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State Capitol Ban

REB

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No because the law does not give the Governor the authority to issue you a qualified permit. The law does give the sheriff this authority.

I should make it clear that this strictly applies to where you can carry concealed under your qualified permit. Nothing in the law gives the sheriff the power to regulate open carry.

As I stated before in this thread the restriction of no open carry would not stand up in court but most of the other restrictions probably would.
 

eye95

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Outright banning CC in some locations by the sheriff is not a "qualification." It is a change in the law.

If the sheriff, after consideration of an individual case put a restriction on one particular license, that would be a qualification. But, arbitrarily telling every permit holder that they cannot carry in a McDonald's, for example, would be legislating from the sheriff's office.
 

REB

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That is your opinion, unfortunately the AG has a different opinion.
 

AL Ranger

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What is the AG's opinion in the matter of a place like McDonald's? My understanding is that law enforcement can't keep you out, but if McDonald's asks you to leave or puts a sign on the door saying "no weapons allowed" then the OC citizen must leave the premises.
 

Brimstone Baritone

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If you are asked to leave by someone with the authority to do so (usually a manager) you must leave or be guilty of trespassing. In Alabama, for now at least, signs do not carry the force of law. Even if it is posted "No guns allowed" you are still not trespassing unless specifically asked to leave.

Other than that, all AG opinions I have seen support open carry.
 

eye95

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REB wrote:
That is your opinion, unfortunately the AG has a different opinion.
The AG's opinion did not discuss barring, by a sheriff, carry in locations not barred by state law. It talked about his ability to set the fee for the license.

Here is another significant difference between setting a fee or a unique qualification for a specific individual and creating a sheriff's on bar on carry at some location: How would this affect other counties?

Let's say sheriff of county A bars carry at McDonald's. Can a person from county A carry at a McDonald's in county B? How about a person from county B (whose license mentions no ban at McDonald's on his license)? Can he carry at a McDonald's in county A?

A county sheriff changing a statewide law would create confusion--the same confusion preemption is designed to prevent. Unless you can establish that this is specifically what is meant by "qualified," I still see nothing in the law or any opinion of court or AG that says a sheriff can change where one is permitted by law to CC.
 

REB

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Maybe I am assuming that people know how to pull up these opinions and read them. 81-00044 clearly says the sheriff may restrict where and what you carry concealed on a qualified permit.

Like I have also stated this applies strictly to your concealed permit not open carry.

Some sheriffs put some thought into these restrictions other have printed the same thing for 20 years or more. I wish I could find one of my old permits.

Some restrictions like no open carry probably wont stand up in court.

All AG opinions are available on line. http://www.ago.state.al.us/opinion_search.cfm
 

AL Ranger

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Thanks, Reb. I've been reading so much "legalese" the past few days my mind is a little bit of a fog, but you can be sure I'll get to reading them. Thanks for the links!
 

eye95

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REB wrote:
Maybe I am assuming that people know how to pull up these opinions and read them. 81-00044 clearly says the sheriff may restrict where and what you carry concealed on a qualified permit.
Once again, that opinion predates preemption. The purpose of preemption is to avoid having a checkerboard of rules all over the State that would be virtually impossible to know and follow.

Maybe I am assuming that since we agree on that opinion being pre-preemption, that we'd agree on it not applying.

Any other snark on your part about what you are assuming about others forthcoming? If so, I'll just move on. I don't participate in discussions with people who make passive-aggressive remarks like that.
 

eye95

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AL Ranger wrote:
Thanks, Reb. I've been reading so much "legalese" the past few days my mind is a little bit of a fog, but you can be sure I'll get to reading them. Thanks for the links!
Make sure you get the full picture. Some of these opinions are old and don't consider the possible impact of later changes to the law.
 

AL Ranger

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Not a problem. I was just discussing the effect the "Castle Doctrine Law" will have on CWPs since the law now states you have the right to protect yourself in your car, but you can't legally carry in your car without a CWP. Almost turns Alabama into a "shall issue" state as opposed to the current "may issue" state.
 

Brimstone Baritone

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eye95 wrote:
AL Ranger wrote:
Thanks, Reb. I've been reading so much "legalese" the past few days my mind is a little bit of a fog, but you can be sure I'll get to reading them. Thanks for the links!
Make sure you get the full picture. Some of these opinions are old and don't consider the possible impact of later changes to the law.
Yeah. I was a bit put off by reading that a permit holder is restricted to only one concealed weapon. I'm hoping that was later changed or struck down.
 

Brimstone Baritone

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ETA: Sorry for the double post. :cry:

AL Ranger wrote:
Not a problem. I was just discussing the effect the "Castle Doctrine Law" will have on CWPs since the law now states you have the right to protect yourself in your car, but you can't legally carry in your car without a CWP. Almost turns Alabama into a "shall issue" state as opposed to the current "may issue" state.
The only Castle Law that I know of is part of the self-defense law:
Ala. Code 13A-3-23(b): "A person who is justified under subsection (a) in using physical force, including deadly physical force, and who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and is in any place where he or she has the right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground."

Since carrying in your car without a permit is an 'unlawful activity' I would assume your legal defense would be shaky, at best. If there is another Castle Doctrine for Alabama that I am not aware of, can you please post it?
 

AL Ranger

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I haven't read the law as written only the news reports from TV. The Castle Doctrine Law (passed in 2006) was set-up so that people in their homes and cars no longer had to "run and hide" when confronted by an intruder. It recognizes a citizens right to self-defense in their home or vehicle.

While current law states that carrying a weapon in the car is legal only with a CWP, the new law seems to set getting a CWP a little easier. I can carry concealed in my house without a permit. The Castle Doctrine law may make getting a CWP easier so you can protect yourself in your car. Or, it may allow for a change in the law, that you can carry concealed in your car without a CWP. But, the last one would have to be challenged in court.
 

REB

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eye95 wrote:
REB wrote:
Maybe I am assuming that people know how to pull up these opinions and read them. 81-00044 clearly says the sheriff may restrict where and what you carry concealed on a qualified permit.
Once again, that opinion predates preemption. The purpose of preemption is to avoid having a checkerboard of rules all over the State that would be virtually impossible to know and follow.

Maybe I am assuming that since we agree on that opinion being pre-preemption, that we'd agree on it not applying.

Any other snark on your part about what you are assuming about others forthcoming? If so, I'll just move on. I don't participate in discussions with people who make passive-aggressive remarks like that.

I have clearly shown you where preemption did not remove this power from the sheriff.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Fortunately the sheriff doesn't appear to have the funds for a qualified permit,
so just has the restrictions on the back of unrestricted ones just to keep
the lawyers able to put food on the table I would guess.

Hollowpoint38: It is either a gift, or a curse as my wife puts it.:cool:
Nope first offense, law was just passed so it wasn't even a primary offense.
But when you explain to a racist cop while smiling at his attempt to intimidate......
My gift works on police, secret service, MP, judges, and other authority figures.
They just can't handle the truth and someone who will tell the]m to there face with a smile.
But it wasn't my local sheriff, so who knows how he feals about his own
arresting someone. Haven't tried on a president yet, no one will accompany me to
the white house for fear the pres will be in the same room, and they get caught up.

It is the main reason I will never notify up front, I have to many cases of telling the
truth aggrivating the man. Biggest drawback of OC is they can tell pretty quickly.:lol:
 

eye95

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REB wrote:
eye95 wrote:
REB wrote:
Maybe I am assuming that people know how to pull up these opinions and read them. 81-00044 clearly says the sheriff may restrict where and what you carry concealed on a qualified permit.
Once again, that opinion predates preemption. The purpose of preemption is to avoid having a checkerboard of rules all over the State that would be virtually impossible to know and follow.

Maybe I am assuming that since we agree on that opinion being pre-preemption, that we'd agree on it not applying.

Any other snark on your part about what you are assuming about others forthcoming? If so, I'll just move on. I don't participate in discussions with people who make passive-aggressive remarks like that.

I have clearly shown you where preemption did not remove this power from the sheriff.
No, you showed me that preemption does not stop them from charging what they will for permits. I clearly pointed that out.

Now, I am clearly moving on. Try clearly being snarky with others.
 

aadvark

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If your Pistol Permit says no Carry in certain Locations or under certain instances, then, this regulation only applies to Concealed Carry itself.

Under Law, Alabama is a 'May Issue State', not 'Shall Issue State', in light of Pistol Permits throughout The State. Sheriff's issue Limited or Unlimited Qualifying Licenses to applicants who are eligible to have Pistols, per Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-72. The restrictions on these Pistol Permits, should your Local Sheriff put any there, only apply to what that License is for, Concealed Carry. Open Carry can not be regulated by your Local Sheriff's Office at all, and in fact, Open Carry of a Handgun, assuming you are not a Person ineligible under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-72, is only Illegal at:

1. Public Demonstrations, under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-59, and

2. Public Schools, with Intent wherefore, under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-72(c), however; Pistol Permits exempt you from this Law per State and Federal Law, 13A-11-72(e) and 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii).

However, Open Carry is Legal, per Alabama Codes 1975 13A-11-73, which overrides 13A-11-52, and 11-45-1.1 in every other Public Place in Alabama, which arguably, although not pratical, includes: Jails, Prisons, Airports, Courthouses, Police Departments, DMV's, etc.

Open Carry is not Disorderly Conduct, per Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-7. The Courts in Alabama have held it so, as Firearms are a Fundamental Right that Americans have.

Therefore, in any Public Building, even in the County of your Pistol Permit, you can Open Carry, with or without a Pistol Permit, however; you may not Conceal Carry while there if this action would Violate the rules of your Pistol Permit.

Furthermore, unless the Owner of an establishment specifcally says otherwise, Open Carry is Legal in every Private Business Open to the Public throughout Alabama. This includes: Bars and Restaurants that serve Alcohol. Failure to leave when asked, although not amounting to a Firearm-related charge, could well be held to be Tresspassing, per Alabama code 1975 13A-7-4, which is held to be a Violation, punishable by 30 days in your Local Jail.

Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-73 nullifies Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-52, although there are some Law Enforcement Officers thourghout Alabama who disagree, and holds it as bad Law. The Courts have held that the later does begin with the phrase, 'Except as otherwise provided in this Article...', and the former makes good on that exception, so the former being a complete revision of the subject matter overrides the later, in its entireity.

Remeber though, if you:

1. Carry a Pistol concealed on your Person, or

2. Carry a Pistol in your Vehicle, then,

you will need a Valid Pistol Permit, or one of another State that holds reciprocity with Alabama, per Alabama Laws 1975 13A-11-73 and 13A-11-85.
 

Brimstone Baritone

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That was a great post! Thanks for saying all that better than I ever thought to try.

Open Carry is not Disorderly Conduct, per Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-7. The Courts in Alabama have held it so, as Firearms are a Fundamental Right that Americans have.
Can you cite a case or court decision? This would be great information to have in writing.
 
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