from open carrying.



    Reading comprehension is lost on most people.

  5. #5
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    through all of the case law I've seen cited, can someone show me where it was determined that the PA constitution didn't apply in Philly?

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    through all of the case law I've seen cited, can someone show me where it was determined that the PA constitution didn't apply in Philly?

    That's one that's gonna stew until somebody breaks philly's rule, gets prosecuted and appeals the case.


    That said, I'm saving up my money to buy two guns at once Anybody know a good lawyer that'll do RKBA cases pro bono?

  7. #7
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    A license to carry "allows" you to carry concealed. It does not mean you have to. The LEO that showed your friend the law doesn't know how to read the law, nor does he understand what he has read.

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    Actually, the law is fine, it was passed by the commonwealth NOT philly.

    You have to comply with this one or else you're going to jail!

    Any philly passed law, and there are at least 8 of them, isn't enforcable and have been repeatily struck down by the courts!



    I'll give you the code ...

    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6108.html

    § 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.
    No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:



    1. such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
    2. such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

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