MMM meeting report

imported post

Hawkflyer wrote:

possumboy wrote:

BobCav wrote:

REMEMBER: YOU CANNOT CHANGE ANYONE BUT YOURSELF.

Knowing that,do NOT go there thinking that you will convert even a single one. that will be your undoing. Just be respectful, knowledgeable, cool-headed and polite. You will completely rock their stereotype and THAT is what will plant the seeds of change in them.

Remember, the best way to disarm ANYONE is with a smile!

Click to expand...

Bob - I think this is really what this site started out as. A forum for us that OC everyday and the encounters we have. To help use track where and when we could and develop encounter strategies.

My wife has told me that your friends are asking about using guns for protection now. One of the reason is: "Every time we see your husband outside of school, he is carry a gun. At first it scared us, but now we see how someone responsible could make a difference if they had a gun too."

Setting good example and showing that it is just another tool you use to protect your family goes a long way. Too many people focus on the gun. I lock my doors and windows in the house, make sure everyone is buckled. Keep the kids in eyesight at stores; don't let them play in the roads. Medications and cleaning solutions (I have even switch to a different cleaner that is works and is basically child/environment safe) are out of reach. I'm very active in the "Green" front. That is a short list of what I do, but everyone focuses on the gun.

Carrying is just logical to me. It gives me a way to deal with an attack on my family or me. I don't see it as a sign of power, I do see it has a sign of freedom, but that is another conversation all together.

Click to expand...

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. But that is the moderate homo sapiens sapiens view. I think when the concept is taken to extremes is where the problem comes in.

In the instant case, we all know where the MMM weighs in on firearms rights. Set aside the fact that the venue and the open meeting made carry legal for just a moment.

Click to expand...

Agreed, I guess I should have added that we need to OC more in everyday where these people can see us and either learn to accept it, or decide that we might not be that bad after all.

Read a lot handout, websites, and quotes, BB/MMM try to make us seem like dievants against society. I often get a picture of my family from the hills of Southwestern VA - no offense Mr. Pierce, but you are near the big city of Bristol. These are the people that wear the same clothes for days, have the Rebel flags on their trucks, and yes, sometimes go around without shoes because they ain't workin' and see no need fo' it.

Everyday OC normallizes the experience for everyone involved. If these MMM folks saw someone OC everyday, they would not be on such an edge. If they realized how many people actually carry concealed and open in VA, and the lack of "blood baths and Wild West Shootouts" some may start to understand.

I don't believe many of those will ever start carrying or be in support of less gun-control, but it will help keep us from having police called on us for dinner. Maybe we would not have to know so much about detainment and arrest. I don't think I would want to know less, but it would be nice to walk out of Wal-Mart, see a LEO, and not be thinking of what I did - because it is always about me.

I'm not trying to convert, I have no plans on conversion. I just want to be allowed to do what I'm willing to do, to protect my family. If they are not ready to add another tool, fine, just let me keep my gun, in my toolbox.

Also, I have been at the libraries during MMM meetings before. I was there with my kids and just never chose to say or do anything involving them. All I tell my children is that thier meeting is what is so great about this country. People fought and won the right. That is why we send letters to the soldiers and marines in the Middle East, and that is why you say thank you to veterns. Because no matter how much they disagree with you, you can still say what you want, and they can say what they want.

The sad thing is, your trying to teach you kids something that you feel is important, and they just say "OK, Dad" and run off to the next shiney object.

imported post

Mike wrote:

UPDATE:

1. I just called the Million Mom March of Northern Virginia's POC Terry Hartnett - Terry said no MMM personnel weremean to anyobdy or ordered filming to stop "that she knew of."

Click to expand...

That's all semantics Mike. True, she never ordered it to STOP because they never let it START.

imported post

I went to the MMM website and they have this link http://www.kidsandguns.org/study/states_deaths.asp?North+Carolina

Which shows that gun deaths among juveniles has gone down signinficantly. Guess they didn't know it shows that.

You know something funny? I was in DC the day they stormed Washington in 2000. I didn't even know what was going on because I was just visiting friends. The moment I walked by the stage, I saw Rosie O'donnell in all 300lbs of her glory and asked the folks near me what this was about. They said, "it's the MMM. We're here to protest guns" period. No strong motive, nothingmore significant. Just here to protest guns. Iwalked around the crowd and kept asking people the same question and got several different answers, but the one I got the most was, "we're here to see Rosie." I found it funny that she was escorted off stage by what seemed to be bodyguards. I have always wondered if, in the spirit of this protest against guns, Rosies guards were armed with not but their wit and wangs. You think?

BTW, I can't seem to find any meetings here in the Charlotte area. If anyone knows more about this, please let me know as I am getting tired of you Virginia boys (and gals) having all the fun. Don't make me use the bannana!

imported post

Hawkflyer wrote:

If you look at all this from their point of view, the VCDL presence at their meeting was excessive and it was frightening. From what I have read, if the armed citizens did not outnumber them, it was close. So how would they see such a presence of armed strangers that virtually took over their meeting, and certainly had an impact on the evenings agenda?

Now I know I will hear all about how open VCDL would have been if the situation were reversed. But suppose 25 off duty BATFE agents showed up at a normal VCDL meeting wearing guns and BATF hats, filed into the room and said nothing about why they were there? Suppose they started milling around with cameras taking pictures of people and close-ups of the firearms. Gee, do you think this forum would have remained quiet that night?

Many here say repeatedly that any fear others have, or any angst they may feel toward a person carrying is their problem. I would agree with that view if three or four armed citizens just happened to show up at a MMM meeting. Or someone is just going about their normal daily routine. But that is not what happened here. Clearly some people went there with the specific intent of "getting in their face" on the gun issue. The meeting was political because that is what the MMM is about, and the attendance by armed citizens had a political, not a routine informational purpose. It would be amazing to me if most here did not know very well what the reaction would be.

Without putting words in his mouth, I think the point BobCav was trying to make is that you are NOT going to convert a person who cannot hear your message, either through blind ignorance or fear and anger. Clearly, many at that meeting were not ready to hear the message, and any that were would have been inhibited by peer pressure at the actual meeting.

Click to expand...

I agree with this very point of view. Which is why I decided after reading the reports of the MMM meeting this week that when I walk into the meeting on 6/4, I will be unarmed. Because I have no intentions of appearing to take over the meeting. In fact, one positive thing I have going for me is that I have only been to a few VCDL and OCDO events. So, my face is relatively unknown, except to a few people. This way, I can go to the meeting and just "blend in".

My intention in going to this meeting is not to appear hostile or put it in their face. That wouldn't accomplish anything. My intention, is to learn what they're saying. Learn what this speaker has to say. The best way to counter an argument is to know the argument first. If I show up armed or wearing pro-gun attire, it's going to set a negative mood.

I think it would be far more effective if the entire group showed up unarmed and just blend in and disperse throughout the room. The organization would not immediately go on the defensive. People would be permitted to speak and help to dispell some of the lies or half-truths in a peaceful manner. Of course, it's not effective to do it with brute force because then the speaker and organizers will immediately go on the defensive. Once they're in a defensive mode, all efforts are moot.

So, enough about that...on another topic. I think the MMM group felt that VCDL was attacking them. The fact is this was not a VCDL sanctioned get together. It just so happened that several of the pro-rights citizens that showed up happened to be VCDL members. It didn't help that the audience was asked who the VCDL members were. I think this was an inappropriate question, given the scenerio and circumstances. It didn't matter who in the audience were VCDL members.

imported post

http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/mmm/

This is excellent, for those of you who like to arm yourselves with knowledge.

imported post

vrwmiller wrote:

I think it would be far more effective if the entire group showed up unarmed and just blend in and disperse throughout the room..... Once they're in a defensive mode, all efforts are moot.

Click to expand...

This is just basic common sense. The pro-gun/rights group that went to the MMM meeting could only be perceived as trying to disrupt the meeting and provoke a confrontation. (Even if, as I'm sure was the case, some individuals had no such intention.) Common sense is often hard to derive from ideologal groups.


vrwmiller wrote:

I think the MMM group felt that VCDL was attacking them. The fact is this was not a VCDL sanctioned get together. It just so happened that several of the pro-rights citizens that showed up happened to be VCDL members. It didn't help that the audience was asked who the VCDL members were. I think this was an inappropriate question, given the scenerio and circumstances. It didn't matter who in the audience were VCDL members.

Click to expand...

Oh yes it did. It mattered very much. And they fell right into the trap. Common sense is often hard to derive from ideologal groups.

imported post

vrwmiller wrote:

I think it would be far more effective if the entire group showed up unarmed and just blend in and disperse throughout the room. The organization would not immediately go on the defensive. People would be permitted to speak and help to dispell some of the lies or half-truths in a peaceful manner.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I won't go unarmed.

I will, however, conceal. Concealed means concealed. And I will NOT respond to her question(s) when she asks who is armed or who is a VCDL member.

imported post

Tess wrote:

vrwmiller wrote:

I think it would be far more effective if the entire group showed up unarmed and just blend in and disperse throughout the room.  The organization would not immediately go on the defensive.  People would be permitted to speak and help to dispell some of the lies or half-truths in a peaceful manner.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I won't go unarmed.

I will, however, conceal.  Concealed means concealed.  And I will NOT respond to her question(s) when she asks who is armed or who is a VCDL member.

Click to expand...

You would be correct on both counts. It is no ones business what other organizations you belong to.

Regards

imported post

I very recently registered on OC; although, I have read the posts (and enjoyed them) for quite some time. I've had a Virginia permitsince 1995 and havecarried concealedexclusively.Since the VCDL drawing, I have OCed a couple of times. My question is, and I defer to the veteran OCers, if the MMMers saw you OC at their first meeting and not at the second meeting, then will they interpret that as a sign of weakness?Don't get me wrong, I think you should carry as you wish.

imported post

I searched youtube.com for a video of MMM Laura and Rosie O'Donnellperforming the famous "crotch press" but alas, I'm empty handed.

I'll just have to picture Laura using industrial adhesive to wax her sack-o-marbles-esque thighs. Ever seen sea lions mate? No? Just check thelocal pool where she swims to see an accurate representation in her cheeks banging together.

imported post

Tess wrote:

vrwmiller wrote:

I think it would be far more effective if the entire group showed up unarmed and just blend in and disperse throughout the room. The organization would not immediately go on the defensive. People would be permitted to speak and help to dispell some of the lies or half-truths in a peaceful manner.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I won't go unarmed.

I will, however, conceal. Concealed means concealed. And I will NOT respond to her question(s) when she asks who is armed or who is a VCDL member.

Click to expand...

I do not disagree with going concealed. Better safe than sorry.

imported post

Forty-five wrote:

My question is, and I defer to the veteran OCers, if the MMMers saw you OC at their first meeting and not at the second meeting, then will they interpret that as a sign of weakness?Don't get me wrong, I think you should carry as you wish.

Click to expand...

Naww. Even if they do, their next thought will be that they can't remember for sure who OC'd last time. There is going to be some head-scratching and thinking, "Was he here last time? He seems familiar, but.."

Also, it'll be harder for Bob Ricker to get traction when trying to use us to make his points. There will be no guns for prospective recruits to lock their attention on as he comes across with whatever point.

Essentially we make ourselves harder targets to hit. Nothing like vagueness to mess up their aim. MMM: "Are there five VCDL's here tonite, or 15?"

Besides, couldn't really care less. The real question iswhether it forwards our ability to undermine their recruiting effort. The hard-core MMM'ers aren't likely to change their position regardless of our carry mode. Its the prospective recruits we want to show that MMM presents half-truths, out-context material, etc.

imported post

We could have members constantly coming and going in and out of the library, changing out throughout their whole meeting. That would REALLY mess them up. They'd be wondering what the hell we were doing and lost their tiny little train of thought!

Come in, look around, make a few notes, whisper something to another member and leave. Have the next one do the same thing! lol...

imported post

Great idea. Just has to be done in a way that doesn' turn prospective recruits against us. Remember, prospective recurits must have some agreement with MMM goals or they wouldn't be there.

imported post

BobCav wrote:

We could have members constantly coming and going in and out of the library, changing out throughout their whole meeting.  That would REALLY mess them up.  They'd be wondering what the hell we were doing and lost their tiny little train of thought!

Come in, look around, make a few notes, whisper something to another member and leave.  Have the next one do the same thing!  lol...

Click to expand...

BobCav, you are "Everything we have come to expect from years of government training." - Zed from Men in Black":lol:

Regards

imported post

Hey! I just had a great idea. But I can't post it in case MMM is monitoring the board.

You going, BobCav? I want to PM you and then maybe circulate the PM among the known good guys.

Sorry, newbies.

imported post

Am I a newbie?

imported post

I hate being out of the loop, even though I wouldn't be able to attend anyway.

imported post

Citizen wrote:

Hey! I just had a great idea. But I can't post it in case MMM is monitoring the board.

You going, BobCav? I want to PM you and then maybe circulate the PM among the known good guys.

Click to expand...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B0000040V4001002/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_002/104-9328243-3441556


http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/mission-impossible.wav

imported post

I don't see any problem coming unarmed, armed, OC, or concealed, provided the person is a respectful attendee. They are the ones holding a public meeting.

I might attend unarmed and in shorts& T-Shirt, just because if given a chance to speak by the MMMs, I want them listening to me and not looking at my gun.