• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

My notes from the MMM

Mr. Y

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
485
Location
Super Secret Squirrel Bunker, Virginia, USA
imported post

I concur with previous posters. You can see my comments in theoriginal thread, that if my parents knew I behaved in a way similar to the MMM people at that meeting, they'dhave made a special trip to my house and washed my mouth out with soap right in front of my wife.

These were some of the rudest people I've ever come across. I've had drill Segeants that were more polite.

In fact, after that meeting I sent my parents an email, thanking them for teaching me not to misbehave like that anywhere, much less in public.
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

I can only image they are so mad because they know they are fighting a loosing battle.

I guess everyone needs to believe in something... I believe I am going to go getanother beer.
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
imported post

jodonoghue wrote:
My name is Julie O'Donoghue and I would like to talk to you about this. Please give me a call back at 703-917-6433. I am a reporter with The Connection Newspapers.

Julie
After a PM from Mike, I contacted Ms. O'Donoghue. I'm awaiting a return call. She has joined, obviously, and probably read what we've already written, so she knows of the rudeness. I hope she's also seen:


The Million Mom March of Northern Virginia
What: An informational meeting about U.S. and Virginia gun laws
Who: All concerned Virginia residents are invited
Are you confused by state and federal gun laws? How does our government keep guns out of the wrong hands? Can and should gun laws be strengthened? What can we do to prevent school shootings and other gun violence? Our guest speaker will be Bob Ricker, former chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association who now advocates for sensible gun laws and is a recognized expert on federal and state regulations.

Monday, May 21, at 7 p.m.
Kings Park Library
9000 Burke Lake Rd.
Burke, VA 22015-1683

Monday, June 4, at 7 p.m.
Centreville Regional Library
14200 St. Germain Dr.
Centreville, VA 20121-2299
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

I hope she will be fair and complete in reporting everything she learns.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

Mr. Y wrote:
In fact, after that meeting I sent my parents an email, thanking them for teaching me not to misbehave like that anywhere, much less in public.

How rude! After all they did for you! You'd think your parents would deserve a handwritten note and a lousy 41 cents stamp!

:p
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

HankT wrote:
Mr. Y wrote:
In fact, after that meeting I sent my parents an email, thanking them for teaching me not to misbehave like that anywhere, much less in public.

How rude! After all they did for you! You'd think your parents would deserve a handwritten note and a lousy 41 cents stamp!

:p
He is cheating the post officer out of revenue! That is why the price of postage stamps went up!!
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
HankT wrote:
Mr. Y wrote:
In fact, after that meeting I sent my parents an email, thanking them for teaching me not to misbehave like that anywhere, much less in public.

How rude! After all they did for you! You'd think your parents would deserve a handwritten note and a lousy 41 cents stamp!

:p
He is cheating the post officer out of revenue!
They should check all his mail--incoming and outgoing. Never know, there could be something stolen in there!
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

Mr. Y wrote:
I'll have you know that thousands of electrons gave their all to get that message out.

:p
So all he did was divert revenue from the post office to the electric company. Great! :?
 

BobCav

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,798
Location
No longer in Alexandria, Egypt
imported post

Folks, a couple thoughts on the next event. (This is a long one)

You know, attending the first meeting was one thing and youhad the element of surprise. Not having been there, all I can do is read these after action reports and I'd say that there wassome excellent intel. However, before anyonejumps into a mass OC at the next MMM meeting, here's a couple things to think about.

First,let me qualify my statements with a few points.I'm 100% for Open Carrying at all times and do so myself everywhere I legally can. Most people CC first until they feel comfortable with OC - NOT ME! I jumped right in and STILL haven't CC'ed anywhere. (I'm such a rebel) OC at the library is legal andOC at their meeting is legal. However you shouldto think about what would be best for the OC cause as a whole.

First, they now know that open carriers will be there, so the element of surprise is gone. And they know we will be taping and if they've done their homework (let's assume they have) they will know that we can, that they can't stop us and they'll know exactly what to say and do to support their cause and degrade our cause. In fact, theymay bedoing some filming themselves! That's what I would do!They could very well be making thisa production of their own for not only training, but for legal purposes.

They have vast resources at their disposal and you'd be foolish to think that they didn't notify "HQ" after the last meeting. Anyone attending would be wise to very deliberately prepare for a concerted attack.

They believe with all their hearts that they are right and they have years and years of disinformation at their disposal. You will NOT convert anyone. You may plant a seed of truth, but that's about it.

Let's face it guys, most men like guns and most women don't. It's a fact that the Brady Campaign, who founded the MMM, have known and ingeniously exploited to their benefit for years now. Believe me, it was quite deliberate. Generally speaking women are by natureemotional and men are by nature more logical. THe old Mars-Venus thing. Our female OC'ers are thankfully the exception to the rule.

A belief is an ideal that is held to be true even if evidence to the contrary exists. Beliefs are incredibly hard to change and in human beings it usually takes a "significant emotional event" to change a person's beliefs. Significant emotional events are things like births, deaths, marrianges, divorces, getting fired, being a victim of crime, inheriting large sums of money, etc.... Let's face it,that meeting will NOT be a significant emotional event for anyone, all it will potentially do is fuel one side or the other.

NOTHING you do or say that night will change their minds. But in an INSTANT, you can lose control, get angry or say the wrong thing giving them all the justification they need. Now, are you who are planning to attend that well versed in the law and disinformation of BOTH sides or that in control of your emotions to be able to confront such an assault? Seriously? Personal attacks aren't as easy to take as you might thing and they would LOVE to see someone carrying a gun get angry and lash out.

Guys, let's face it. We ALL like guns, so we're all automatically the enemy, (as some of you found out at the last meeting)so we're at a double loss there. I say that this is the time for any and all female Open Carriers to rally forth and contactTess and do everything possible to attend this meeting. Honestly, most women who carry have been through that significant emotional event that has changed their belief and perception forever and THEY ALONE are the best hope.

As for me? My wife is from Brasil where owning a gun is a government privilege and while not an "anti", she never liked guns at all. Yet a couple months ago she picked up my .45 from the coffee table and commented on how heavy it was. It was a HUGE step for her. Last night while cleaning my rifles, she picked up my .22 rifle and said the same thing. I showed her how to sight it and explained how it worked. I told her that it is the easiest rifle to shoot and she agreed to shoot with me.

What changed her? Seeing me open carrying responsibly day after day. Watching me take care of my guns, cleaning, piling and being responsible and teaching her above all that safety is paramount. She knows history and how we got here, so there's no need to go there. But more importantly she knows that Inever carried before I met her and it's as muchto protect her as anything. Why, because that's my job as her husband and as a man and dammit, there's nothing wrong with ibeing a man and protecting and defending what's mine. My wife, my family, myselfand our home.

One million moms can all tell me one million times that carrying a gun is wrong and it means absolutely nothing to me. But when just one woman, my beloved wife, tells me she understands why I carry and supports me and appreciates why I do what I do....well, folks that's all that matters in the world.
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

BobCav wrote:
snip... You will NOT convert anyone. You may plant a seed of truth, but that's about it. ...snip
Well said...!

If anyone from this forum thinks they are going to go to the meeting to change their minds and get them to understand personal protection.. forget it!

I say go and see what they plan to do in order to ban guns. Let's face it... this is the only that can do other than raise awareness to their group.

If you go.. be on your best behavior. Keep your mouth closed and your ears open. :)
 

Lew

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
217
Location
Moscow, ID
imported post

This thread got me thinking about how important it is to understand the (mis)information that MMM/BB uses. Since I don't have time to attend meetings, I've been reading all the "facts" on their websites. It's pretty interesting, especially after reading the psychology behind the gun control advocates that someone linked earlier (http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ragingagain.PDF). It definitely wouldn't hurt anyone to understand where they're coming from, the better to discuss frankly with them. There's a lot of fear and rage.

Edit: I couldn't find any forums for gun control. If anyone knows any, it would be interesting to browse the discussions (not to troll, just to read).
 

DeadCenter

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
718
Location
The Lower End of NoVa, Virginia, USA
imported post

BobCav wrote:
Folks, a couple thoughts on the next event. (This is a long one)

You know, attending the first meeting was one thing and youhad the element of surprise. Not having been there, all I can do is read these after action reports and I'd say that there wassome excellent intel. However, before anyonejumps into a mass OC at the next MMM meeting, here's a couple things to think about.

First,let me qualify my statements with a few points.I'm 100% for Open Carrying at all times and do so myself everywhere I legally can. Most people CC first until they feel comfortable with OC - NOT ME! I jumped right in and STILL haven't CC'ed anywhere. (I'm such a rebel) OC at the library is legal andOC at their meeting is legal. However you shouldto think about what would be best for the OC cause as a whole.

First, they now know that open carriers will be there, so the element of surprise is gone. And they know we will be taping and if they've done their homework (let's assume they have) they will know that we can, that they can't stop us and they'll know exactly what to say and do to support their cause and degrade our cause. In fact, theymay bedoing some filming themselves! That's what I would do!They could very well be making thisa production of their own for not only training, but for legal purposes.

They have vast resources at their disposal and you'd be foolish to think that they didn't notify "HQ" after the last meeting. Anyone attending would be wise to very deliberately prepare for a concerted attack.

They believe with all their hearts that they are right and they have years and years of disinformation at their disposal. You will NOT convert anyone. You may plant a seed of truth, but that's about it.

Let's face it guys, most men like guns and most women don't. It's a fact that the Brady Campaign, who founded the MMM, have known and ingeniously exploited to their benefit for years now. Believe me, it was quite deliberate. Generally speaking women are by natureemotional and men are by nature more logical. The old Mars-Venus thing. Our female OC'ers are thankfully the exception to the rule.

A belief is an ideal that is held to be true even if evidence to the contrary exists. Beliefs are incredibly hard to change and in human beings it usually takes a "significant emotional event" to change a person's beliefs. Significant emotional events are things like births, deaths, marrianges, divorces, getting fired, being a victim of crime, inheriting large sums of money, etc.... Let's face it,that meeting will NOT be a significant emotional event for anyone, all it will potentially do is fuel one side or the other.

NOTHING you do or say that night will change their minds. But in an INSTANT, you can loet control, get angry or say the wrong thing giving them all the justification they need. Now, are you who are planning to attend that well versed in the law and disinformation of BOTH sides or that in control of your emotions to be able to confront such an assault? Seriously? Personal attacks aren't as easy to take as you might thing and they would LOVE to see someone carrying a gun get angry and lash out.

Guys, let's face it. We ALL like guns, so we're all automatically the enemy, (as some of you found out at the last meeting)so we're at a double loss there. I say that this is the time for any and all female Open Carriers to rally forth and contactTess and do everything possible to attend this meeting. Honestly, most women who carry have been through that significant emotional event that has changed their belief and perception forever and THEY ALONE are the best hope.

As for me? My wife is from Brasil where owning a gun is a government privilege and while not an "anti", she never liked guns at all. Yet a couple months ago she picked up my .45 from the coffee table and commented on how heavy it was. It was a HUGE step for her. Last night while cleaning my rifles, she picked up my .22 rifle and said the same thing. I showed her how to sight it and explained how it worked. I told her that it is the easiest rifle to shoot and she agreed to shoot with me.

What changed her? Seeing me open carrying responsibly day after day. Watching me take care of my guns, cleaning, piling and being responsible and teaching her above all that safety is paramount. She knows history and how we got here, so there's no need to go there. But more importantly she knows that Inever carried before I met her and it's as muchto protect her as anything. Why, because that's my job as her husband and as a man and dammit, there's nothing wrong with ibeing a man and protecting and defending what's mine. My wife, my family, myselfand our home.

One million moms can all tell me one million times that carrying a gun is wrong and it means absolutely nothing to me. But when just one woman, my beloved wife, tells me she understands why I carry and supports me and appreciates why I do what I do....well, folks that's all that matters in the world.
+1 -- Excellent Bob.
 

Mr. Y

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
485
Location
Super Secret Squirrel Bunker, Virginia, USA
imported post

<Devil's Advocate>

"I fully support the Constitution"

"I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment"

Both quotes are from Chuck Schumer. :shock: Seriously.

What I'm seeing is thatwe have a strong supporter of open carry. But I'm also seeing several reasons to not do it. Correct?

</Devil's Advocate>
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

Mr. Y wrote:
<Devil's Advocate>

"I fully support the Constitution"

"I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment"

Both quotes are from Chuck Schumer. :shock: Seriously.

What I'm seeing is thatwe have a strong supporter of open carry. But I'm also seeing several reasons to not do it. Correct?

</Devil's Advocate>

You know the saying... Out of sight, out of mind.

One the one hand... you have a group of good people that desire to OC and want to educate the public that it it legal in Virginia.

And then.. on the other hand... Your telling MMM supporters that there is a law out there allowing anyone to carry a gun in public. This law is useful for those that would need to OC in alcohol establishmentsto be legal... but this law will not be favored by anti gun people.

This is a law they will probably attack and attempt to get repealed or made more restrictive.

Just my thoughts on the matter....
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
Your telling MMM supporters that there is a law out there allowing anyone to carry a gun in public. This law is useful for those that would need to OC in alcohol establishmentsto be legal... but this law will not be favored by anti gun people.

This is a law they will probably attack and attempt to get repealed or made more restrictive.
The MMMs and pretty much everybody else knows that OC requires no permit - there has been so much press and discussion on open carry since VA went to full preemption in 2004. As a general rule, OCing in everyday life while staying low key and minding your own business and is hugely positive for gun rights in America.

Now, do I think it's best for people who OC to simply go about there business in "don't ask don't tell mode" just as if they were CCing (i.e., don't walk up to people and say "mind if I eat here while carrying this gun? or "Mind of I sit here while carrying this gun?"?) Yes.

Do I wish that people would re-consider use of shoulder rigs where the barrells swing about sweeping the public? Yes.

Do I think its best for folks intending to gain intelligence on the other side to do so as if they were conducting an intelligence operation (i.e., entering concealed or disarmed with hidden audio or video recorder (unless outlawed in a jurisdiction))? Yes.
 
Top