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Thread: Thread to Organize Lawsuit and/or Open Carry Walks

  1. #1
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    I will not participate in this thread, as I do not live in Wisconsin, but I thought somebody should start a separate thread where people interested in organizing and instituting a declaratory judgment action and/oropen carry walks can come together and discuss where to meet.

    Please refrain from debating the substance of the law in Wisconsin, as there are 999 other threads here where that is appropriate.

    Please refrain from taking potshots at Wisconsin gun groups, as there are 58 other threads here where that is appropriate.

    Rather, post here only if you are willingto pitch in and do something proactive to help the open carry cause in Wisconsin.

  2. #2
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    Just one question. Open carry is lawful in 43 states of the Union, why do you seem to have such a profound interest in Wisconsin?

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    Lammie wrote:
    Just one question. Open carry is lawful in 43 states of the Union, why do you seem to have such a profound interest in Wisconsin?
    No - 44 states, though we conservatively call Mississippi "inderterminate" just to be safe.

    In any event, open carry "walks" are not necessary nor always the best method - gun owners simply start OCing on foot in Wisconsin.

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    Lammie wrote:
    Just one question. Open carry is lawful in 43 states of the Union, why do you seem to have such a profound interest in Wisconsin?
    Lammie, I am sorry if my interest feels unwelcome, but I am bothered by the statements of some that there is no carry allowed in Wisconsin (mostly based on the assumption that a license from the state for concealed carry is the only carry that counts). Another difference between Wisconsin and the other states is that open carryis the only legal option for carry, unlike the other states.

    Nevertheless, there is a feeling, apparently unanimous, that people obeying the law in Wisconsin will nevertheless be seized by the government.

    It got my hackles up.

    Sorry for such a simple explanation for my motivations, but that is really all there is to it.

    If it makes you feel better, I (well, "we" ) are working actively on unlicensed open carry in Georgia.

    I hope that yoursis not a "butt out" post, as I really have no intention of interferingon this thread, since I am an outsider. I merely wanted to start a thread for people that desire to take decisive action to settle this issue in Wisconsin once and for all. I find it odd that such a thread is met with cautious suspicion of my motives rather than volunteers to the cause posting suggestions on an inaugural meeting date and location.

    I have no motives other than seeing Wisconsonites unafraid of their own localgovernment.

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    And, I should add, nobody is going to do it for you. The kind of people who posthere are the most likelyeven to care about showing up and getting something accomplished.



    Why wait?

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    My post was not intended to be a "butt out" post. The first ammendment to the constitution of the United States of America gives you every right to contribute to this subject. It is only through vigorous pro and con debate that the proper solution to any situationis derived. Being that you live 1000 miles away and are not a Wisconsin resident piqued my curiosity as to your motives. No insult or objection was intended.

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    Ok, thanks. With that, I will leave it to the people in Wisconsin to hopefully respond to the call to arms!

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    I'm not from Wisconsin either. However, I'm willing to drive up there from Illinois to participate in a open carry walk.

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    If you are frustrated with the lack of progress concerning open carry in Wisconsin imagine how I feel.

    If a person studies the firearm laws of the fifty states as I must do as a FFL holder it becomes apparent that the Wisconsin constitution, the state preemption statute, the State Supreme Court opinions in State v Hamdan and the attorney general's arguments during the Hamdan hearing all come together to define that Wisconsin has possibly the most liberal personal protection firearm laws in the country. The only condition is that the firearm can not be concealed. The Wisconsin laws are so liberal that they rival Vermont's and Alaska's. There is no licensing required, No background checks, no expensive training. There are only four places of prohibition, motor vehicles, places that sell liquor, goverment buildings and school zones.

    Yet in order to excercise their rights granted by Article 1 chapter 25 of our state constitution most people won't rely on the above information as authority to open carry. They wait for someone of authority to come out and flately say "open carry is legal in Wisconsin". That, of course, will not happen under normal circumstances. It will only happen if those person's of authority are forced to make an opinion. Unfortunately there aren't enough people on our side of the issue willing to call those authorities to task, even though most of those authorities are elected officials that we hire. I don't know why that attitude prevails. Some of it may be caused by the definition of a pioneer "the dude that lies dead in the dessert with an arrow in his back". Some of it may be because of the phoney fear of being charged with disorderly conduct. Some of it may be an inherent fear of angering authority. Some of it may be because most people are willing to sit back and let the other guy take the risk and then share in the glory. Probably all of those reasons combine to create a condition of no action.

    As I said before. My physical health prevents me from participating in a open carry walk but I have tried to contribute to the cause in other ways. I have written to my state representative. I have written a number of letters to my state senator. I have sent editorial comments to a number of newspapers. I have written to all three levels of authority in the DNR. I have sent a number of mails to the NRA. I have written to the State Attorney General Office. I have had numerous discussions with the Wisconsin Concealed Carrry Association. And of course you are aware of my activities on this forum. I have implored the other members of this forum to do as I have. It apparently has fallen on deaf ears because I have only heard a lot of talk but no action. Some members have simply been content with arguing fine points but refrain from offering any contructive sugesstions or get personally involved. It is only through applying massive pressure to people of authority that we can get precise opinions and changes to our firearm laws. It is absolutely true that the cliche "The squeaky wheel gets the most grease" applies to our cause.

    It is because of these frustrations That I am withdrawing my membership to this forum.




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    Lammie wrote:
    If you are frustrated with the lack of progress concerning open carry in Wisconsin imagine how I feel.

    If a person studies the firearm laws of the fifty states as I must do as a FFL holder it becomes apparent that the Wisconsin constitution, the state preemption statute, the State Supreme Court opinions in State v Hamdan and the attorney general's arguments during the Hamdan hearing all come together to define that Wisconsin has possibly the most liberal personal protection firearm laws in the country. The only condition is that the firearm can not be concealed. The Wisconsin laws are so liberal that they rival Vermont's and Alaska's. There is no licensing required, No background checks, no expensive training. There are only four places of prohibition, motor vehicles, places that sell liquor, goverment buildings and school zones.

    Yet in order to excercise their rights granted by Article 1 chapter 25 of our state constitution most people won't rely on the above information as authority to open carry. They wait for someone of authority to come out and flately say "open carry is legal in Wisconsin". That, of course, will not happen under normal circumstances. It will only happen if those person's of authority are forced to make an opinion. Unfortunately there aren't enough people on our side of the issue willing to call those authorities to task, even though most of those authorities are elected officials that we hire. I don't know why that attitude prevails. Some of it may be caused by the definition of a pioneer "the dude that lies dead in the dessert with an arrow in his back". Some of it may be because of the phoney fear of being charged with disorderly conduct. Some of it may be an inherent fear of angering authority. Some of it may be because most people are willing to sit back and let the other guy take the risk and then share in the glory. Probably all of those reasons combine to create a condition of no action.

    As I said before. My physical health prevents me from participating in a open carry walk but I have tried to contribute to the cause in other ways. I have written to my state representative. I have written a number of letters to my state senator. I have sent editorial comments to a number of newspapers. I have written to all three levels of authority in the DNR. I have sent a number of mails to the NRA. I have written to the State Attorney General Office. I have had numerous discussions with the Wisconsin Concealed Carrry Association. And of course you are aware of my activities on this forum. I have implored the other members of this forum to do as I have. It apparently has fallen on deaf ears because I have only heard a lot of talk but no action. Some members have simply been content with arguing fine points but refrain from offering any contructive sugesstions or get personally involved. It is only through applying massive pressure to people of authority that we can get precise opinions and changes to our firearm laws. It is absolutely true that the cliche "The squeaky wheel gets the most grease" applies to our cause.

    It is because of these frustrations That I am withdrawing my membership to this forum.


    Aw man, not another apjonas....


    Anyways. I'm trying to get OC on UW-Madison. See my thread there. Shotgun is/was organizing a walk, although I haven't heard anything lately from him. I'm trying to get in contact with him again (if you're reading this, check your pms).

    So its summer, and i'm living off campus, so its time to raise some hell, er i mean OC!

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    Lammie wrote:
    If you are frustrated with the lack of progress concerning open carry in Wisconsin imagine how I feel.
    . . .
    It will only happen if those person's of authority are forced to make an opinion.
    . . . but I have tried to contribute to the cause in other ways. . . . I have only heard a lot of talk but no action.
    So, you're in? It does not have to be an open carry walk.

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    Brigdh wrote:
    So its summer, and i'm living off campus, so its time to raise some hell, er i mean OC!
    Ok, so Lammie and Brigdh. Who else?

  13. #13
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    Lammie wrote:
    ...It is because of these frustrations That I am withdrawing my membership to this forum.

    You are eloquent, and I have no doubt accurate, and your departure would be a sad, sad, event.

    You have preciselyphrased my feeling about WI RKBAers with regards to open carry (of ANY kind) - all talk, no action.

    Count me in (with sufficient notice) for an open carry walk.


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    Lammie wrote:
    .....I don't know why that attitude prevails. Some of it may be caused by the definition of a pioneer "the dude that lies dead in the dessert with an arrow in his back". Some of it may be because of the phoney fear of being charged with disorderly conduct.
    I hope it was chocolate mousse!
    It is absolutely true that the cliche "The squeaky wheel gets the most grease" applies to our cause.
    Of course it is also true that the nail that sticks up gets hammered down.
    Brigdh said: Aw man, not another apjonas....

    Hey, I am still here on this thread. I will not argue with people who just don't want to know on the board but will continue to contribute on subjects of particular interest to me. Notice that I am not bringing up the "D.J. phrase" which would address the vast majority of the concerns. I am standing by with my checkbook if somebody steps forward.....


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    apjonas:

    No need to be facetious. Pardon my "s".

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    BB62 wrote:
    Count me in (with sufficient notice) for an open carry walk.

    Ok, so:

    Lammie

    Brigdh

    BB62

  17. #17
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    apjonas wrote:
    Notice that I am not bringing up the "D.J. phrase" which would address the vast majority of the concerns.
    apjonas, that was one of the options in the title of the thread. I will leave it to the people in Wisconsin to decide which would better suit their needs.

    I am kind of shocked that all of the Wisconsin people have not yet come clamoring forward to sign up to take action.

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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    BB62 wrote:
    Count me in (with sufficient notice) for an open carry walk.

    Ok, so:

    Lammie

    Brigdh

    BB62
    And I expect and equal (or preferably more) WI residents to commit to attending before I drive all the way there!

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    Come on, guys, somebody from Ohio just signed up! Spread the word and get some Wisconsin residents interested in this issue!

  20. #20
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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    Come on, guys, somebody from Ohio just signed up! Spread the word and get some Wisconsin residents interested in this issue!
    Enough notice and I will try to help out.

  21. #21
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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    Ok, so:

    Lammie

    Brigdh

    BB62 (OH)
    lockman (IL)
    Now you have two out of staters (Illinois and Ohio) and two residents of Wisconsin. Why do people out of state want this more than you do?

  22. #22
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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    Ok, so:

    Lammie

    Brigdh

    BB62 (OH)
    lockman (IL)
    Now you have two out of staters (Illinois and Ohio) and two residents of Wisconsin. Why do people out of state want this more than you do?
    I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but even a Wisconsinite has said, essentially, that WI people are not quite "right".

    Add to that the imperial attitude of the "team" which seems to exist in WI, and I think that pretty much answers the question.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=244569

    I'm not so sure we want it more than they do, but they seem to have much more faith in government than Ohioans for instance... "we just need to convince our overseers that we're safe, and that we'll behave ourselves". Nevermind the continuing victims who are being created by the legislature and the approach of the 'people'. WI=socialists=nanny state?

    MP - I wish I could get into their heads, because I absolutely know that 2 plus 2 equals 4, and that the same cast of political players is going to deliver to WI what it already has - unless some part of the equation changes. I know you, Iand other out of staters are trying to get them to change some part of the equation, but I think it's a hopeless cause.

    WI people - call me when you're serious, and may the master's whip lay softly on your back.



    BB62

  23. #23
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    I'm definitely in, and I can confidently say my girlfriend is too.





    "A very popular error: having the courage of one's convictions; rather it is a matter of having the courage for an attack on one's convictions." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  24. #24
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    I can't understand the hesitancy after the Wisconsin people passed a very detailed RKBA State Constitutional Amendment.

    What else could that clause possibly mean, if not that you can own and openlycarry a firearm?


    Right to keep and bear arms.
    SECTION 25. [As created

    Nov. 1998
    ] The people have the right to keep and bear arms for

    security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose.

    [
    1995 J.R. 27, 1997 J.R. 21, vote November 1998]

    The state constitutional right to bear arms is fundamental, but it is not absolute.

    This section does not affect the reasonable regulation of guns. The standard of

    review for challenges to statutes allegedly in violation of this section is whether the

    statute is a reasonable exercise of police power. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264

    Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328, 01−0350.

    The concealed weapons statute is a restriction on the manner in which firearms

    are possessed and used. It is constitutional under Art. I, s. 25. Only if the public

    benefit in the exercise of the police power is substantially outweighed by an individual’s

    need to conceal a weapon in the exercise of the right to bear arms will an

    otherwise valid restriction on that right be unconstitutional. The right to keep and

    bear arms for security, as a general matter, must permit a person to possess, carry,

    39 05−06 Wis. Stats.
     
      
      

    Updated through February 15, 2007

    and sometimes conceal arms to maintain the security of a private residence or privately

    operated business, and to safely move and store weapons within those premises.

    State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785, 01−0056.

  25. #25
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    I don't know JSK333, it seems pretty clear, doesn't it?
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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